Chording Along

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

OK so here's my situation. I played mando for around 8 to 9 months then had an accident which cut the tip of my left index finger - had 17 stitches in last three quarter inch of finger. Took some time to heal meanwhile I loaned my mando to a foreign exchange student for 7 months and got it back last month. Needless to say I'm somewhat of a beginner again an I gotta say it's kinda wierd having no feeling where all the scar tissue is. Anyway I'm playin again an lovin it.

I have a 12 year old daughter who is in 4th year fiddle and a 10 year old son in 2nd year guitar. My wife plays a little fiddle (less than my daughter) and is working on learning guitar. Anyway my daughter loves having me play along with her and we'll work on the guitar players. :>) At first I told my daughter OK I'll do the melody you do the chords. That didn't fly! :>) So I do chords.

My question is how do you best play chords and accompany a fiddle? Do you do one strum for every quarter note? Do you mix it up like play one string then the other three taking two quarter notes doin it or what? I kinda go by feel an some times it works some times it's kinda wierd. Lately I've tried strummin on every syllable as if I'm singin the song. Results are OK. I can (more or less) hit the chord changes OK and I'm gradually working into more difficult fingering - 3 and 4 finger chords rather than the mostly two finger I started with. I'm just wondering what others do. I plan to begin including my son's guitar before long. I'm not sure how that'll go. Anyway TIA for any replies.

Take Care! -Ed-

PS we do cloudy day, tom dooley, rank stranger, worried man blues an I'm tryin to get up to speed on wabash cannonball an her favorite wreck of the ol 97.

[peterbc]

I just jammed with two fiddlers the other day so I was the only one doing any sort of chordal accompaniment. Since they would do they're chucks on the offbeat (like I would normally do with the chop), I tried to let it ring more, like you would with a guitar. I also tended away from the chop shapes (like the standard four finger big reaching G and D chords) and more towards 2 or three finger open chords, or, if it was in a key that didn't work well in like A or Bb or something, I'd use the two finger G and bar it. As far as rythm, I kept it pretty simple and would play whatever note was on the G string on the beat and the whole chord on the off beat. I thought it worked pretty well, and depending on the song I would just do the off beat. This was about as good an aproximation to a guitar as I could get at the time, though I might try to work on it more and get it a bit refined... it's also useful in a bigger setting if the guitar drops out to take a break (something needs to fill in the gap...)

[John Flynn]

The universal answer is that really depends on what kind of fiddle music you are accompanying, how good you are on rhythm and what kind of effect you are going for. First, different time signatures and different tempos will have different strums. Second, a better player can do strums that a beginner could not pull off. Third, different strums can create diffent textures to music. Even at a beginning stage, I think it is important to be aware of things like that, although you may not be able to fully exploit those dynamics yet. I would start listening to music with an ear toward: "What are the rhythm instruments doing? Why? What sort of effect is it creating? Eventually you will come up with your own ideas about rhythm.

To get started, it is generally always safe to do single strums on the downbeats while you are listening to the natural rhythm of the tune. Then, once you are confiedent with the chords, the changes and you have a feel for the tune, you can let some of the suggestions above kick in. I would stick with the lowest noted chords possible and concentrate on the lower strings. The high strings on a mando can come across a little shrill if they are played loud and constantly, especially if the mando is the only rhythm instrument.

BTW, I don't particularly like the idea of strumming on every syllable of the lyrics, except as a very rarely used special effect. That really is not playing rhythm or melody. I am not sure what you would call it, but it is one of my pet peeves.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Thanks for the replies but I need a little clarification just to be sure. In music in 4/4 time downbeats are 2 and 4 right (not 1 and 3)? I'm not sure where the downbeat in a waltz is though.

Peter - I was mostly doin open ringing chords as you mentioned otherwise I'd have to be real specific about which strings I was hitting. I did do some right hand damping to see how that sounded but I'll have to be more coordinated to do it fast. It did sound OK.

Mando Johnny your right I can see lots of possibilities to complimenting the melody with different strumming techniques. I must admit I've not yet seen an instructional book that really delves into this. I was sticking to low note chords as I believe your right about high octave chords being shrill after a while. Strumming on syllables was interesting but I think your right about sticking to the beat.

For both of you my goal is pretty simple - to sound good while being in time and complementing the fiddle music. The songs I listed are I believe all in G so the chords are G D an C (standard I IV an V) with I think a G7 in one of them an Wreck of the Ol 97 has an A in it. All are from Bert Casey's Bluegrass Fakebook.

Thanks Again - an anyone else out there do chime in.

Take Care! -Ed-

[John Flynn]

From the Virginia Tech Music dictionary:


Downbeat: The first beat of the measure. When played under the direction of a conductor, it is signified by the downward movement of the conductor's hand.
So that would be the first beat, regardless of the time signature. However, if the chord changes within a measure, you would also strum on the beat the chord changes on.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

OK MandoJ just the first note? So if the music is in 4/4 time (4 quarter notes to a measure) there is just one strum per measure on 1 but nothing on 2, 3 or 4? I take it that if you do more your modifying the most basic. I was trying to - for example - play a G string on 1 strum on 2 g string on 3 strum on 4 - so I take it that that would be one of the variations one could come up with?

Thanks Again! Take Care! -Ed-

[sailaway]

hmm, might be a good time to try some easy crosspicking, using only 2 or 3 fingers to fret easy chords, like say a G to C then a G- D progression. or to individually note a string in one of those chords, then tremolo it ('tremblin it for that ol BigMon sound...) crosspick mando sounds really good with fiddles or guitars ( but not of course with b*&%os, with which nothing sounds good..) Good luck and remember Django Reinhardt partially lost 2 fingers and was still a spectacular jazz guitarist... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[jamesrenz]

I agree with all of the above posts re. possible rhythmic combinations. You may want to start to find three, or even two string chords on the lower strings. With the straight majors and minors, the 1st and 3rd notes work - you don't need the 5th. With straight dominant 7th chords, the 7th is, obviously necessary, but can be combined with only the 3rd --the 1st and 5th are not necessary. You can then add additional "color" tones on top of these combinations to get the M7 or m7, 9th chords, etc. These smaller chords can help define the melody line as it moves. You will also have any easier time finding bass line connections between your chords.

[John Flynn]

OK MandoJ just the first note?
Yes. What I was suggesting there is the most basic thing you can do and still be playing rhythm. You can start from that and build. If you are really listening to the tune and just doing one strum on the downbeat/chord change, additional stums and rhythms will start to occur to you. Go with that feeling and see what you can do.

That is always my fallback. Once I showed up for the choir practice on Sunday morning and found out we had to play a tune I did not know. It was a fast tune in 5/8 time with a lot of chords and a lot of changes, many of the changes mid measure. On top of that, the chior director wanted to "swing" it. The first couple of run-throughs drove me crazy! Then I just "punted." I played one strum on each chord change for a few run-throughs and then the rhythm just started to "happen." By the time we went upstairs for the service, I had it nailed!

[Bruce Evans]

That is always my fallback. Once I showed up for the choir practice on Sunday morning and found out we had to play a tune I did not know. It was a fast tune in 5/8 time with a lot of chords and a lot of changes, many of the changes mid measure. On top of that, the chior director wanted to "swing" it.
Who the heck is your choir director?

Doc Severinson? #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[John Flynn]

Who the heck is your choir director? Doc Severinson?
LOL! I'll tell him that, he will get a kick out of it. Actually, he is a really talented music professional who likes to stretch the musical limits of the choir, but always within the context of worship. He is in his 20's, he is all-but-dissertation on his PHD in music and he is a great guitarist, who is in multiple local bands and occasionally gets hired to write music for radio commercials.

[withak]

The rhythm accompaniement should depend on what kind of music it is. For simple bluegrass/old-timey/folk stuff a bass note on 1 and 3 with a strum on 2 and 4 work for most tunes in 4/4. Waltz time usually gets a bass note on 1 and a strum on 2 and 3, and maybe on eighth notes after 2 and 3 as well.

For irish music it gets a lot more complicated because the rhythmn will depend on what tune it is. Expect to get some dirty looks unless you are an expert at accompanying irish music. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mando bandage]

Cross-picking is my choice for anything that doesn't sound right with chops on the upbeats (2 & 4). Just noodle around on the open chords and try not to play a full four note chord more than once or twice in each chord change. Soon, your pick hand will know what to do and will throw in some double stops. I've heard it said that too many full chord strums on the mando fatigues the ear. I find that to be true.

R

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I just got back from a funeral/wake/family-get-together/party and see some more of you have chimed in. I really want to thank you all for the help. There is much wisdom on this board. I'll be working on some of this later today.

Thanks! Take Care! -Ed-

[Dfyngravity]

crosspicking is a great thing to have in your bag of mando tricks. if you get it right it can sound pretty sweet. as for 3/4 or waltz time the off beats are 2 and 3. so the chops go on the 2 and 3. i usually just pluck the bass note on one and then chop on 2 and 3. but i would try various things depending on the speed and time of the song. chord voicing i think is crucial to having a great song. if any of your time gets off or something just doesn't sound right than the whole song sounds bad. watch chris thile, he can voice chords like no other. i have his video and love to watch him play the rythm because he makes it sound so cool.

[TerryA]

Listen to Mike Compton on John Hartford's fiddle tune
CDs (Hamilton Ironworks, Speed of the Old Longbow,
Good Old Boys, Wild Hog in the Red Brush). There's
also a good, simple discussion in Niles Hokanen's little
chord book about Texas Style fiddle backup.

---
TerryA