Just got back from hearing patrick street

[Keith Newell]

I just got back from the Alberta street public house in Portland Oregon and listening to Patrick Street. Kevin Burke, John Carty, Andy Irvine and Jed Foley. Wow! what fun. I have seen everyone live before except John Carty. He played Fiddle, tenor banjo and flute. I couldn't keep still.
New goal is to play as effortless as Andy and as economical as John on the Banjo....yes I know I build mandolins but play tenor banjo 50% of the time at Irish jams. Anyone else there tonight?
Keith

[chinatogalway]

how was the sound without Jackie Daly ? Did the banjo take more of a lead ?

[steve V. johnson]

Man, I LOVE the way these folks play. woo. I didn't know that John Carty played flute! Cool!

Jackie Daly will always have a special place in my heart, and I'll sure miss him with PS.

I hope to see PS on this tour...

Keith, do tell us more about the sound without Jackie?

Thanks!

stv

[Keith Newell]

Yes it was great fun. I thought that John on the banjo did fill in a bit more with the banjo and it sounded good. Kevin and John did quite a bit of harmony licks in the background on fiddles when Andy was singing and playing, you still had a reed sound because Andy was playing harmonica and bouzoukie at the same time (tough to do!). The banjo though was a nice driving force, on one song Andy was singing John came in on banjo and it meshed perfect with Andy's voice, it had a very unique sound. Kevin was typical Kevin, funny, flawless, and was more than willing to let others shine. I see Kevin periodically because he lives in Portland.
They played a tune written by a female fiddler and I can't remember her name but Kevin said she has also moved to Portland so maybe we will all see her doing a gig. I can't remember her name though, I think she was from Canada? Anyone know?
Keith

[steve V. johnson]

When Ged lived in Ohio we got to hear him with John Carty sort of often. They played at a huge feis in Cincinnati, with Bernie Nau (and someone else, whom I can't recall...), and on a couple of occaisions, Ged and John did concerts together.

Boy, there are two different fiddle styles, Kevin Burke and John Carty! Cool mix!

Thanks,

stv

[Bill Van Liere]

Thanks for the report Kieth. I did not know those guys were still playing. Wish I was there. I never cease to be amazed at Andy's effortless ability to blend his instrument with his singing.

[ruraltradpunk]

John Carty is playing a bit of banjo in Patrick Street too? How cool is that! He's one of my favourite banjo players - never over plays and always goes for feeling over speed, which is a winner in my book.

Jill

[otterly2k]

Looking forward to catching their show in Philly this week....
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[John Goodin]

I just pre-ordered the new CD from Amazon last night. Can hardly wait.

John G.

[GD Armstrong]

They did a show at my store on Sat. night - small venue - 50 people and then again at the Alberta St on Sunday. Very cool contrast, the one at my place was all acoustic while the one at Alberta St was through the PA. More delicacy & subtle acoustic - Much more drive & power with the sound reenforcement. They are all amazing!

[FredB]

DANG! They were at the Austin Celtic Festival a week ago and I missed them. I was catching up on some of the other groups at other stages chasing the down some bodhran playing ...there, I said it, the secret's out http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wish I had a "do over" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Fred

[Keith Newell]

OK GD Armstrong I'm wanting to know your "store" and since I live in the area I might come see it.....whats the name? I have heard Kevin Burke and Jed Foley years ago totally acoustic at the old Artichoke music store venue when they played in the window as a stage. Maybe 35 people there and it was magical.
Keith

[GD Armstrong]

Hey I was at that Artichoke show too! My store is in Newberg, it's Newberg Music Center right in the middle of the old downtown on 99 heading back into P'tland. I'm usually there on Tuesdays & Fridays so I can spend the rest of my life in the workshop. I'd love to have you come out. Store phone is 503.537.2196.

[Paul Kotapish]

I saw the Berkeley show at the Freight. It was a full, but not packed house, and the response was very enthusiastic. The lads played very well, indeed, but I sure missed Jackie's playing. In general, I thought the tune sets from the new recording were the high points of the evening. The Sligo sets with twin fiddles were particularly strong. Kevin and John have very different styles on their own, but they sounded great together. John is a wizard on everything, and his banjo playing is very strong.

Andy Irvine's accompaniment figures on the mandola and whatever he calls the OM-like guitar thing are always a revelation, and they particularly shone on "Plains of Kildare," one of my favorites from his classic album with Paul Brady. Ged's guitar was a bit muddy in the mix, but his playing was punchy and energetic, with a few nice harmonized bits with Andy on some of the slower things.

As always, Kevin's fiddling was elegant and seemingly effortless. Made me more than a tad nostalgic.

[steve V. johnson]

Here is the Patrick Street page on the Green Linnet site, with the tour schedule:

http://www.greenlinnet.com/artists/patrick-street

Friends in PA, NY and MA can catch them this time around. #

Ged Foley's site says that there will be more Patrick Street US touring in
May.

Slainte,

stv

[otterly2k]

will be going to hear them tomorrow night in Philly. Will post afterwards...

[otterly2k]

Fabulous concert -- nice venue, fairly small (maybe 150 people?), round room... just the right energy for a Wednesday night.

I got a great seat up front, so snapped a couple of pics with my palm pilot... they're not great, but it's something.

Here's Andy with the Sobell OM

[otterly2k]

Here's the Sobell guitar-shaped zouk. Boy... that puppy has seen better days... has lots of cracks and the pickup is held in place with duct tape... but it sure does sound fine...

[otterly2k]

Here's the whole group... sorry again for the poor picture quality.

I continue to be awed by Andy's playing - all over the neck, moving lines and all varieties of chords, delicate picking as well as driving rhythms, etc. I actually wished it had been boosted a bit in the sound mix... there were times when it got swamped by the guitar. FOrtunately, the guitar was excellent as well!

[Paul Kotapish]

Interesting, Karen. In your photo Ged is on the opposite side of the stage from where he stood at the Berkeley, California, show. He was on stage right--next to Andy--that night.

[otterly2k]

this was their set up all evening... I guess they're versatile that way.

[steve V. johnson]

Hey Karen, you're killin' me... sure wish I could have heard them this time around. Thanks for the pix!

I noticed the changed setup, too. The last two tours Ged was at stage right. Lotta pickin' goin' on!

Andy's and Ged's playing intertwine so amazingly. In a workshop once I asked Ged about it and he said that
Andy's playing (and his singing, too) are so original that Andy has 'the right of way,' and then Ged works around
whatever Andy does.

My favorite band.

There isn't a record newer than "Street Life" is there? Last summer Ged mentioned that they'd been recording, in Ireland, I think, but I've heard no more.

Thanks very much for the pix!

stv

[Avi Ziv]

stv - here ya go:

new reording (http://www.kevinburke.com/html_links_music.html#otf)

Cheers,
Avi

[otterly2k]

Yes.. it's called On the Fly

[steve V. johnson]

Thanks, Avi! I just bought it, Woohooo!

stv

[Dagger Gordon]

I'd certainly like to hear that line-up.

I've noticed that these venues don't sound very big. Are Irish bands like that playing pretty small gigs or am I getting the wrong impression?

I wouldn't have thought 4 guys flying around to play to 150 people would stack up economically.

[Steve L]

I've lived in Massachusetts for over 50 years and their one gig in the state is in a town I've never heard of. I'm tempted to think their booking agent may be an angry jilted lover or something. I think they could draw very well in the Boston/Cambridge/Somerville area. I saw them in Davis Square a number of years ago and they were great. Arty McGlynn had injured his hand and couldn't play and Daithi Sproule covered the gig.

There don't seem to me to be as many acts coming through town as there used to be.

[steve V. johnson]

From what I hear from Irish trad artists who are touring, the 'market' is shrinking for all but the largest (both most people in the band and the best known). #I'm not sure why this is. #

They say things about festivals shrinking and non-festival concert opportunities drying up. #There's some talk about festivals trending toward the 'pub-song' sing-along acts and "celtic rock" acts and away from trad. # #Of six festivals around the midwest, three have definitely gone that way, tho two of those still include some trad acts. #"Celtic rock" can get airplay on some commercial stations here in the midwest, where acoustic trad just does -not- fit, so some festivals have been able to secure media sponsorship, or at least coverage, with the rock acts.

The others remain staunchly committed to trad. #It does seem that the smaller ones' budgets have shrunk a bit (tho the sponsor lists remain pretty much the same...), because I see them hiring more regional artists and fewer of the more prominent Irish touring artists.

That last part is sort of a mixed blessing, because the regional players enjoy the chance to play, but it's tough work for them to provide the strong draws that would make up for the absence of the big name veteran artists. # Many of the regional players are pretty informal, and gig as an extension of session playing, so for them, working on audience building in the same way as pop acts do, isn't really common. #"Real musicians have day jobs" !! #;-)

The Irish trad market, for recordings and performances, is pretty hard (for me) to quantify. #As Dagger notes, it doesn't look
like it makes sense, but they -do- it, so it must somehow be financially feasible. # As nearly as I can figure, it's a lot like the world of jazz in the '70's and '80's... #Players move around and play in different combinations, release recordings in different combinations, and each player is a "brand," and have their own sound, approach and audiences. #These days it's kinda the opposite of back then in that it was much harder to finance recording and cheaper to tour; #now it's very easy to record and much more expensive to tour...

I'd expect that for bigger bands like Altan, Danu, Teada, Dervish, the market is a lot more like the rock/pop one. #The band is the 'brand,' and the touring may require more tour support from the record label, or some similar source, like endorsements. #Guinness, for example, provided sponsor support for Lunasa at the Cincinnati Celtic Fest.

As for the agent, PS and it's members have used the same folks for a pretty long time, and I think that the four of them work steadily, in and out of PS, as solos, duets, trios in other combinations, and recording. # #

When Kevin Burke and Ged Foley played a house concert here in Bloomington, someone asked them about their tour schedule and if they made enough money on those dates and Burke replied, 'As much as we want...' # Maybe that was a stock answer or maybe he was pulling the person's tail a bit. #I've heard Foley and Jackie Daly say on other occaisions that they worked as much as they wanted to... #I'm sure, as with all of us, that changes from time to time...

When Burke and Foley did that series of duo dates, many times they were guests in private homes along the way. #That helps a lot. #The math on that is pretty simple. #

Some time back Matt & Shannon Heaton (performing as Sucra, from Boston) booked a cross-country tour, all the way to the west coast, and I wanted to have them here, but I was too far off their path to get a concert. #In this case it was
because they had time constraints, dates booked on the west coast, but without the time crunch, getting them to travel farther from their main route would have been a matter of $/attendance numbers. #I think we could have gotten enough
folks here for them to make it worthwhile... #

So I hope we get another chance. #So far, when we've been able to put together a trad concert here, in venues or in house concerts, we've been able to get the artists more $ than what they asked for, including CD sales and workshops, and to provide lodging. #We haven't done it often, averaged, about every fourteen or fifteen months. #I'd like to do more.

So... I dunno how the Patrick Street folks do this stuff, financially... #but I'm sure glad they do!

stv

p.s. #I was happy to be able to buy the new PS CD (and others) directly from Kevin Burke's site, without middle-folks
to take a piece of the price.

[mikeyes]

Does that picture have two banjos in it (John Carty and Kevin Burke?)

[Paul Kotapish]

I've noticed that these venues don't sound very big. #Are Irish bands like that playing pretty small gigs or am I getting the wrong impression?
Dagger,

I was kind of surprised to see Patrick Street play the Freight (200+ seat venue) to a full but not sold-out house. In years past they played much bigger venues and they packed the place. And most of the top Irish and Scottish groups are playing similarly sized venues rather than the 400–to–1,000-seat houses they would have played a decade back.

Ticket prices were pretty high for the venue, though, at about $28 a pop.

Still, I think that fact that top acts are playing the smaller houses indicates an ebbing of the scene, and it's not unexpected. Interest in traditional art forms waxes and wanes in fairly predictable patterns, and the recent revival had an unusually vigorous arc from the mid '60s through the overkill of Riverdance.

The enthusiasts will keep the music alive as we always have--in pubs, parlors, and grange halls. The music itself is as vital as ever.

The New England contradance scene--and its associated music (which taps heavily from the Irish, Scottish, Cape Breton, and Quebec wells)--is experiencing a similar downturn in this area, too. For years the dances were jammed and vital, and now the local dance committees are trying to decide whether they need to fold up some of the long-running dance events due to poor attendance.

Meanwhile, old-time music is experiencing a boom time around here. Loads of bands and enthusiasm, and the old-time dances (squares, circles, and longways sets) are packed with folks of all ages, and a lot of energetic kids in their teens and early twenties. Fifteen years ago, though, you couldn't get young folks out to a square dance.

Turn, turn, turn.

[zoukboy]

Yes, the post-Riverdance "Celtic" music bubble has shrunk significantly but another huge factor in this for touring groups is that the US dollar has dropped straight into the toilet, making it really difficult for non US-based acts to go home with much at the end of their tour.

Also, with the burgeoning Irish economy there are decent paying gigs there for trad musicians now. The first few times I was there (1990-94) the most well-known musicians were lucky to get 25 quid for leading a session, but recently listening rooms have popped up all over the country. I did a small tour there with Randal Bays a couple of years ago and the difference after 11 years was pretty shocking. I think it's a great time for Irish trad music in Ireland.

[jmcgann]

Combine the visa difficulties presented to musicians from outside the USA (which have been brutal since 9/11) with a dollar too weak to defend itself...

[Paul Kotapish]

Roger and John,

We're getting loads of Irish acts through here on a regular basis. What I'm noticing at this point isn't any change in the number of acts coming over, or in the number of local musicians playing trad Irish (Scottish, CB, etc.) music, but rather that audience attendance at the gigs is shrinking. The economic woes and visa hassles will probably diminish the number of visiting acts sometime soon, but so far all that hasn't seemed to stop bands from touring out our way yet.

[zoukboy]

Paul,

I think the Bay Area might be getting more acts coming in than other parts of the country because of the population density. I'm just reporting from my own experience and what touring musicians who live abroad have told me. On the other hand, I think this is a great time for US based musicians to tour Europe because the exchange rate works in our favor when we come back.

[Dagger Gordon]

I have noticed that the age demographic of some of the gigs I've gone to this year has become kind of old!

Three examples: #Tinarawen, from the Sahara, played Inverness in the Spring as part of a big and heavily advertised tour promoting a new album. #They had also got a lot of press in several magazines. #I took my 17 year old son Donald to the gig and was intrigued to find most of the audience was about my age (54 in case you're wondering). Hardly any youngsters at all, in a venue that puts on a lot of rock acts.
2 nights ago saw Capercaillie in Strathpeffer, and I was very surprised to find a similar audience. The only youngsters looked to have been taken by their folks. #I have to say that various members of the band have been involved in trad music projects with good young trad musicians round here (and believe me there are a lot of them and they are getting really hot) so I thought more of those would have shown up.
In the same venue 2 weeks ago 2 of Little Feat's guitarists (Paul and Fred) played an acoustic gig. Packed out, but of course full of old fans.

So, my question is are you finding that while the audience for Irish music seems to be shrinking, is it also getting older? #Is this true of rootsy music in particular, or are concerts generally not attracting young audiences?

I was in Oban recently on a night when big Scots rock band Idlewild were playing. #I didn't go, but asked about ticket sales. #There were lots left on the afternoon of the gig. #Donald said tickets at £16 would put kids off.

I've been to quite a few festivals this summer, and I have to say that they all attracted lots of kids. #I would say the festival audience is getting bigger, but maybe the regular concert scene is attracting a slightly different and older crowd.

Just my own observations. #Anyone else seeing similar trends?

[GD Armstrong]

I think you're right Dagger. The folks that come to alot of the trad music events around here (Oregon, USA) are getting grey except for the old time scene.
Smaller venues seem to fit Irish music better to me. That's where it came from after all.

When I was a kid, 50+ years ago, what is now called old time & even Bluegrass mostly happened on porches & parlors. Some of those muscians would also play for dances at the Grange or schoolhouse. In the 60's some of the more comercial Bluegrass players began to move into the bar circuit. Still small venues.

[Will Morgan]

"They played a tune written by a female fiddler and I can't remember her name but Kevin said she has also moved to Portland so maybe we will all see her doing a gig. I can't remember her name though, I think she was from Canada? Anyone know?
Keith"

That would be Lisa Ornstein, most likely.

Will Morgan

[allenhopkins]

Couple good points here:
1] "Graying" of the folk audience -- our local folk club is built around people 45-65 years old, who put it together 25-35 years ago. The folk music camps I attend, the festivals and weekends, are full of "boomers" well into middle age, and others (like me) even older. Exception seems to be local Irish music seisuns, where some high school and college age kids come to play. Perhaps the kernel of a new audience generation?
2] Exchange rate -- I opened for Scottish pop-folk singer Bruce Davies back in September; he'd been making annual viaits to our area (Rochester NY) for the past five years, but said this was the last one until the dollars he earns here are worth more back in the UK. "Might come over for vacation," he said, "but not to perform."

[steve V. johnson]

In Cincinnati, St. Louis and northern Kentucky there are some great programs to teach Irish music to kids, and the session communities and the folks who teach music, have active interests in bringing young kids, and new adults, too, into the traditons.

In Cincinnati the kids from the Riley School of Irish music kids always send some older sessioneers back to the woodshed
after hearing the kids, and after learning some tunes from them. At the St. Louis Tionol in April, there are always bright
young players about.

After all this, a number of us here in Indiana have been working to make our music more inviting to da yout'. We make sure that our session venues are all-ages rooms, and we've reached out to a number of music teachers, to cooperate with them to help them with Irish repertoire (and the irish musical 'vernacular,' which can't really be taught in a class), and we've spread the word about sessions and music events to the schools and youth programs. All this is pretty informal, but it represents a relatively new activity for us. For years we just worked on getting along with our venue hosts, playing the tunes and getting along with one another...

Enough of us travel that we all picked up on kids and the music in other places, and now we're doing a bit better with it.
We're in a college town and there are lots of university students who come and go, and some of them teach younger kids, too, so there's that, too... And there are some great youth music programs within the Univ. Now we have some pretty good young players coming up.

stv

[Dagger Gordon]

There are lots of great young players in Scotland, and they do go to sessions. Most of them seem very keen.

What I was saying is that they don't seem to turn up at concerts much, though they do go to festivals.

[otterly2k]

The event here in Philly was definitely pretty "grey"... I think I probably brought the average age down, and I'm in my 40's.

[POB]

Also, with the burgeoning Irish economy there are decent paying gigs there for trad musicians now. The first few times I was there (1990-94) the most well-known musicians were lucky to get 25 quid for leading a session, but recently listening rooms have popped up all over the country. I did a small tour there with Randal Bays a couple of years ago and the difference after 11 years was pretty shocking. I think it's a great time for Irish trad music in Ireland.
I agree with this to some extent. The landscape is definitely changing.

There are indeed listening rooms popping up all over the country, but those are small listening rooms and this is a very small country with a very high cost of living. The pub session/gig scene, while still good, is certainly not as vibrant as it was 10-15 years ago, at least in my stomping ground (Galway and its environs).

It seems to me that in my younger adulthood back in the 80s and early 90s, my contemporaries would gravitate to the slightly less-than-pristine "trad" pubs, whether they were traditional music fans or not. Now that there's a lot more money sloshing around, the "young" social scene has gone distinctly upmarket and the pubs that are doing the main business are the sophisticated superpubs. You can try to dress traditional music up in Flatley-esque shiny shirts and what-have-you, but the average pub session just doesn't cut it in the glamour stakes (thank heavens!)

Financially speaking, I don't do music for a living any more, but the average payment for pub gigs around here has not risen anything near the rate of inflation since our economy began to grow over a decade ago.

Now, there are still scads of great young players coming up along the line, but among the platforms available to them, "trad" pubs, as far as I can see, are on the decline. This is not necessariy a bad thing in the greater scheme of things, but while the listening room phenomenon is a very important and welcome development, the pub session was, for many of today's pros, a very important step in the evolution of their musical chops and collaborations.

Anyway, that's enough of me earning my "grumpy old trad git" credentials for one night. I'm now off to do my weekly stint in the Crane with one of my mando-buddies, which, in spite of all I've said above, I always enjoy immensely and which always attracts a goodly assortment of musical collaborators.

[Keith Newell]

I agree that the scene is getting bit older. Heck a lot of the listeners were 15 years younger 15 years ago. I'm glad I haven't changed http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif whats to do with all these older/respectable people anyways? Hey does anybody know how to get that silvery colored hair off my temples? NO! it's not gray! I just have a genetic trait...uh, I worry alot...I looked like this when I was a young teenager....
Keith