Modes- one more time

[Philphool]

Sorry guys. Just one more time for me.

I've been learning 'Watson Blues' as played by Grisman. Very bluesy sounding. The chord progression is generally 'EDAE EBE' (give or take)

My question: Is this in the key of E (I bVII IV I - I V I)
or is it 'A Myxolydian' (V IV I V - V II V)??

Or is it something else? I know it probably doesn't matter, but I'm trying to understand proper terminology for the tonal sound.

Thanks,
Phil

[groveland]

Judging from the small clip on Amazon (I don't have this tune), that's not a particular mode. #It's blues, and you can hear the 3/b3 qand 7/b7 of all the chords are pretty interchangeable throughout. #All the chords are dom7's, and no one mode contains them all.

But it's a short clip.

I'd probably improvise blues over the E7 and A7 (I, IV) or maybe do mixolydian over each chord independently (E mixo, A mixo). But I'd like to hear A melodic minor over the D7 (bVII) and on the B7 (V) I'd like to hear an E harmonic minor to set up the E7.

Or you could do 3/b3 7/b7 blues and pentatonic over the works. #Other ideas?

[Walter Newton]

I can't comment on this song, but note that if you do actually have a tune in E mixolydian you would refer to it as being in the key of E or E mixolydian - NOT "A mixolydian". #I think I can see where you got the idea, since the notes in E mixolydian are the same as A major - but A mixolydian is something else, A B C# D E F# G A (same notes as D major).

[Peter Hackman]

Judging from the small clip on Amazon (I don't have this tune), that's not a particular mode. #It's blues, and you can hear the 3/b3 qand 7/b7 of all the chords are pretty interchangeable throughout. #All the chords are dom7's, and no one mode contains them all.

But it's a short clip.

I'd probably improvise blues over the E7 and A7 (I, IV) or maybe do mixolydian over each chord independently (E mixo, A mixo). But I'd like to hear A melodic minor over the D7 (bVII) and on the B7 (V) I'd like to hear an E harmonic minor to set up the E7.

Or you could do 3/b3 7/b7 blues and pentatonic over the works. #Other ideas?
Is there really a D7? I don't recall this version but when I blow on this piece I think of the D as Dmaj7 or E/d or I just don't think at all, i.e., I superimpose the E7 (E mixo) scale on everything. Or, well, something.

[Jkf_Alone]

listen to the original. its not really an improvised tune. i havent really heard the grisman version, but if its anything like the monroe version, it basically goes through the parts the same every time he plays it. also on the original recording it is in straight E no real modes and the scale is an E blues scale with one note different ( i use a C on that second pull off)

[groveland]

Sounds like a D to me: The short clip is here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000003915001015/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_015/002-4461953-9498400) and it's at 12 seconds in.

[Philphool]

Thanks for the replies.
I think you guys are way over my head.

I guess the question I was really asking was:
When you have a song that starts on and resolves to an E chord, but has a D chord as a part of the melody, do you just refer to that as 'in the key of E (with a flat 7 chord thrown in) or do you use some other terminology. Such as calling it the key of A since it uses A, B, D, & E (standard I, II, IV, V) chords, but call it myxolydian since it resolves to the E.

I think I just don't have a clear enough concept of when to speak of modes, versus just saying what key it's in.

Am I totally confused?? (Yeah, probably) And asking about stuff I don't need to know?

Phil

[Walter Newton]

When you have a song that starts on and resolves to an E chord, but has a D chord as a part of the melody, do you just refer to that as #'in the key of E (with a flat 7 chord thrown in) or do you use some other terminology. #Such as calling it the key of A since it uses A, B, D, & E (standard I, II, IV, V) chords, but call it myxolydian since it resolves to the E.
If the tonality is E and the melody uses the scale E F# G# A B C# D E - same as E major but with the D natural (b7) note - you can say it is in E mixolydian, or more commonly people will just say it's in E. #The E, A, B, D chords in this case would be referred to as I, IV, V, bVII. #

Yes the notes are the same as in the key of A but NO you wouldn't call it A mixolydian - that would be for a tune with an A tonality, and a scale the same as A major but with a G natural b7 note.

A couple of common fiddle tunes you might be familiar with that are Mixolydian are Red Haired Boy and Old Joe Clark.

[groveland]

We can't put this one in a single box, folks: The tune actually doesn't completely fit E mixolydian in melody with the C# D D# and E in it, nor in harmony where mixo would have I7 iimi7 iiim7(b5) IVma7 vmi7 vimi7 and bVIIma7. (Nor does it have to fit.) This tune (in the sample) sports a I (and I7) IV7 V7 and bVII, and a variety of blues things going on.

[Walter Newton]

We can't put this one in a single box, folks: The tune actually doesn't completely fit E mixolydian in melody
Thanks for pointing this out, as I tried to say in my original post I'm not referring to this song specifically but to more general theory concepts.

[Philphool]

If the tonality is E and the melody uses the scale E F# G# A B C# D E - same as E major but with the D natural (b7) note - you can say it is in E mixolydian, or more commonly people will just say it's in E. The E, A, B, D chords in this case would be referred to as I, IV, V, bVII.
...
Thanks Walter,

You answered my primary question. I think I understand it better than when we started. I appreciate the comments of all of you.
Don't you just love the way music makes you think, and feel!!

Phil

[Peter Hackman]

The mandozine tef file juxtaposes Monroe's and Grisman's versions.
Both are blues treatments of a familiar progression - apparently Monroe wrote his piece of You'll See her Name Written There by Harold Hensely, a session musician in Hollywood. The D chord is largely ignored - the d note sounds in context much more like the bvii of E - and there is definitely not a D7 feeling to it.

The transcription and midi file (I can't verify their accuracy) exemplify Monroe's fondness of playing the tonic (e) over the dominant chord (B7) in one place.
Grisman's version has a very monroeish phrase in bar 21. My general feeling is that Monroes' version is dirtier, but rhythmically a bit stiff in places.

[CollingsPicker]

That Stuff Is Way Too Confusing Ot Me:blues:
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