Mandolin noob

[dadgumit]

Just started mandolin a couple of months ago and wanted to attend the local old time Jam. I was just wondering what is the mando's place in old time? Do we play melody any? Do we only play rythm? I have noticed the old time jam is highly driven by fiddle and banjo usually a couple of guitars and 1 bass. Havent seen any mando at this paticular jam yet even though they say it is welcome. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[hoffmannia2k7]

I play old time mandolin and generally get frustrated by old time jams, but they are a great place to learn new tunes and meet people who you might enjoy getting together with on a more intimate basis. Old time jams can be very fun, but also can be tough because others always seem to want to express their opinion about what a specific instruments place can be - and we all have our own opinions about that so I won't share mine! My suggestion is do waht feels right to you, I know, its a hazy answer, but you can't go wrong with what feels right. If you are familiar with a melody and enjoy playing it then by all means tear it out. It sounds nice, in my opinion, for a mandolin to cut through the primordial soup created by three, four, or five fiddles swimming along. Other tunes you might find a nice back up involving open chords, or by comping a sort of jazz style using double stops on low strings. for each chord played in the back up to a fiddle tune you could find patterns of two note chords on the g and d string or the a and d string or even the a and e strings. As you progress you can even use three note chords. using these double stops you can accentuate the melody line without actually picking out the individual notes. I find that this is fun and sounds alright!

My other suggestion would be to listen to old time mandolin. Check out some Leake County Revelers where the mandolin plays a lot of lead along with an occaisional fiddle accentuating the melody, The Skilet Lickers last recording session ( i think vol 7 on document included Ted "Hawk" Hawkins on mandolin (my favorite old timey mandolinier), Walkers Corbin Ramblers play some fiddle tunes and some more raggy stuff usually with a mandolin leading the melody, the blue sky boys are always a good bet for old time mandolin, Hoyt "floyd" Ming and his pep steppers play with a mandolin playing the intoxicating backup using an open chord style, Charlie McCoy plays blues and beautiful waltzes, of course there is Yank Rachel for blues too but that may not fly at an old time jam. The mandolin is played differently in lots of different old time formats. Check out some New Lost City Ramblers stuff to hear Mike Seeger play brilliant old time mandolin.

PM me and I can send you some cool old-timey mandolin stuff.

Serenade in the mountains on JSP has tons of mandolin cuts including the complete Ted Hawkins and Riley Puckett collection, call Joe Bussard and get his old style mandolin tape, or check out rounder records Early mandolin classics.

hope this helps.

[sgarrity]

Play the melody with the fiddle, play backup, your options are open. If someone doesn't like it they will probably tell you. ;-)

[mandolirius]

I've been going to the local old-time jam for a while and also didn't know what to do at first. There are no "rules" but certainly some guideline you could follow. First off, play the melody if you know the melody. Don't play something *like* the melody. Old time tunes are usually without words and the subtle differences between one tune and another are not all that great, so it's important that the actual melody is played. You'll find this way of thinking common in Celtic music too. If I don't know the melody and it's not something I can figure out on the spot, I usually gravitate towards double stop rhythm stuff, similar to what the banjo players do. A lot of times I won't play the melody with the fiddles even if I know it, because there is a lot of things being done with the bow that I can't emulate with a flatpick.

So the challenge (and the fun) for me is to try and develop a style of mandolin playing that close to the rhythm of clawhammer banjo. Not too many notes, and really try to support the fiddles. I really don't expect to be prominent or featured or have the opportunity to solo in any way. If I wanted that, I'd go to a bluegrass jam, or something else. Old-time, it seems to me, is about the collective experience, the sort of group-conscious idea. A lot of people at the jam I go to think of it as acoustic "groove" music. It's all about getting inside the rhythm and letting it take you away. Of course I'm here on the west coast and we're into that whole "groove" thang. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[hoffmannia2k7]

Skillet Lickers Volume 6 on document records is the one with Ted Hawkins on mandolin. It's got back up and push, down yonder, tanner's rag, and some great mule songs plus two great skits.

http://www.venerablemusic.com/catalog/TitleDetails.asp?TitleID=1505

[billkilpatrick]

the question to ask anyone objecting to your mandolin in an "old-time" setting is - "are you re-creating this music or re-enacting it?"

it's a legitimate question ... if people want to hear exactly what people and instrumentalists heard 100+ years ago then you've got to get into the nitty-gritty of 19th cent. methods of string manufacture and preservation of wood ... and the ambient temperature of the room and the quality of its air (central heating is right out and there better be a row of buck-boards and mules hitched-up outside instead of SUV's) and the manner in which an authentic, old-time musician would approach any given piece of music if he or she were forced to play in woolen underware - particularly in august ... and a thousand other - completely arbitrary and totally meaningless considerations.

[hoffmannia2k7]

mmm, woolen underwear. Yes, the old-time scene brings up millions of line walkings. I want to show up to an old-time festival with nothing but fermented steak to eat cause it is oh so old-timey. Nonetheless there is always the debate whether to recreate or reenact. I tend to do a little bit of both.

[JeffD]

I play old time mandolin and generally get frustrated by old time jams, but they are a great place to learn new tunes and meet people who you might enjoy getting together with on a more intimate basis.
As opposed to what?

I mean, why go to a jam if it isn't a place to learn new tunes and meet people who you might enjoy getting together with?

[hoffmannia2k7]

too have fun playing

[lgc]

"Don't play something *like* the melody. Old time tunes are usually without words"

Melodies are regional and personal so something lie the melody is ususally alright. Most oldrtime is learned by ear and preserved through the brain thus it changes.

Most old time has words. Almost all of it. 85% has singing and words and words that are sung.

[lgc]

Play what feels right in other words.

[hoffmannia2k7]

there is no exact melody

[lgc]

THe best advice I could give is to learn the words to songs and then sing them at jams because once the vocal part is in your head the melody and phrasing will be second nature. Sing and have fun.

[hoffmannia2k7]

that actually is great and overlooked advice lgc!

[8picker]

check out the ed haley and john morgan salyer backup!!! Mand olin w a capital m.

Mike Compton recently told me that listening to those Ed Haley recordings was where he began to really get in to backing up old time.

I once witnessed a big hissey fit and a party jambuster over conflicting opinions of the mandolin's role. It has stayed with me. I avoid any self professed expert and anyone who plays louder than they listen.

I've overdubbed some mando on my band's cd's (i'm mostly a fiddler because whenever I pick up a mando...the bluegrass keeps leaking out, and my old time buddies hate that) and I play melody, and ringyslingyringy kind of slippery chords...but love a good chop here and there.

The beauty of the mandolin in old time is that you can do many things, all of which (IMHO) add a much needed layer of texture and variation.

PS: Listen to my buddy Caleb Clauder with the Foghorn Stringband...he always adds to whats going on

[allenhopkins]

Play, don't worry...