Shutt Mandolin

[shenanigans]

I got a Shutt Professional Instruments Mandolin-Guitar. It was made in 1913. It is not in the best of shape after sitting in a closet for 20+ years. It is model A#7 and numbered 2023. From what I have found it was made in Topeka, Kansas by this Shutt guys company. I was wondering about: a ballpark estimate($10's", $100's?), a guess for how much it would cost to get restored (needs new bridge, bottom and top worked on for splits and refinished, possibly new frets). I have no idea about anything in this area, but possibly might start learning how to play it if i get it restored. Any information is appreciated. Thanks

[delsbrother]

Well, there was this.. (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=11645;hl=shutt)

[shenanigans]

Awesome, but does anyone have any idea what it would be worth because im looking at getting it restored. I dont want to be putting lots of money into it if it is not worth to much in its current condition or will not be worth much after restoration. Any advice?

[Jim Garber]

So is this your first mandolin? Sounds like you don't yet play. Hard to say what this is worth as a playing instrument. I have never played one in person, but I would say it is worth prob more for historic value than as a playing instrument.

On the other (to venture an educated guess) I would say it would be worth maybe $200-400 in restored, playable condition, maybe more depending on the current market for obscure historical instruments.

If you are just talking about a bridge and fixing some cracks then repairs might come to maybe $100-150 depending on where you take it and the going rate in your area. If you need a fret job then it might take more. In my area, #full fret replacements and the requisite setups come to $250. On the other hand if there is still "meat" on the frets you may just be in for a fret grind and smoothing -- much less $$$.

I would also suggest taking it to someone who knows how to work on mandolins. Some guy who may be a decent repair person but who has no experience with the mandolin would not be great.

One other caveat. Vintage instruments are dicey at times. If you are a beginning player or even experienced on other fretted instruments but not vintage ones, you may be better off selling this and getting yourself a decent well-built modern mandolin. Otherwise you may be putting even more money in it down the line.

Of course, if this was a gift or you got it incredibly cheaply, then no harm in spending a little money to see what you can do with it.

Good luck,
Jim

[Bob DeVellis]

If I had to guess, I'd say it wouldn't be worth much unless you found someone with a specific interest in that particular company. The Waldo mandolins mentioned in the thread referenced earlier might serve as a case in point. They're definitely historically interesting (the first American mandolins with f-holes, an early and important American company who had a real presence at the turn of the 20th century) and two were recently on Ebay. The nicer one -- which was pretty nice -- sold for I think about $300. Neither the Waldo nor the Shutt is likely to appeal to a buyer purely on the strength of its sound. They may sound fine but they're not known for any special tonal quality that everyone is clamoring for. They're more likely to appeal to a collector because they're unusual. If two collectors really wanted the same one, that could generate some competitive bidding, but that seems pretty unlikely. If I were in your situation, I'd bring it to a luthier and get a determination of how structurally sound it was. If it needed structural repairs (e.g., cracks or open seams repaired, neck reset, general setup) and that work would restore it to fully playable condition, I'd consider having it done. Obviously, the less it needed done, the more I'd be inclined to tell the luthier to go ahead with the work. I'd advise against trying to tune it up to playing pitch until it's checked out structurally. String tension could do real damage. I wouldn't have cosmetic work done, such as refinishing, because that will lower its value to a collector. Then, I'd enjoy the instrument and perhaps keep my ear to the ground for anyone who might be interested in buying it. If you're not a player, then this might not be as attractive a course of action. From a strict return-on-investment perspective, I'd guess that it might be hard to get back what the repairs would cost. If the estimate is more than you're willing to spend, you could offer it for sale as is, but it would probably bring less than $100 if it's not currently in stable, playable condition. The buyer would most likely be someone who could do the repairs themselves. They'd be getting sort of a pig in a poke because I doubt there are many people who would know how good or bad a restored Shutt would sound. That's why it wouldn't be worth much to a potential buyer.

All of the above is just my take on the situation. I base it on a general sense of things and general experience with older instruments. Things could turn out very differently under special circumstances. Others very well may have detailed information I lack. I hope my comments at least provide a starting point for the choices you might make.

[Strado Len]

Contact George Gruhn. He wrote about these instruments in his Acoustic Guitars book and considers them historically significant.

[Bob DeVellis]

I thought that these might be of interest to those who have been following this thread:

[mrmando]

Write to Lowell Levinger at vintageinstruments.com -- he should be able to give you an estimate of its value. If anyone is out there looking for a Shutt, Lowell probably knows who it is.

I would echo the advice about choosing a repair person. You need someone familiar not only with mandolins but with rare vintage instruments. There are probably two dozen or fewer Shutts in existence, and it would be a shame to mess this one up with an unneeded refinishing, replacement parts, etc. If you tell us where you live, someone on the board might be able to recommend a repair person.

[shenanigans]

Awesome advice and suggestions. I recently took it to a local instrument guru. He does minor repairs, but he said that he did not want to do the repairs that i needed. He said that it was a structally sound instrument besides maybe where the neck was glued. He told me that i need to get the very back part of the body and prabably the neck reglued which might include taking a majority of of the mando apart. He reffered me to a couple of luthiers, one in Kentucky, who said they dont do that work, and another in Michigan, who i might e-mail pics to get a repair estimate. I think I've decided to not get it refinished either. I guess ill post in the Builders/Repairers forum. Or if anyone here knows of any local luthiers who might be able to do the work in my area im open for refrences. I live in Peoria, Illinois. Thanks

[delsbrother]

Wow, those patent drawings are amazing! Can you imagine a DOUBLE scrolled mandolin? Bob, I can't tell from the small size of the image, but do the instruments in Figs 2 and 3 have f-holes on BOTH sides? And what's up with that fishhook shaped mark on Fig1? Are they all mandolins?

[Bob DeVellis]

I'll try larger images. First:

[Bob DeVellis]

Then:

[Bob DeVellis]

And finally (the "fish hook" is supposed to be a shadow indicating a curved top). These are design patents, rather than utility patents, which means that it is the appearance rather than function that is being patented. Wisely, the patent doesn't specify what type of musical instrument (i.e., mandolin vs guitar) the design is intended for, thus protecting its use for all types of instruments. I don't know of anyone who's seen anything but a mandolin in any of these designs, though.:

[Jim Garber]

I don't know of anyone who's seen anything but a mandolin in any of these designs, though.:
Well, this isn't exactly the same as the drawings but neither is shenanigans' mandolin. This photo of a Shutt guitar is from Gruhn & Carter's Acoustic Guitars book.

Jim

[Bob DeVellis]

Jim:

Thanks. Obviously, the 1914 design (more or less) was applied to guitars as well as mandolins. I stand corrected.

Bob

[mrmando]

Dick Levens of the Orkney Islands makes an electric mandolin that looks suspiciously like one of those double-scrolled Shutts. Check out http://www.dicklevens.co.uk/index.php ...

[mrmando]

Guitar Works in Evanston is the place in Chicago for vintage restoration. They have a mandolin guy on staff.

http://www.guitarworksltd.com/

[mando andy]

Hold on!!!!!!---you have a potentially valuable mando. #Spruce Tree Music in Madison WI (check out their web page) let a Shutt go for around $800-$900 and they felt it was underpriced. #The Shutt mando had a lot of pre loar inovations (elevated finger board for one) and is a really special mando. #

Did you folks notice that this 1913 mando has f holes--when did Gibson start using them?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Right, in the 20's---this mando was ahead of its time.

Wish I had found this mando in my closet.

I would call around before you did anything!!!!!! Call Mandolin Bros, Spruce Tree Music in Madison, WI, or Elderly's before you do anything that could devalue the instrument.

This is a little known mando but could be a real treasure.

Also--the Shutt that Spruce Tree had played great!!!!!

Andy Morton
Madison, WI

[Jim Garber]

I think there was plenty of comment above on the historic aspects of this instrument. Yes, it may have been among the first to use f-holes, altho the Waldo bowlbacks came earlier.

My point to the originator of this thread was that it is a vintage mandolin and as such might not be the best thing for someone starting to play.

I have never played one, but am glad to hear that they are good sounding instruments. I would guess, tho that the buyer of the one at Spruce Tree owns a few other mandolins and wanted that one for its oddball looks and historic value, more than as their main playing instrument.

Jim

[mrmando]

Look kids, there's a Shutt on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3738066512&rd=1)!

[delsbrother]

Check this out - from Gregg Miner's Harpguitars.net... (http://www.harpguitars.net/iconography/shutt-cadenza.jpg)

[SternART]

As I recall these didn't have any tone bars, does yours shenanigans?