How do I get better?

[fatt-dad]

Dear NG,

I have had several teachers, play about twice a month with some other pickers, try to put my fingers on the strings daily, and continue to learn from tab various tunes that I enjoy playing on the front porch. My problem is when I'm with other people, they seem so much better then I am. I see the other guys, noodling notes with the chord progressions, unaffected by the tempo, meanwhile, all I can do is hope for the right chord. Just thinking about jumping off a chord and into noting freaks me out.

So, I found (love it) tabedit files and various exercizes on mandozine (love it also). There are various hot licks, scale exercizes, etc. Is this the path to enlighenment? Is it DNA? Will I always have the handicap of apprehension, knowing full well that the gene is not with me? Is it old age (next year AARP will find me so I'm told)? I have to continue to learn new things whether for the front porch or hopefully to play with others. Right now, I can note pretty well at my tempo, but forget it when the 5-stinged instrument is in the room - even the old fiddle players smoke me.

I ramble on. I would really appreciate it if some of the confident would tell me, how to I go from playing pentatonic scales and chop chords to fitting it all together. Feel free to let me know the exercizes that I should focus on.

fatt-dad

[August Watters]

Just thinking about jumping off a chord and into noting freaks me out.

Are you practicing arpeggios? Arpeggios are the common ground between playing chords and single-note lines. After all, arpeggios are nothing more than chords played one note at a time!

Good luck!

August W

[steve in tampa]

Play along with the radio, change stations on occasion, and play along with the commercials if you can!
Practice listening as much or more than the playing.

[fatt-dad]

Mr. Watters,

Thank you for using the word arpeggio in your post 'cause now I know how to spell it - ha. Here is a practice link that I saw http://www.mandozine.com/techniques/arpeggios.php

Are these the exercizes you have in mind? I also found some tabedit files for arpeggios in various keys, so for the key of A there would be an arpeggio for A, Aminor, A whatever. For learning to noodle in a jam, would I just want to simplify and stick with the major chord arpeggios? I do worry about getting too many good ideas and then become paralized - ha again.

Thanks for your help.

fatt-dad.

[TheNaivePicker]

...Drink ALOT of Coffee and get inspired.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif ...Hey It works for me! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[John Flynn]

Fatt-dad:

After playing fretted instruments for 30 years, I had a musical "epiphany" the very year that AARP found me. I was struggling with exercises and practice rountines, trying to get off a plateau I had been on for about 10 years. I went through my share of books and instructors. Then I tried something completely different. If this story helps you, fine, if not, it's just another post on the big board, signifying nothing.

I decided I would set aside my quest to "get better" and just play for maximum fun. My goal would be to make music I liked with people I liked, with no concern for how "good" I was on any objective scale. In my case, I found an instructor who, unlike the others, did not teach theory or technique. I actually think I knew more than he did in those areas. What he did do is turn me on to a whole genre of music I had no previous knowledge or interest in. He got me excited about it, taught me a "starter set" of about 40 tunes in it, and he turned me on to the great players and thier CDs in the genre. He also got me started jamming and performing in the genre.

The result is that I am having more fun playing than I had in the rest of the 30 years I have been at it. Surprisingly, my technique and knowledge of theory have actually increased dramatically, despite the fact that I have not concentrated on technique and theory at all. In my case, the type of music was old-time string band music, but I think the same dynamic could work with any kind of music. It is the desire created by the pure enjoyment that is the key. My advice: find a kind of music that you can really learn to like. Be open to the possibility that it may not be the kind you are currently listening to or playing. Then "go deep" in it. Learn about it, listen to it, take lessons in it, go to jams around it, etc.

[fatt-dad]

MandoJohnny,

I like your story. I too love playing the old-time tunes. I do a fairly adequate job noting and chording along. Perhaps I have too deep of roots in listening to jazz and not so much bluegrass. I really do appreciate bluegrass improvisation and feel incredible parallels between the spirit of bluegrass improv and jazz improv. I am paralized by not having a brotherhood of players to jam with (the true catalist for improv) and continue to love playing on the front porch, learning new songs, such as Jerusalem Ridge, Ragtime Annie and Dry and Dusty recently. What I am striving for is the basic tools to develop an expanded ear to get a framework for improv. I have had the instructors tell me about the root, forth and fifth chords. I can note the penatonic scales, I have studied music for the best part of my life, but feel something is missing. I also feel that my practice routine is not leading me to my objectives (whatever they are). I do like the idea of the arpeggios, and feel that they may lead me somewhere. I also have some book-CD sets that show some fretboard exercizes.

Oh well, I ramble. I like your approach. And, I doubt your words are lost on the big board - at least not by me. Tell me how you find your new tunes, are are you keeping your 40 in performance-ready shape, being enough to keep you busy?

fatt-dad

[mandorado]

Great advice mando johnny ... you must be from Missouri.

[August Watters]

Here is a practice link that I saw:
http://www.mandozine.com/techniques/arpeggios.php
Are these the exercizes you have in mind? #

Those are good exercises -- but I think it's more straightforward to approach them:
1) in open position first; and
2) from the root, up to the highest note in open (first) position, back down to the bottom, and up again. I wouldn't apply more complicated up-and-down patterns such as the one used in this link, until later.

The easiest way to make these musical, and get them into your playing, is to apply the steps above to any song, one chord at a time. Then when you can do arpeggios to all the chords that occur in the song separately, try playing the arpeggios along with the song. When you get to a new chord, don't start the pattern over from the new root -- instead, move to the nearest note in the new arpeggio, and keep going the same direction. If this is too much at first, limit it to only 2 or 3 courses at once, instead of all 4.

This process will help you to recognize the arpeggios fast enough to use them in a song. Pretty soon you'll see all the patterns repeat. That's a great thing about the mandolin!

Hope this helps.

August W

[fatt-dad]

Thanks all. I tried to work through the arpeggio exercizes on the link that I referenced, and they were pretty tough (not that that's bad). I will look for the open arpeggios and try the easier method first - thanks again.

fatt-dad

[Coy Wylie]

One thing I have found very helpful is to get with another muscian who is about where you are in the learning process. In my case, I have a guitar-flatpicking friend who wants to learn the old fiddle tunes. We each bought the same book of tunes and are working our way through it together. We get together two or three times each week and go back and forth playing the tunes and noodling up variations. We start slow and then build speed. Knowing we are going to play together motivates my practice time in between.

If you can't find a partner, you might try recording your own background "jam track" with a guitar rythmn or getting a CD set with background tracks like Kaufman's 4 hour workout series. Play the track and noodle through the scales and licks. It will come together.

I had the same experience a few years ago learning to play blues guitar. After a while, it all jelled. I'm hoping the same thing will happen for both you and me on mando.

I've been reading the "Bill Monroe Reader" by Tom Ewing. I came across a passage the other day where Big Mon was giving advice to aspiring mando players. To paraphrase, he said, "Just play everyday, each day will build on the next. Don't try to play exactly like someone else. Just keep playing and you will develop your own style." I like that.

Good luck. Too bad about the Old Wave. Neither of us got it.

[fatt-dad]

Willard,

I just saw an old wave on ebay for around $2100.00, but for now I am focused on my playing. That said, I placed a bid on an Aria M-900, but the seller ended the auction early, so fate cured MAS - ha.

f-d

[Doc]

Yeah Buddy! You'll practice yer ears off and never get any better till you start playing regularly with friends who share the same musical interests and abilities as yourself. It's such a blessing to have that, and you may need to travel aways to find it, but I know you can. If you get with some folks who don't quite see it the way you do, or vice versa, ya'll are just wasting time and creating a divide rather than a union. There's also that old thing called pride that can ruin a good union and it can be inevitable when someone puts themselves ahead of the gang. Just some ramblin' thoughts to ponder.

[mandoanon]

F-D, I am not sure what you are looking for, but there is a good Cafe article, #Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/improv.html)

Hope that helps.

[John Flynn]

Tell me how you find your new tunes, are are you keeping your 40 in performance-ready shape, being enough to keep you busy?
I find new tunes all different places. Probably my main source is my instructor, Curtis Buckhannon, who by the way is not the same instructor I described above, who turned me on to old time. Curtis seems to be a walking repository of little known, but really cool, old-time tunes. Also, I am in a string band with some great players. They bring a lot of tunes to the party. I get a lot from jams, where I always bring my mini-disc and mike. Also, I get a lot of the "Old-time..." section of the board here. There have been some great threads on tunes. When I find one that peaks my curiousity, I try to find a someone who can teach it to me, a recording of it, sheet music, etc.

As far as keeping the tune list maintained, that has gotten tough. When it was only 40, with that first instructor, I would actually go through at least once a week and play every one, just a couple of times through. Now the list is over 100 and I am having to spend most of my practice time learning even more tunes for lessons or gigs, even through I love doing that, don't get me wrong. So the list is pretty bad shape now. I will get a reprieve later this Summer and I have "resolution" to go through my old mini-discs and brush up on each tune and then make a recording of myself doing each one for refererece. We'll see if I actually do that or not. One detractor is I don't want to concentrate on quantity. There is somewhat of a natural selection process. The really great tunes I never seem to forget.

[Scotti Adams]

..practice and strive to surround yourself with capable players...

[fatt-dad]

Mando Johnny,

I love a project like that, whether you get it done or not, it is ambitious and can worthwhile. I often start to play and out of the ether comes a tune I learned years (decades ago), I have thought about the same, but I'm sure my list is shorter.

Regarding the link from mandoanon, I have not tried it yet but thanks for the resource. As time allows, I will get there.

Thanks all - great inspiretion!

fatt-dad

[levin4now]

fatt-dadd,

Same problem here but I am probably behind you on the ol learning curve. Very frustrating, but some good advice here! I've just been expecting a little stronger increase in ability which I certainly haven't felt and am getting quite frustrated with it! Problem is: 'life' has been so busy that i've had less time to pick it up and when i do, it's not very focused.....

[jamesrenz]

If you have spent most of your life studying music, and are grounded in jazz, then you should have all of the musical concepts you need to play this music, and then some, and so are already far ahead of the game. The technical skill will come with time. It is progressive, as you know. Why don't you look for some picking festivals in your region? That way you can listen to many different players using a variety of approaches, and you can try out what you're learning without feeling uncomfortable. You can stand at the edge of the campground, as it were, or jump right into the thick of things. But in any event, you need to be around players, if possible, and plenty of them, to exchange ideas, to get some hands-on experience, to apply what you are learning now. So what if you make some mistakes when you're out on the edge? From what I know, the picking police don't usually patrol out there anyway.

As for traditional tunes -- they are everywhere. I have been playing mandolin (and guitar) most of my life, and can never imagine running out of them. There are the common tunes, of course, but there are also countless other beautiful melodies waiting to be rediscovered --reels, hornpipes, waltzes, schottisches, marches, airs, etc. Finding those new, "unused" tunes is an adventure in itself. Some of them I have learned from other players, some I have culled from old fiddle tune books, still others from long-unplayed records. I, in turn, have taught them to my friends, and they have responded in kind with their finds, and over the years we have worked many them up and played them together, both for pleasure and in gigs. Some we have played so long now that other players have picked them and spread them around and so they have become "common" in our area. Some we grew tired of quickly and retired them after only a short while. But there are always more.

[fatt-dad]

Jamesrenz,

What I found in the last week is the tabedit! I am just amazed that a computer program can play the tab files. It's incredible to download a tab file for a tune that had me flumexed when I first heard it, forgot the tune the next day, and then got the tabedit file to both show me how to note it but remind me of how it went.

Regarding being grounded in jazz, I am a listener and appreciate the complexity/emotion of the jazz performer.

f-d

[jamesrenz]

Then you definitely need to get out among players, preferably where you can blend in and not have to feel uncomfortable trying things out. Tabedit may get you the notes, and teachers may give you the concepts, but playing around other people will get you the confidence you need, and the experience re. moving from chords to melodies.

[Brad Weiss]

I hardly qualify as one to give advice on the topic, since I'm more or less in the same boat as you, fatt-dad. But I would suggest a modified version of what Mando Johnny has to say- which is play what you like to listen to. If you enjoy jazz, than play jazz (you'll find plenty of great tabledit files for jazz tunes, too). I say this because I found that when I decided to start figuring out jazz tunes, which is also what appeals to me, I found that my ear was more familiar with the "feel" of the music, and I could more easily noodle around and work out improvisations because I was fully familiar with the melody. I think that developing a good ear is a really useful skill for learning to improv, and you will feel like you are making progress as you find you can recognize runs and chord changes in tunes you are familiar with.

The down side of this is it can be tough to find folks to jam with if you want to play something other than old-timey or bluegrass. But not impossible. And I also think that as you improve in one genre it can carry over to enhance others as well- once you feel competent at something it often emboldens you to try out something a bit different.

good luck!

[steve in tampa]

Go to aa bluegrass festival! Very inspiring to watch top notch players up close. i have seen some of the best current touring players over the last few years, and it always helps to be immersed in music for the entire weekend, watching and jamming. Great way to see different styles and techniques, and stage presences of the different players.

[fatt-dad]

Thanks for all these great ideas. It's funny how I do like to noodle with various music. I know that there is no magic answer, but the encourgement is real welcolme.

f-d

[ikesman]

fatt...

You are in richmond,va...yes? perhaps we could hook up for some front porch pickin'? if interested, contact me offline and we can match schedules.

ikesman

[fatt-dad]

License plate fatt-dad. Blow the horn when you see me hauling up 95 - ha. Appreciate the offer. Stay tuned.

f-d

[mandolinbill]

Here's a question. How do the other pickers that you play with see your playing? What are their comments? I admit that I'm new to mandolin playing but I've been playing guitar for 22 years. I always thought that I was the "lesser" of the rest. So for a while, I went on a barage of learning for about two years and then started jamming again. The other people were astounded and although I still didnt feel up to par, I could hold my own. They were very impressed. Now I've got a huge boost of confidence! So keep it up however you decide on improving your skills. I think the path to becoming better can only be found by you. Learn everything you can and practice it. Before long, it will be you thats jammin' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I agree with everyones responses.

[fatt-dad]

What is really interesting to me is I was "looking" for somebody to say, "what you really need to do is practice major scales, arpeggios, pentatonic, get so-and-so's book, etc". I guess all of these things are good ideas and to a growing extent, things that I am trying to find more time for. That said, I really do not play that much with others, which is a big problem in light of these postings. When I do play with others and they nod for me to take a stab at a break, I nod out or have such a convincing "deer-in-the-headlights" look that they know better. Heck, everybody else is great and here I am stinking up the place. So I play my three chords and await the day when I have the confidence.

Mandobill says not to be too hard on myself - I may be better than I think. Heck, my kids think I play real well - ha.

I know it's a matter of time, practice and playing with others. Wouldn't it be nice to have an answer though?

fatt-dad