Compulsive purchase- Flatiron 1N [Archive]

bratsche

Jun-02-2004, 8:02am

Hey, I did the same thing as you when I happened upon a 1N mandola on eBay last year with an outrageously low Buy-it-Now (even less than yours, but a gig bag instead of a hard case). I figured "Hit that button now, ask questions later". It wouldn't last long otherwise. Well, that was one of my lucky days. It is really a great sounding and playing instrument, and one I have no plans to sell. Of my three mandolas, it is usually the "go to" one lately. It even has a fair amount of figure in the wood for the lesser-appointed model.

Now, for all you Flatiron 1N owners with better eyes than mine - I see a second label on the inside, way up under the neck, but can't make out everything it says. Can anyone help me out here? (I assume the mandolins have it too).

bratsche

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-02-2004, 8:50am

The second label you are referring to mentions using light gauge strings. I'll have to give it a second look when I get home for it might say more than that.

I love this little 1N! If you see one of these floating around, pounce upon it quickly. You will have no regrets http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-02-2004, 8:55pm

The 2nd label states the Mandolin is made from solid woods and should not be exposed to extreme temperatures and humidity. It also lists the recommended string gauges for each string. Bruce Weber told me to use light gauge strings on the 1N.

bratsche

Jun-03-2004, 1:30pm

Thanks, pNg -

The only thing "wrong" with my mandola when I got it was that the previous owner was using really heavy strings (probably D'Addario). They were completely stifling the potential tone! I switched immediately to GHS light mandola strings, and the tone has been opening up ever since. Guess I'm lucky that nothing warped. As for the first part, I live in South Florida, the land of extreme heat and humidity, and I wouldn't take the instrument outdoors ever in the summertime (which lasts most of the year!)

bratsche

atetone

Jun-03-2004, 7:54pm

So,, does the label give the suggested string guages, or does it just say light strings?

Bowzette

Jun-04-2004, 6:37am

mine suggest the actual gagues, the "G" is 36 and the "E" is 10. Martin has a pack with these gagues. I may determine if the TI mediums are approximately equal to the Martins and try a set of them next time. The "E" string with the Martins is loud, cuts like a lazer, but seems "harsh" to me.

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-04-2004, 6:49am

The label lists the following string guages:

1st - .010
2nd - .013
3rd - .024
4th - .036

I checked the label this morning and while the Mandolin was out, I had to play it for awhile. Wound up being late for work! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

The tone and volume from this little flat top is amazing

atetone

Jun-04-2004, 7:21am

Late for work!!!, yeah me too but here I sit.
Thanks for the string guage info.

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-04-2004, 10:59am

atetone-

I checked the ebay sale and you indeed got a great deal on your 1N!! I'm still looking for a hard shell case for mine.

Enjoy the heck out of this one - it's a classic. The Flatiron company has a great history and some of the best Mandolin builders out there today have been associated with the company.

Maybe we need to start a Flatiron 1N/2N/3N thread like the endless BRW thread. Only 26 more pages to go. We need to get Scotti one of these 1N's http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

OK...you better get to work

fatt-dad

Jun-04-2004, 1:08pm

So, is the goal to add more and more postings to this thread and see how many pages we can get - ha? I am preparing to get my 1N out and look for this sticker that tells me what strings to use. I will report back with serial number and sticker details. There, that will add another posting.

f-d

atetone

Jun-04-2004, 4:46pm

Well it looks like I might be waiting a while before I can post any thoughts on mine. The vendor has not received the money order yet even though I mailed it priority post on Monday.
I hate the waiting part.

bratsche

Jun-04-2004, 5:16pm

So, is the goal to add more and more postings to this thread and see how many pages we can get - ha?

Sure, fatt-dad, why not? We don't need no steenkin' BRWs anyway. ;)

FWIW, the mandola string recommendations are .012 .021 .032 and .049. Not exactly the same as the GHS set I'm using, but close enough.

Does anyone else's Flatiron N1 smell as nice as this mandola? I've never had an instrument smell so fragrant, other than my all-mahogany MidMo M-11 (which I had to sell). It surprises me for a maple/spruce instrument. My MidMo M-2 doesn't smell like this!

bratsche

Dan Adams

Jun-04-2004, 5:19pm

I've been watching this post and I hope the Gibson Flatirons are as nice as the originals! I own a Flatiron 2M, and it is the loudest mandolin in the herd. I hope Gibson held the line true to its founders! I have a friend with a 3M, and it iw the sweetest maple mandolin!!! I hope yours holds true to the tradition, if so, it is a great investment. What about the !N in the classified ads?
God Luck, Dan

bratsche

Jun-04-2004, 6:47pm

So now I'm confused - how do you know if you have an original?? Are the Gibson-made ones labeled "Flatiron" or "Gibson"?

I see a Cadet in the classifieds, BTW, but not a 1N...

bratsche http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

fatt-dad

Jun-04-2004, 7:15pm

O.K. I am being sucked in. My 1N is serial number 84052747. All I can divine from it is that it was made in 1984. Others seem to read more into the serial numbers for Flatiron, but I remain confused. What I do know is that it was made prior to Gibson's purchase of the Flatiron Mandolin company.

My 1N does not have a truss rod or truss rod cover (wonder why I added the last part, eh). It does have the sticker that references the string gauges. Mine says recommended string gauges, 0.010, 0.013, 0.024, and 0.036. That said, I have GHS silk and steels on it, which have less string tension but heavier gauge diameters (especially on the wound courses. (I like the silk and steel strings and use them also on my A-3.)

My mandolin came in a hard shell case with orange-colored plush lining, but the more remarkable thing about the case it has alot of clasps. For such a compact case, there are five clasps and the two hinges - go figure.

When Gibson bought the Flatiron Mandolin company, they also made the 1N, 2N, 3N, etc mandolins. At some point (don't ask me) truss rod covers with adjustible truss rods showed up. (I can't be sure whether the pre-Gibson 2 or 3Ns had truss rods though.) I have never played one of these, I have just read descriptions and seen classified listings.

When Gibson ended the Flatiron line and moved to Nashville, they (apparently) continued to make a "flatiron style" mandolin. It looks just like the 1N, but has no markings on the headstock, other than a truss rod cover that says "Gibson". Under the truss rod cover there is nothing but wood.

The Post-Flatiron, Gibson Nashville 1N style mandolin is a toy. There is no solid wood to be had, there are no decals, the bracing is installed like lumber, etc. I had one, that played o.k., but it was not long in my collection. I sold it for what it was and got $200.00 in a gig bag. In another few years it may be worth $180.00 - who knows.

I sent a message to Gibson on their version of the 1N and they indicated that it was made at Opry Mills as a tourist item for the souvenier shop, not so much for the mandolin player. I got the one that I had when they donated it to a fundraiser, which I purchased it from. Nothing sneeky on their part, no problems here either, but also no replacement or alternate to the 1N. Note also that the Opry version of the 1N does not bear any of the warrantee decals and is sold with a 90 day warrantee (according to Gibson).

So there, now we may have something to talk about, but I may not have much more to add. Other than to say, one of these days, I may need a refret on mine and the last guy either took off or wore off the neck finish. All I know is it's seen lots of wear and is fun to play.

fatt-dad

atetone

Jun-04-2004, 8:09pm

A couple of years ago I almost made the mistake of buying one of the "toy" pancake mandolins. The seller made it quite plain that it was not a very good mando but I of course figured that I knew more than him and that he didn't know what he was talking about.
Well, it turned out that he ended up educating me to the fact that it was a knockoff of the Flatiron being sold by Gibson at the Gibson Showcase.
He told me that he was told they were made in Asia.
Since then I have seen a couple of more of them around. They are a sort of orange to brown sunburst.
You have to be careful of these or you will be in for a big disappointment.
I am a big fan of Gibson because they treated me royally when I had a problem with my A5L. Charlie and Big Joe went above and beyond what I expected from them and were fabulous about the whole thing.
I wish that Gibson hadn't started selling these copies though. Even though Gibson is not trying to trick people with this, someone is going to mistakenly get burned on one of these on the used market.

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-04-2004, 9:28pm

Nice job fatt-dad! Mine is a 96 Signature Series 1N and it has a truss rod and an truss rod cover #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif This 96 is a Gibson era Flatiron and it is the only pancake style Flatiron I've seen or played. Could be among the last made in Montana before they moved to Nashville.

Flatiron was around in the early 80's then in 87, they were bought out by Gibson. In December of 96, Gibson moved the operation.

FD- I would venture to say that yours was made on May 27 of 84 amd the 47th 1N made that year.

The neck profile on the 1N is very comfortable to play. I believe it may be a tad bit wider at the nut than my Yellowstone.

The Cadet is from the Performer Series. Supposedly the Performer Series was Flatiron's entry line, then Signature Series, Artist Series and Master.

bratsche

Jun-04-2004, 9:57pm

Do the first 2 numbers of the serial no. denote the year made? If so, then my mandola is a '96 Signature Series also.

You guys know about these (http://www.gibson.com/products/flatiron/1996/index.html) pages, right? Mine is just like the natural mandola on the lower right picture here (http://www.gibson.com/products/flatiron/1996/model1.html), except that it doesn't have the tailpiece pictured, the decal is light colored, rather than dark, and someone has stuck on a clear pickguard (ugh). Still can't complain, because the sound is great, and so was the price!

I can't believe Gibson put a truss rod cover over the plain wood on their toy replicas. Is that a tacky touch, or what? LOL

bratsche

atetone

Jun-05-2004, 9:18am

Bratsche, obviously you like your 1N mandola. What other ones do you have that you are comparing it to and how does it stack up?
Are your other ones carved or flatops and how different are they in tone, loudness etc..?

fatt-dad

Jun-05-2004, 9:44am

O.K. so now we are on our second page. I also like the neck profile on the 1N. Here is what is slated for today. Considering that the silk and steels are the wrong gauge, I am going to restring with medium lights. As I was playing today, I noticed that the action seemed high up the neck and as there is no adjustment, I figure that with the lighter gauge strings, I will have somewhat easier time noting up there. So, report to follow.

Regarding the Flatiron link, I have seen that before. It is a good one. I have only great things to say about my Flatirons, however neither are from the Gibson era. That said, my A5-1 is a great mandolin (I know that everybody says that about their favorite mandolin, but I hear this from people who are playing their favorite mandolins - ha).

Fatt-dad

fatt-dad

Jun-05-2004, 6:27pm

I hate to post and then post again, but there is a 1N on ebay with 2 days remaining, no reserve and at $102.50 right now. Who knows where it will end up, but interesting - eh?

Put my GHS phosphor bronze med lights today (as specified) and all is well. It is interesting how different it plays as the silk and steels were larger diameter even though they do not have much tension. The medium lights have made the playability much better and the sound is real good too!

f-d

atetone

Jun-06-2004, 4:12pm

fatt-dad, where did you see that one on ebay? What catagory? I can't seem to find it.

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-06-2004, 4:37pm

I couldn't find it either. The seller may have ended the auction.

fatt-dad

Jun-06-2004, 5:09pm

Go to the main ebay page and type flatiron 1N into the search. I'll be there and it's now at $150 with one day left.

f-d

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-06-2004, 5:56pm

OK. I see it. I was doing a search for a Flatiron Mandolin and it does not come up. You have to add 1N to get there http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

There is a 1N a 2MB and a 3K all for sale on Ebay. The 2MB has some killer Bird's Eye on the back side.

fatt-dad

Jun-06-2004, 7:32pm

So maybe I'll steal the 2mb, ha - my first Gibson-era Flatiron. Then again, I won't get my hopes up, I really do need to sell some pac-rim for the present.

f-d

racuda

Jun-07-2004, 1:56pm

Hey Racuda,, I will trade you straight across for that scratched up old mando that you got #with that guys aunts' intitials scribbled all over it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I appreciate the offer, but you wouldn't believe what I went through to get that mando - and besides, the scribbled initials are very faint on the back. I don't even notice anymore. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

atetone

Jun-07-2004, 4:50pm

Racuda, I was just kidding you about the scratches. I am sure you did go through a lot of trouble to get it. That's why I backed out. Didn't think he would deliver.
For those of you that don't know, Racuda picked up an A2Z cheap. It was a "throw in" on a deal for an old non-descript bowlback that the owner thought was the real desirable mandolin.
Great story.
Sorry to go off topic.

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-08-2004, 9:26am

OK folks-

The 1N on Ebay sold last night for (get this) $157.00! The auction closed at midnight. As I watched it end, I thought, why am I not bidding on this? I was gearing up for a possible bidding war with ole8string! Never mind the fact that I already have a sweet 96 1N. I suppose I could have used another one to keep in my office. How bad does that sound? We may never see one go for this price again. It did have some minor issues with it but heck, for $157.00 I would have, could have should have...sigh
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

fatt-dad

Jun-08-2004, 10:21am

Feeling your pain - the one that I paid $300.00 for had some issues with it also. How do you deal with the problem, when you have too many mandolins (heck we could get pages of postings over that statement), some of which you may never make a dime on and then comes along a mandolin that you could make a $100 bucks on? How can I communicate the wisdom of buying another mandolin to anyone outside of this newsgroup (i.e., my wife)? What is it about kids, shoes, cars, etc that make them more important then more mandolins - ha?

Oh well, where did we start here - oh yeah, someone picked up a 1N on an impulse. I can only hope that whoever bought the 1N last night enjoys it.

f-d

atetone

Jun-08-2004, 4:56pm

Yes, I watched that one close too and wondered why I didn't go after it, but since I have one in the mail on its way to me and have never tried one before, I resisted.
That is cheap though even with the issues that it had.
Oh well, you can't have them all.

Tom C

Jun-09-2004, 5:24am

On Ebay there is currently a 3K and a 2MB. How do these compare to the N1.
These were made in 92 and 96.

fatt-dad

Jun-09-2004, 5:30am

Oh no, someone else headed for the 2MB. I may have to bow out, but you have to continue posting on this thread.

Unless I'm mistaken (we can discuss if I am), the 1N and the 2N (or in this case the 2MB) are very similar with the 2 having different wood (in the case of the one on ebay, birds-eye maple) and the 2 having the adjustible truss rod. I'm not really sure, but I figure if I make some claims, someone who really knows will set the record straight - ha.

fatt-dad

Tom C

Jun-09-2004, 6:25am

I shouldn't be a threat unless it's alast minute thing.

Bowzette

Jun-09-2004, 11:52am

have you seen the one just posted in the classifieds?

Tom C

Jun-09-2004, 12:07pm

Whatdoes the "C" mean? Cedar top?

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-09-2004, 2:08pm

Good question. I've not heard of this type of a Flatiron having a Cedar top. The one in the classifieds has some very nice looking flame!

Welcome to this thread. We only have 28 some pages to go to catch up to the BRW thread http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Tom C

Jun-09-2004, 7:02pm

My other mando is a Flatiron performer F I can't say enough about. But I would consider a relatively inexpensive round 'ole Flatiron mando for a different tone.

fatt-dad

Jun-09-2004, 8:09pm

Today's report. See the following:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....03&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3729556903&rd=1)

This is a "Gibson" plywood with truss rod cover (truss rod not included).

Please welcome the fellow asking about the "3" in the classifieds. Hopefully s/he will find us here. That said, does anybody know the real difference between the "1", "2" and "3" series. I think we figured the letters stand for the wood or finish, something like that.

f-d

Tom C

Jun-10-2004, 6:54am

...And here is another Flatiron. This is a CH-1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3729531164&rd=1)

......Mmmm Orange

Tom C

Jun-10-2004, 7:02am

... Or get the orig Gibson Army-Navy Gibson DY (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3729631279&rd=1)

...Mmmmm Lime

Jim M.

Jun-10-2004, 8:49am

All of those flat Flatirons had adjustable truss rods. All had spruce tops, no cedar. The difference between 1, 2 & 3 was wood and finish details.
#1 = Plainer woods, no binding or rosette, rosewood fingerboard
#2 = Fancier maple (koa was an option) binding but no rosette, ebony fingerboard
#3 = Same as 2 but had binding and rosette

I don't know all the letters but some are:
#MB = Birdseye maple
MC = Curly maple
N = Natural finish
#CH = "Chocolate" finish
# C = "Cherry" finish (I think)
# K = Koa

fatt-dad

Jun-10-2004, 9:00am

Jim M,

Thanks for getting us to page 3. Regarding the "1" series, the early ones did not have adjustible truss rods. Maybe when Gibson took over the factory they became standard, but my 1N from '84 does not have an adjustible truss rod - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Very interesting description on the meanings of the numbers and letters - thanks again.

fatt-dad

Jim M.

Jun-10-2004, 9:03am

You're right, sorry, I should have specified that those were post-Gibson takeover. One of the options available was f-holes. Has anyone seen those on the flattops? Anyone have a Flatiron mandola they want to sell?

Tom C

Jun-10-2004, 9:14am

The 1992 3K on Ebay does not have a Truss Rod. The 1996 2MB does. Which would you choose?

Jim M.

Jun-10-2004, 9:24am

Personally I wouldn't worry about lack of adjustable truss rod. Those are well-built instruments, and there are plenty of non-adjustable truss rod Gibson A's that have survived many years. I'd buy the koa because I like the sound and would want to add something other than maple to my herd. I'm not bidding on it, so don't worry about me.

Tom C

Jun-10-2004, 10:28am

I have festivals and the suymposium coming up so I can hold off also unless they really stay that low in price.

lucho

Jun-10-2004, 10:34am

I own a 1988 2MW and it doesn't have an adjustable truss rod, so I think adjustable truss rods showed up years after the Gibson take over. BTW, MW stand for wavy maple. I also own a 1984 3K OM and despite size considerations when compared to other maple back instruments.... tone could be nice but volume lacking. So if you are planning to use a mando in sessions I would suggest the maple back mando.
BTW, I am also interested in Army Navy style mandolas.... Flatiron didn't make many so they are more than rare. Bratsche's mandola is one of the few that I discovered in ebay... too late to get it. So if you want a AN mandola, options are very few, Sawchyn in Canada make some nice copies as AN models for near Ca$900... #I have heard good things about sawchyn instruments... Has anybody tried them?...
salu2

bratsche

Jun-10-2004, 12:47pm

atetone - all three of my mandolas are flat top/back instruments with a round or oval hole, as well as all being made from spruce and maple. I also have a Troubador Gervaise (discussed in a different thread) and a Sawchyn Beaver Tail (hi, lucho! - this will interest you too!) The Gervaise, while it has a great tone, is not yet living up to its potential, because it still has incomplete setup issues that I haven't had time to attend to (faulty intonation due to too high zero fret). The Sawchyn is absolutely perfect in every way! I love it! And it is very, very similar, both in sound and feel, to the Flatiron. I was eyeing Flatirons before a member of the Cafe offered to sell me the Sawchyn. The Flatiron, however, is the one I grab first, for a couple of reasons, nothing to do with sound. One, it has already received its first few scratches, and I dread the day that I mar the Sawchyn for the first time! And two, its fretboard is not bound - while I've not yet had to have fret work done on any of my instruments, I'd hate to wear the frets out on the Sawchyn from repeated practicing to learn pieces well, knowing that it would be the more costly one to re-fret due to its bound fretboard! But they really are very similar. The Sawchyn is a "deluxe" though, and a little fancier - radiused ebony fretboard, the binding, and some inlaid rings around the soundhole. The Gervaise is somewhat different, with its bigger body, smaller soundhole and shorter scale. But they're all nice...

bratsche

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-10-2004, 1:15pm

OHhhhI should have bought the 1N that sold for $157.00 #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

The Cadets appear to be the same instruments with a different finish. Also, I've noticed the 2N's have binding on the top only.

Dan Adams

Jun-10-2004, 4:23pm

The 3MC in the classifieds is a really nice mandolin. I've played it a few times. Its beautiful to look at, and has a nice rounded tone. For the condition that one is in, I think it is a great price. My 2M in from 83, early Flatiron, and is a great Celtic mandolin. No truss rod in the early years though. I hope somebody local, here on the cafe, picks the one up in the classifieds.

Slim pickins on those Flatirons, Dan

atetone

Jun-10-2004, 10:50pm

Well, my 1N arrived all in one piece.
I have to say that I was very taken aback when I opened the rather small case.
This mando is very small!!! I didn't realize just how small these things are.
There is nothing small about the sound that jumps right out of it though.
It is kind of mystifying how that kind of sound comes out of that little box.
I look at it and my brain says "tiny skinny box with way too much bracing. Hardly any room left for a soundwave to even move around in there",,, but the sound just jumps right out at you and is startlingly loud.
It doesn't seem possible but,, there it is.
Amazing. I find myself looking at it and thinking "how did they do that??"
Anyway, I took the rusty strings, bridge, tuners and tailpiece off it and cleaned everything really well and put it back together and strung it up with
D'Addario J62s and then whomped on it for a couple of hours.
I suspect that this mando has not been played for a long time.
It was very tight at first and would not stay in tune, but I expected that.
This mando came from Florida to me here in Western Canada so it will probably take a while before it acclimatizes.
Either it is starting to loosen up or I am getting more used to it but I am now expecting it to improve greatly over the next fews days.
It's pretty good already.
I will keep you posted on the progress.

fatt-dad

Jun-11-2004, 9:33am

Hey, my 1N came from Canada to Richmond, Virginia.

Great to hear your story. I was playing mine last night and had similar thoughts on size and sound. Amazing, eh?

f-d

fatt-dad

Jun-11-2004, 10:16am

O.K., so here I do it again - posting after a post. Having just scanned ebay, I note the following. The plywood "Gibson Flatiron" is up to $300.00, the 2MB is under $200.00, nobody is the least bit interested in the 3 for $600.00 and there are two KM-11 (Kalamazoo pancake) that are begging in the $200 to $300.00 range (another great flat-top oval hole mandolin. For the under $300 market, the 2mb and the KM-11s are the way to go (IMHO).

f-d

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-12-2004, 10:09am

Hey All-

How do you attach a strap to your Flatiron? A strap button on the heel? Tied off to the headstock? Don't use a strap?

fatt-dad

Jun-12-2004, 2:48pm

I tie my strip of rawhide around the headstock, going under the strings and between the tuners. What I actually to is get three rawhide shoelaces, braid them together and then end the braid with one sticking out for tying on to the end pin and also around the headstock.

f-d

Bowzette

Jun-12-2004, 7:36pm

has anyone played a koa model?

mandomick

Jun-14-2004, 5:16pm

I'm about 20 minutes from the Cadet in the classifieds and bought my 1st mando 4 yrs ago from the seller.(family had a great small town music store)

Where do these cadets fit in with the models discussed here? The $595 asking price seems high but I don't have a clue as to what I'm looking at.

fatt-dad

Jun-17-2004, 11:45am

Herein lies the death of the Flatiron 1N thread. No match for "thinking about a BRW". Alas, on to other topics.

f-d

RolandTumble

Jun-20-2004, 2:49am

Hey, if you want quantity, it takes time...(or is that quality?).

I just found the thread, so I'm only now chiming in. I own a 2M, serial 8105921 (with the five-latch HSC). I love it, but it's actually not my go-to-first mandolin (right now--kinda goes in cycles). It is on my not-for-sale list, though.

I'd mentioned, in passing, to Ken Cartwright that I wanted one.... Years later I walked into his shop & he said "There's your Flatiron." I'd just received a prob'ly-teens Vega (flat back, two point) from an eBay purchase (this one is my current main axe), so I was kind of strapped for cash. I didn't even want to play it, 'cause I knew I'd be hooked. I failed to resist temptation, and put it on layaway before I left....

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-23-2004, 6:02pm

Where can one find a hard shell case for a Flatiron 1N???

fatt-dad

Jun-23-2004, 7:19pm

Call TKL in Oilville, Virginia and they may have something that works. I did some research on Flatiron cases, and I think that they used Harptone cases. TKL bought Harptone and was in the process of moving the forms from the Harptone shop to Virginia. Whether they did it or not is unclear.

Good luck,

fatt-dad

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-23-2004, 8:18pm

F-D
I was thinking that TKL might have something. I'll give them a call tomorrow.

How about the BRW thread getting shut down! About time #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

atetone

Jun-23-2004, 8:41pm

The hardshell case that came with mine is definately made for the mandolin.
Very form fitted. Snug as a bug.
I assume that it was a factory supplied case. It's a pretty good one.

fatt-dad

Jun-24-2004, 5:30am

Here is the TKL phone number in Oilville, Virginia - 804-749-8300. I have no real opinion on the BRW thread, as I never made an attempt to read through the personal chat to learn about the BRW mandolin. I guess if there are cafe members that get some enjoyment discussing a "mandolin-related" topic I do not see the harm with it continuing. But then, it's not my web page - ha.

f-d

racuda

Jun-24-2004, 6:07am

atetone, I was wondering..since you have had your 1N for a couple of weeks now what do you think?

Nathan Sanders

Jun-29-2004, 9:42am

I have been reading a lot of the posts about the Flatiron 1N. They are awesome. I bought mine in 1993. And it was definitely the sound that sold me. Later I bought a hardshell case for it from Elderly. For a strap I bought a set of shoe laces, actually for lace up boots, and tied an end to the headstock and the other end to the strap button. Mostly I've used D'Addario J74 strings.

My 1N is not for sale, however, I just acquired a 1994 1CH that is for sale. It is in excellent shape and it has a hard shell case. I will have pictures available very soon.

Nathan Sanders

Jun-30-2004, 7:26am

Pictures are now available of the Flatiron 1CH:

1994 Flatiron 1CH (http://www.stringband.com/mandolin.htm)

Thanks!

fatt-dad

Jul-04-2004, 7:23pm

Please post here if you are able to get $650.00 for your 1ch. It sounds ambitious, but for the patient seller, it may be the right price. I would like to know if you are successful. When I bought my 1N (pre-gibson), I paid almost $400.00 for it. In actual fact, I think I overpaid for it, in that there is substantial pick wear on the top, which some looser added stain to to blend the colors. Bad idea and bad job all rolled into a few brush strokes. Also, the finish on the neck was removed and there is some fret wear. So I knew that I was buying some blemish along with wear. I also factored in the fact that it was a 1984 flatiron, which offset some of the earlier sins.

So, is a mint 1ch (gibson) right for $650.00? I'd like to know.

Good luck.

fatt-dad.

pickinNgrinnin

Jul-05-2004, 3:50pm

FD-

I was pretty lucky to pick up my 96 1N for $300.00. It is in very good condition - just a few dings and a few finish checks. I'd be interested to see if this 1CH sells for the asking price. More from a curiosity factor though. I doubt I would sell my 1N - unless a very fine 2N or 3N fell my way

Nathan Sanders

Jul-05-2004, 8:33pm

Thanks for the interest! I will keep you informed of how the sell goes. If you are interested, I have it listed on ebay at the moment:

Flatiron 1CH on EBAY (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3733724245&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT)

Nathan Sanders

Jul-07-2004, 9:56am

Well, my ebay listing for the Flatiron 1CH just ended without reaching my Reserve price, which was lower than what I have been asking for it other places, including my ad on Mandolin Cafe. So, the 1CH is still for sale. I'd still like to have $650.00 for it, but I will consider other offers. Thanks!

fatt-dad

Jul-07-2004, 8:04pm

Dear 1N Newsgroup,

Does anybody have a reference to the most recent "list" (i.e., not street) prices for the various Flatiron "pancakes"? I guess that would be somewhere in the 1998 or 1999 range, you know what did the 1N, 1CH, 2N, etc. list for?

Using the list price, we could then figure that the actual wholesale price would have been about half. That to me would be the maximum price one could expect for a pancake today (excluding other factors - i.e., bad finish touchups, rough shape, missig the case, etc.)

(can you tell that I am an engineer in my other life?)

fatt-dad

pickinNgrinnin

Jul-07-2004, 8:31pm

FD-

Paula Jean Lewis at Sound to Earth/Weber would (likely) be able to dig up some list prices on the flat-tops Flatirons.

It seems to me - based upon ebay prices and the cafe classifieds, that these little Mandolins have held their value over the years. I too would be curious to find out what they listed for.

Nathan Sanders

Jul-08-2004, 7:46am

They have held their value. They are great sounding mandolins. I do know a year or two ago, a local guitar store, which deals in new and vintage, Martin, Gibson, and other such stuff, had a very nice condition 1N with a price on it of $650. I forget what year it was built, but it was a Bozeman era and in excellent shape. I checked back later on it and they had sold it for what they were asking.

I acquired a 1N last year from an individual for a couple of hundred. The label inside said something like built for some person, by the Gibson Nashville folks. It was pretty plain, did not have the glossy finish and no name on the peghead, but it did say Gibson inside. I think it may have had Gibson on the truss rod cover. Anyway, it sounded and played just great like it should. I ended up selling it on EBAY and doubled my money.

pickinNgrinnin

Jul-08-2004, 4:26pm

The flat-top Mandolins made in Nashville should not be confused/compared to the ones that were made in Montana. The Nashville made ones were more toy like or novelty items. The ones made in Montana were the real deal - pre Gibson and post Gibson, did not matter on this series. Lots of folks talk about pre and post Gibson with the Flatiron line but IMO, the pre/post did not matter in regard to these flat-tops. Essentially the same people were making them during the Montana years.

fatt-dad

Jul-08-2004, 7:57pm

FYI,

Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3735397927&rd=1) is an ebay auction with a $500.00 "buy it now" for a 1983, pre-Gibson 1N.

f-d

JiminRussia

Jul-11-2004, 6:30pm

I got a pre-Gibson 1N about two months ago and paid what I thought at that time was a little too much. Maybe I was just being cheap, I don't know. Today I do not regret it at all. I was fortunate in that I was dealing with an honorable man that had depicted the mandolin very acurately. It had a few issues, but nothing that a re-humidifyng, a seam repair and a bridge lowering didn't cure. Including the repair I have about $560.00 invested and I now don't have any wories about taking my mandolin to jams, festials, traveling, etc. I can leave my Newson F-5 at home when I have any doubts and can still fight of the attacks by the banjo players of the world.
The sound from it using, D'Addario FT74 flat tops is great. It is balanced and very clear. The playability is wonderful and the volume is, well it still amazes me that this little guy can shout so loud. I remember having read that when Gibson took over the factory in 1988 or '89 or thereabouts that they began their serial number run with a "9", Previous to that all of the real Flatirons had numbers begining with "8". BY the way, it came with that five clasp case that you guys were talking about and the fit is as described, perfect, tighter than a knot in green lumber.

Nathan Sanders

Jul-29-2004, 5:20pm

I still have a 1994 Flatiron 1CH mandolin for sale. Check out the Classifieds on Mandolin Cafe, ad #10211. Thanks!

John Jesseph

Jul-30-2004, 2:06pm

I need to track down my 1N. I didn't realize they were so in-demand. I could sell any of my other mandos, but the 1N and my Red Diamond are gonna be hard to part with.

fatt-dad

Aug-03-2004, 5:27am

Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3740225777&rd=1) is a pre-Gibson 2N on ebay right now under $200.00 with no reserve. It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

f-d

pickinNgrinnin

Aug-03-2004, 9:32pm

Looks like ole8string is back doing some cad bidding. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Have not seen him/her on the Mando trail for awhile. A fast starter but does not have a finishing kick.

fatt-dad

Aug-09-2004, 6:42pm

Ebay still has a Flatiron 2M(ending up around $478.00)f-dhere's the link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3740225777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)) and there is a 2mc or something close in the cafe classifieds for the great price of $375 - fyi.

Dan Adams

Aug-09-2004, 7:20pm

See the 2MC in the classifieds? Its worth 1/2 again plus what is being asked. That one is a steal!! I certainly hope a Cafe Member grabs that one before its gone! Good Luck! Dan

Ipnter

Aug-09-2004, 7:39pm

I was going to bid on that 2m at the last minute, but somebody else had the same idea (and a bigger wallet it seems). I'm also looking to buy the 2mc in the classifieds, but I'm not the first in line http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif .

In order to make this something more then a "whine about not winning an ebay bid" post, I was wondering if any of you mandolin experts could pontificate about the differences between mid-Missouri mandolins and these flatirons being discussed. I'm wanting to buy my first mandolin and these are the two kinds I've narrowed it down to.

fatt-dad

Aug-10-2004, 5:52am

Sig,

Not being an expert, having never played a Mid-Mo and only having the benefit of owning my 1N, all I can say is it is fun to play, gets alot of attention for its tone and volume and seems to be a good "investment". Just be careful not to get a Gibson Flatiron, which is made for tourist sales in Nashville. As long as the label on the inside says Flatiron (whether under the ownership of Gibson or not is immaterial).

Hope I am not confusing you. Let's try again. Flatiron made these pancake mandolins from the early 1980s through the late 1990s. Somewhere in the middle of this time, Gibson bought out the Flatiron Mandolin company. So, there are pre- and post-Gibson FLATIRON mandolins. Somewhere near the turn of the millenium, Gibson moved their mandolin making to Nashville (where they make great mandolins). However, they quit making the pancake as a real instrument. Instead, they make it as a commercial toy with plywood and heavier bracing. The overall quality is not where it used to be. So, enjoy the hunt. If it weren't for the fact that you have narrowned down the hunt to a Flatiron or a Mid-Mo, I would offer you several choices of mandolins in the under $250.00 range.

fatt-dad

fatt-dad

Aug-10-2004, 10:04am

New on Ebay - here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3741491822&rd=1) - if you are interested just track it and see where it sells. So far it is in the $300.00 range.

Also, I noticed that there is a Mid Mo on ebay at the opening bid of $295.00.

(nothing in either of these for fatt-dad - fyi only.)

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Aug-13-2004, 7:19am

Concerning the Flatiron 2MC in the Classifieds....I bought it, if anyone is interested. It's a great mandolin in great shape.

pickinNgrinnin

Aug-13-2004, 3:03pm

Looks like ole8string is on the ebay prowl again http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

F5dude - do you have the 2MC already??

QUOTE: "It's a great mandolin in great shape".

Not to mention at a great price too!

jlb

Aug-13-2004, 3:27pm

I wonder how folks compare these to the new Weber flattops. I got a bargain-basement deal on an Aspen #2, and while its no banjo killer, I think it is one of my best mandos tone-wise...better tone than any carved top Weber I've ever played.

Nathan Sanders

Aug-14-2004, 11:52am

Yes I have the 2mc in my possession.

pickinNgrinnin

Aug-14-2004, 2:37pm

f5dude- Do you have any pictures you could post?

Tell us more about it!

Nathan Sanders

Aug-16-2004, 10:56pm

Yes, I do have pictures available now of the Flatiron 2mc. You may view them here:Flatiron 2mc mandolin (http://www.stringband.com/2mc.htm)

Their is a brief description of the mandolin on the page. If you have further questions or want to make an offer let me know.

Thanks

sgarrity

Aug-17-2004, 8:41pm

Hhhhmmmmmmmmmm.........Looks like I made a mistake. You live and you learn I reckon. I had the 2MC that was in the classifieds. I paid $200 for it about 2 years ago. Since then I bought a Weber Bridger and a Ratliff F5, so the 2MC never got played. I hope someone gets it that will actually use it. I had it listed on the classifieds earlier this year for $400 and no one bought it. Where were all of ya then??? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Anyway, it is one fine mandolin and in near perfect shape.

Happy pickin'
Shaun

fatt-dad

Aug-18-2004, 2:35pm

What's up with that? You get three mandolins and need to sell one? How many years of therapy did it take to get to that point? Whew, I don't know whether I could do that - ha.

I don't think I will sell my 1N, as what else compares to it? The closest thing that I have is my Kalamazoo pancake (circa 1930s), but I think the Flatiron pancake will go down in mandolin history as a great little mandolin.

f-d

pickinNgrinnin

Aug-18-2004, 7:33pm

[QUOTE]I think the Flatiron pancake will go down in mandolin history as a great little mandolin.

The history of the Flatiron pancakes has already been written. They are no longer made and the name is now part of Mandolin history. A great little Mandolin indeed! I can't see selling my 1N unless (like I've said) a killer flame or bird's eye 2N comes along
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

fatt-dad

Aug-18-2004, 8:24pm

touche, pNg. . . .

Here is the correction, "the Flatiron pancake is going down in history", or is it,
"the Flatiron pancake has gone down in history"? Whew!

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Sep-06-2004, 1:11pm

Just to update, I just sold the Flatiron 2MC. Thanks!!

fatt-dad

Sep-06-2004, 4:15pm

Congratulations! Hope you didn't have to go down too far. It is surly a pretty mandolin and I'm sure it will impress the next owner.

fatt-dad

Oct-20-2004, 5:26am

Latest good buy from ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3754693142&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT)

Incredible that a 2MC went for $316.01. I thought about going higher, but did not hear from the seller during the auction. That can be a bad thing.

f-d

pickinNgrinnin

Oct-20-2004, 8:41am

Hey FD-

The Flatiron thread lives on! One of the longest running too http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Geeze that 2MC went for peanuts! Ugly pickguard and some negative feedback may have been a factor. Aside from the PG, it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Nice flame on the back. Heck of a buy. I suppose one could remove the PG. There may be an unsightly tan line left behind depending how long it has been on there.

Nathan Sanders

Oct-20-2004, 10:09am

Yep I was watching the 2MC also. I almost bid on it, but I really did not like the pickguard. It probably could be taken off. I am surprised it went for such a low amount.

fatt-dad

Oct-20-2004, 10:16am

Yeah, I was concerned about the seller, but at least I received a call from his cohort today. I was the successful (only) bidder on the other mandolin that he sold - for $100.00, I am the proud owner of a 1979 Washburn A-model, f-hole mandolin. Contacted Washburn and they informed me, based on the serial number that it is spruce and maple (solid). I may just need a new beater as my former beater is under the scalple right now, by my own hand.

I really was curious about the 2mc that just sold, as the price was right - I just couldn't get the guy to write me back (I had asked whether it came with the case).

Long live the pancake!

f-d

Moose

Oct-20-2004, 11:10am

Hey fatt-dad... "...but I may not have much more to add.." - I think you "contributed" a quite informative post!(seriously) - Let me add that the "pancake" 1N I bought at a flea market for $150.00 impressed me so much I ordered - and bought in 1995 - a new Flatiron F5 Artist Model @ $3100.00!! - Yes! - the older "pancakes"(i.e. all solid wood) WERE great!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

fatt-dad

Oct-20-2004, 1:01pm

Moose,

Who signed your F5 and how great is it? I have a Flatiron a5-1 that just sings (o.k. I should say it is the best ban%o killer that was ever made and everybody else should just give up). I have only noodled on an F-5 Flatiron once and maybe I was too timid to play it full volume, but I suspect that they are just great (not as good as mine though).

(Have you ever tried the FlatTop 74s on your pancake?)

f-d

Moose

Oct-20-2004, 2:12pm

Well, herein lies a tale!! - I traded the "pancake" as part of the deal for the F5(incidently, my luthier friend "suggested" I always use Light-guage on the "pancake"..as others have mentioned) - Rest of story...: I unpacked/tuned-up the Flatiron - it had arrived at the music store from Montana ; I tuned it up... ; I "chopped"it(i.e. played several "full/closed" chords..! ; BLAH!!??##... ; I paid for it(3K!!..; the dealer allowed me $100.00 for the "pancake') - I said to myself "self, this machine needs to be played!! -and HARD!..it'll open-up.. Soas to finish this post...- I kept the mando.., played lots of gigs, jams, etc.. - I NEVER liked it!! - it NEVER "opened-up" .. at least not to my satisfaction(and ears). Kept it approx 5 years - the last year under my bed! - Couldn't stand the sound. I called Montana - talked with them..; they asked what's wrong..., send it back and we'll "fix it" - I told them there was nothing "wrong" asthetically and/or workmanship-wise. I finally sold the Flatiron for $1500.00. Wha' was wrong..!?? - I dun'no.. - I missed playing a/any mando ; went to a Guitar Show in Philadelphia(Pa.) - found a HORNER "A" that just blew everything away(people/passerby were stopping to liste- not for my "dexterity/pickin' but the sound of that mando. I bought it for $1400 (Charles Johnson @ Mandolin Hdqrs.) - Love it! - Lost my a**ss ($$$$) on the Flatiron.. but, whatever. This is NOT to flame Flatiron. "Your mileage may vary"... Sorry to ramble. Regards and best wishes in your music. If I can answer or help - from 30+ years of pickin'... just ask. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

fatt-dad

Oct-20-2004, 2:21pm

Ah, Charles Johnson - local boy. I also live in Richmond, Virginia and am trying to corner the $100 to $200 mandolin market, but Charles, now he has the stuff!

What Moose needs is another pancake. I say the board feeds him a tip (unless you want to buy my Kalamazoo).

That is quite a tale. As I said, I have the greatest Flatiron, but it is an 84 (pre-gibson). So, maybe your story can be blamed to Gibson, who hasn't been bashed for about a week or so - ha.

f-d

Moose

Oct-20-2004, 2:42pm

In retrospect - and "knowing-what-I-know-now" , your hypothesis is quite plausible(AHEM!!! - COUGH!##) - hee... hee.. - But we ain't gonna' bash Gibson today...are we!??#. I really enjoy -and respect - Charlie and Joe's interest and contributions on this CAFE. What the he****l, it was only....MONEY. Have a good'n. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

fatt-dad

Oct-20-2004, 6:56pm

And in spite of my great pancake, I want a distressed master model (no joke). It is, however, a matter of priorities and money. But one of these days (kids out of college, house paid for, working car, humidor filled to the brim). . . . .

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Oct-21-2004, 8:54am

Interesting story on the Flatiron Moose. As you may have seen in previous posts, I still have a Flatiron 1CH up for sale, but lately I have really been loving the sound of it. I used it at an outdoor gig recently and the thing really put out the sound. I bought it a few months ago and still have not changed the strings. So I really do not know how old the strings are, but the mando really puts out a nice loud sweet sound. It has a decent chop too for a flat top. I also still have my 1N which I bought new in 1993, but it is not for sale.

Moose

Oct-21-2004, 9:09am

Hey f5dude.. Don't let that 1N "pancake" go!!! - I would gladly buy back the one I gave "in-trade' - at twice the price the dealer allowed me..($100.00)!### - Thanks for the post. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

PaulD

Oct-21-2004, 11:15am

I'm fairly new to this forum, but I guess I need to take a closer look at my Flatiron pancake and join in. It's currently sitting in the corner waiting for me to finish filing the frets... it wasn't getting played since I bought my '49 Gibson A, but I do miss that punchy sound that it has! The frets hadn't been touched since it was new and they were really, really grooved at the low end. I've got them leveled, and I bought an LMI fret file last spring to finish the job but I haven't gotten back to it.

It was my first mandolin after starting to learn on a borrowed Kay. In 1981 I was going to buy a $190 Ibanez A model from a local shop, Acoustic Music, but they showed me what (as I recall) was their first Flatiron for $300. I tried it out and it blew me away, and as I knew I was going to be laid off for the summer I figured I'd better do the logical thing and spend the extra money on the Flatiron (less work = more time to play)!

I'll have to go check the labels... as I recall mine says 1SH for the model, but maybe that's a precursor to the S/N. I also don't recall the sticker with recommended string guages, but I'll have to check on that. I'm pretty sure it was made in '81, maple B&S with light birdseye, spruce top, unadorned. Early on I put better chrome tuners on it, but I have the originals and will probably swap them back and use the chromies on the first instrument I build. As others have stated about their Flatirons, I can't imagine ever parting with it... I could never sell it for what it's worth to me.

PaulD

Oct-21-2004, 11:18am

Oh, one more thing... mine was built by Backporch Productions in Bozeman, MT. I don't know when they dropped that designation... anybody???

JiminRussia

Oct-21-2004, 11:23am

Would this be a good time to list my pre-Gibson 1N? I have a bad case of MASfor an oval hole F style. Do you think that I could get enough for a decent down payment on say a Eastman MD614? They go for about $1350 delivered when you can find one.

fatt-dad

Oct-21-2004, 1:34pm

Nathan Sanders

Oct-21-2004, 2:06pm

I've seen the Back Porch sticker before, I think in a pre-Gibson Flatiron. It may even say it in one of mine. I'll check.

Jim, I would probably be interested in buying your Flatiron, but I could not pay you what you want for it. I'd say keep it. They are a great instrument to have on hand.

PaulD

Oct-21-2004, 2:21pm

Well I'm fasinated by PaulD's Backporch pancake. Regarding the sticker on the string gauges, check up-inside the sound hole where the body meets the neck. That is where my sticker is (I didn't know it was there until this post began). Is there any reason to believe that Flatiron had the name "Backporch Mandolin" prior to forming as Flatiron? Somebody. . .

To clarify, it still says Flatiron on the head, but the label inside says it was made by "Backporch Productions". I'll drag it out and get pics of the label if people are interested... if nothing else it would stretch this thread out! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif I would consider posting a pic of the whole instrument, but the finish looks like $#!@ because I never had a decent case and I used to take the thing everywhere.

In the mid-80s someone at a jam told me he had been to that "factory" and it was literally somebody's back porch (Weber's?). At least that's what I recall. I never drove to Bozeman to see for myself.

I swear, this thread is going to have me ignoring the house remodeling and the desk I'm building for my SO and filing frets. I guess that shouldn't really take too long now that I've got a fret file. I was using needle files and was having a hard time shaping the fret without scratching up the fingerboard, even with the rosewood masked off.

I'm also considering refinishing it; I talked to Weber about it's construction a couple years back and he said it would be glued with Titebond (I had some separation to repair) and finished with "Fullerplast" (?). I'm assuming that's a lacquer... maybe I'll ask on the builder's forum. Whatever I do, I'm trying to not screw it up!

Ipnter

Oct-21-2004, 3:56pm

Jim-
I think you should sell it. Cheaply. To me.
I hear they're not very good mandolins anyway. ;)

In the time between when I last posted on this thread and now I ended up buying a mid-mo (m4), it's a great mandolin and I'm having a lot of fun learning on it, but I still kinda wish I'd have held out for one of these to show up at a price I could afford.

pickinNgrinnin

Oct-21-2004, 8:30pm

[QUOTE]Is there any reason to believe that Flatiron had the name "Backporch Mandolin" prior to forming as Flatiron? Somebody. . .

I'm thinking that is the way it went. Backporch Mandolin - Bozeman. Not sure when Steve Carlson's history began. Flatiron Mandolin & Banjo (mid 80's) Bozeman. Bruce Weber joined the operation in 87. Then down the road a bit to Belgrade. Not sure when they dropped the Banjo handle.

Hey Paula Jean! are you reading this thread???

JiminRussia

Oct-21-2004, 9:25pm

MIne is an '83 and it doesn't have the "Back Porch Productions" sticker on it but it does have the string guage sticker on it. I remember seeing one that was from well before mine that had that sticker. aybe someone that has the ear of Bruce Webber could wrire and ask him. I've never met him, but I hear that he's a nice fellow and would probably answer a question like that.

fatt-dad

Oct-22-2004, 5:36am

Mine is an 83 also. I looked (played) at it last night and there is no reference to "Backporch" anything. Just a side note, I probably hadn't played it in 2 or 3 months, but it stayed in tune. This is amazing to me as there has been such a change in environment over the last few months (i.e., summer to autumn, A/C to heating, etc.). Just a very stable pancake (as they all are I guess).

f-d

PaulD

Oct-22-2004, 12:42pm

I took a pic of the label, but my camera is not "plug-and-play"ing well with my work computer so I can't post it now. It reads:

FLATIRON MANDOLIN
Model No. 1SH
Serial No. 8105960
Handmade in Bozeman MT by Backporch Productions

There is no string gauge sticker in it, and since I am the original owner I would have noticed if one fell out. I think I will make a note of the guages posted early in this thread. I wonder if people collapsed the tops on these early models by using heavy strings, or if the string gauges were a recommendation for the best tone.

fatt-dad

Oct-22-2004, 12:52pm

Maybe I posted this above - I can't recall, but the GHS A-250s have the exact string gauges recommended for the pancake series flatirons. They are a phosphore bronze string and work real well.

JustStrings carries them and they seem to be a good Cafe Sponsor. I just did some business with them and the price and delivery were first rate.

fatt-dad

pickinNgrinnin

Oct-22-2004, 8:31pm

The label lists the following string guages:

1st - .010
2nd - .013
3rd - .024
4th - .036

Bruce Weber told me to use light gauge strings. No need to question that. I suspect the light gauge is recommended given the flat top and bracing configuration.

My 1N has sweet tone and plenty of volume with light gauge.

racuda

Oct-26-2004, 5:43am

Tomastik-Infeld Mittles also work very well. I have a 1-N and have had the TI's on it for six months. They sound great and feel really great.

1st #- #010#

2nd - #.015

3rd #- .021
#
4th - #.033#

Nathan Sanders

Oct-26-2004, 7:53am

I usually use D'Addario J-62 strings on my 1N.

mikeyjc

Oct-27-2004, 9:01pm

Hey Forum!

I was the winner of the 2MC. #It arrived yesterday, and has finish cracks on the bass half of the top, all around the sides, on the back, and up both sides of the neck. #AARRGGHH! #Not quite the 'excellent condition; no blemishes or flaws' disclosed in the listing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Have sent the seller and his minion two e-mails - one last PM, one late this afternoon - but alas, have not heard back from either as of yet http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #Also just noticed someone else posted negative feedback for him this past Monday ...

HOWEVER ... other than needing a setup, it seems to sound and play fine.

Since I'm not a luthier, I plan to take it to the fine folks at Elderly to determine if it has structural problems, and have advised the seller accordingly ...

No, it didn't have a case. #The pickguard is definitely funky - will find out Saturday if it's covering up a bullet hole or something #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Way OT (apologies in advance) - my dad died in 1987. #He was born and raised in Quincy, Mass. #I can't help but think he's smiling - somewhere - now that the Sox have finally won the Series. #In 1986, we watched Game 7 together over the phone - he, in Seattle, me, in Anchorage - while he was losing his battle with lung cancer.

Thanks to all - the Cafe is an INCREDIBLE community <salute>.

- Mike in MI

fatt-dad

Oct-28-2004, 8:52am

Mikeyjc - you can always scrape the finish off the neck and get rid of the cracks that way. My 1N arrived with a naked neck along with a bad finish repair job. While I received the case, it is the tone and fun of playing it that keeps it in my not for sale list.

f-d

racuda

Oct-29-2004, 12:34pm

The label in my 1-N looks like someone has erased the serial number and crudely written a name with a black Sharpie. While I am not in favor of buying stolen goods, this was an eBay item and I didn't know about the defaced label until I received it.

Does anyone know if the serial number is witten in pencil on the wood under the label, like the old Gibsons?

pickinNgrinnin

Oct-29-2004, 4:01pm

Don't know about that. You may want to contact Paula Jean at Weber as she will likely know. It may not be a stolen Mando - maybe some fool got ahold of it.

fatt-dad

Oct-29-2004, 7:16pm

my serial number is typed on the label.

f-d

fatt-dad

Nov-03-2004, 6:47pm

(not to unneccarily streach out this thread, but here goes. . . .)

What would be a good bridge replacement for my 1N? Also, not having nut files, what would be the best choice for getting a replacement nut? Has anybody used a non-wood bridge on their pancake?

I feel like prior setups on my 1N have come at a compromize to the nut and bridge slots. I am in the midst of getting all my keeper mandolins right - so this one will need to go somewhere for some fret replacements, etc. Figuring it will get shipped, I may also send along a new bridge and maybe a nut blank (unless the luthier has what I need).

f-d

JiminRussia

Nov-03-2004, 7:22pm

I'm a little gunshy about putting anything really fancy on my mandoilins after spending a bunch for a fossilized brigde saddle and wedges for my Brekke brigge on my F-5. It made it sound too bright and kind of tinny and thin. I'd try to keep the Flatiron pretty much as close to original as possible, if I were you. I just love the sound of my 1N now that it's all original again after I had the original bridge put back on it. It came with both the original in the case and a replacement that was just too high for it. I am realy glad that the original was there! It's already very bright and LOUD, as are all that I have ever tried, and I wouldn't want to make the same mistake with it as I did my Newson F-5.

Dan Adams

Nov-03-2004, 7:27pm

My 83 2M has the 'Made in Bozeman, Montana by Backporch Productions' label. It is an early 83, made in January. Killer tone, and huge volume! It would be nice to get the final clrifications about when and where they were produced in the early stages of the company.

All that Glitters is not Scrolled! Dan

fatt-dad

Nov-03-2004, 7:51pm

Yeah, I'm glad that my bridge and nut are original, but they have been gacked up none-the-less. I have a hard time with string slots larger than the string (i.e., at the bridge) and I also have a hard time with the strings sitting too far into the nut. These are the faults with my setup. (Note to anybody that wants some advice - don't deepen the slots to improve action.)

Further comment?

f-d

Jim M.

Nov-04-2004, 8:20am

How about one of the Red Henry maple bridges?

fatt-dad

Nov-04-2004, 10:06am

Jim M. Any information on where to purchase? I just also posted at the builders forum to see if there is a wood putty product that would enable me to infill the slots well enough to have them reslotted. Comments?

f-d

Jim M.

Nov-04-2004, 10:17am

Red is now selling them at: http://www.murphymethod.com/maplebridge.html

There is also a lot of information at his site about his experiments with them. Someone else was selling them too, but I can't find that link right now. On filling the nut, I've always heard that super glue does the job, either by itself or mixed with sawdust.

PaulD

Nov-04-2004, 2:03pm

I've filled the nut on my fiddle with Superglue and small ebony splinters, then refiled the groove. The G and D strings used to buzz a little on some notes, but I was able to cure it this way.

On another note: I posted on the Build/Repair topic that I finished filing the frets on my Flatiron. Thanks to this thread, I was able to dig through my string stash and find a set of the appropriate gauge strings that I must have bought for the Flatiron years ago. It's SO SWEET to be able to play that instrument again... I've been trading back and forth between that and the Gibson "A" having fun with the different tone and texture. The Flatiron is really bright and punchy compared to the Gibson, which seems to be more refined, and it has more bass response than I remember. The Gibson seems to be more balanced across its range.

I was thinking about lowering the action on the Flatiron, but I think I'm okay on the nut end and need to lower the bridge. In my Builders/Repair topic post, I expressed concern about changing the volume and punch by lowering the bridge, but someone said he did the same thing and it sounds fine. I will probably make a new bridge so I can go back to the original if I don't like it.

I also mentioned previously in this thread that the finish has chips and is peeling in some places. I had e-mailed SoundToEarth a year or so ago and was told the Flatiron was originally finished with Fullerplast, but I wasn't able to find any reference to that finish at the time. A few days ago I was able to find the manufacturer on the Web, so now I know that it's a catalyzed varnish.

I e-mailed the mfg'r for recommendations on touching it up with brush-on varnish. The feedback sounded more like a sales pitch for Fullerplast, but I was told that if the finish was peeling and chipping it was probably not Fullerplast. He said that touching up Fullerplast with a lesser varnish would probably not work because of Fullerplast's superior flexibility, and that I should strip the mandolin and respray it with Fullerplast. I'm sure their product is good, but I doubt it's much different than other quality varnishes/lacquers that I could use.

I'm hesitant to strip it because I don't want to lose the "The Flatiron" decal/silk screen (whatever it is) logo on the headstock. I'm leaning toward scraping the loose finish, sanding and feathering the areas to be touched up, and using a good quality brush-on varnish to fix the areas where the finish is gone. Does that seem like a reasonable approach? I'm open to suggestions.

Moose

Nov-04-2004, 2:10pm

This is great; all these CAFE "pages" about "the pancake"!!! - But, yes, that mandolin IS worthy of the attention!! - AS I mentioned earlier, I had(!?###) one - AND wish I still had it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif carry on.

Nathan Sanders

Nov-04-2004, 5:15pm

Wow! I'm glad to see this thread is still alive. Great information. Keep it up!

mikeyjc

Nov-20-2004, 1:57pm

Follow-up to my previous post:

2MC bought on eBay got back from Elderly today; had them remove the cheesy pickguard, do some fret work, and set it up. They truly do miracles there http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Best news of all is that there was no structural damage. Seller also stepped up and sent me a check to cover undisclosed finish cracks.

What a sweet sweet mando I now have! I may eventually upgrade, but I'll never part with this one!

Again, thanks to all of you who post here - wonderful community, incredible info shared.

A VERY happy Flatiron owner -

mikeyjc

JiminRussia

Nov-21-2004, 7:04pm

Hey Fatt-dad, I was just re-readig some of the posts on this thread and I wouldn't worry too much about not having the right files for the nut. Just use an old string that is of the right diameter. The wound strings will cutr the right size slot in it for you pretty quickly. The only one that you will have to figure out is the easy one, the "E" string I use a serrated knife to start the slot on the E string and then polish it out with an old "E" string. I only learned this little tip a short while ago but it sure did work well when I tried it out on a buzzing string.

fatt-dad

Nov-21-2004, 7:26pm

Jiminrussia,

Love the tip. I will surely use it!

Pertaining to 1N style mandolins, there are two flatiron pankcakes in ebay right now. One is a "real" one with a reserve of $500.00 (for some reason its in the listing) the other (with a "buy it now" of $695.00) is the laminated Nashville, fake truss rod, Authentic Gibson "Flatiron". Hard to believe that there is a hope to get $695 for this poor substitute.

f-d

pickinNgrinnin

Nov-21-2004, 8:15pm

I saw the fake one on the bay last night. Buyer beware on this cheesy imitation! I nearly hoarked when I saw the asking price. If I remember correctly, the laminated toy is on it's 3rd ebay round.

JiminRussia

Nov-21-2004, 9:23pm

I know what you mean about the "fake". The reserve price on the "real" Flatiron is probably prety fair, but if you are looking for a bargain, this isn't it. With the reserve that is on it, I expect this to go for a fair price, but not at any bargain basement price. Nothing wrong with that, but like most folks I'm always trying to find that Loar at a Pac Rim Import price.

fatt-dad

Nov-22-2004, 5:21am

Personally, I'll be amazed if the 1N goes for $500.00 (although having the original case does help).

f-d

Onesound

Nov-22-2004, 9:53am

I had a 2M that I wish I had never sold! It was a great little box - very bright and loud. My first wife hated it... so I divorced her!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Brian

fatt-dad

Nov-22-2004, 8:26pm

PaulD gets the credit for this find - Frets.com shows how to install/fit a new bridge and uses a 1N as the subject. HERE'S (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/FitBridgeFeet/fitfeet.html) the link.

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Nov-23-2004, 8:47pm

Great looking case Pick. Good job on the modification. Your case does look deeper than my case. I bought a hard shell case for my 1N from Elderly Instruments and it fits perfectly without modification. They even advertised it as fitting the army-navy style. Now, before anyone goes off rushing to Elderly to buy, I bought my case about 10 years ago. I just checked their web site and could not find it. So I do not know if the case is still made or what. I cannot find a brand name on my case, but I believe it to be a Harptone. Anyway, just wanted to add my two cents, and also keep this thread alive.

pickinNgrinnin

Nov-23-2004, 10:44pm

I had talked with the folks at TKL about a case for this Flatiron. After the person on the phone checked numerous model numbers, the case did not exist or at least that's what I was told. I thought they could make one for me but if so, I was sure it would cost a lot. These Flatirons have not been made for a long time so companies like TKL, GWW, Harptone, may not make them anymore. This particular GWW that I have was advertised as not fitting a standard A style Mandolin. The case provides a nice snug fit for the pancake.

How about a shot of that case F5dude?

fatt-dad

Nov-26-2004, 4:06pm

(as an aside, TKL purchased the Harptone line and moved, or is moving, the molds to their Oilville, Virginia facility. Whether they could do research at some point in the future to remake the case may be possible. PickinNgrinnin, did you ask them about this?)

f-d

PaulD

Nov-26-2004, 5:36pm

I kinda dropped out of this thread for awhile, but I just noticed it was still alive. I would like to find a "correct" case for my 1SH. I've got it in an A case that is way too big, mostly to provide some protection from rapid humidity/temperature changes. I was in Acoustic Music last weekend and they were suggesting I bring it in to see how the Mid Missouri cases fit... they are pretty small and flat, although not as much as the Flatiron.

Paul Doubek

Nathan Sanders

Nov-26-2004, 6:28pm

Here is a picture of my 1CH in its case. The case is the same thing as the case for my 1N.

Walter

Nov-27-2004, 8:30am

Does anyone know anything about the 3MB that was in the classifieds? Looks like it was posted and sold soon after. It's a beauty. Anyone know the selling price?

johnsmusic

Nov-27-2004, 8:47am

While y'all are on the subject, I wanted to show off my latest. I have to thank Charles Johnson for this. I put an ad in the "wanted" section and never thoght that I would find one, but Charles contacted me and just recently had gotten this in, hadn't even listed it on his site yet. #It is a'84 3M Flatiron zouk, curly maple back and sides and it is a sweetheart. Just curious, there is no logo on the headstock although the label and everything is intact inside. Is that common? There is really no sign that there ever was one on the headstock. Thanks, John

johnsmusic

Nov-27-2004, 8:50am

Sorry, here is a photo

johnsmusic

Nov-27-2004, 8:51am

and one more

pickinNgrinnin

Nov-27-2004, 8:57am

I saw the 3MB on the classifieds last night and I think the seller was asking $500.00 He must have removed the price when the ad was re-posted as sold. $500.00 for a nice 3MB is a great buy. I bet he could have sold it for more without much trouble.

FD- I did not ask the folks at TKL if they planned to remake the Flatiron cases - probably should have!

I wonder if the Mid-Missouri cases will fit. The body on the Mid MO has a different shape. Let us know how that works out Paul.

pickinNgrinnin

Nov-27-2004, 9:17am

That's the first Flatiron I've seen without the Logo on the headstock. An early one perhaps? Could be older than fatt-dad's? They may have decided to add the logo later on in 84? F.D.'s is a May 84 1N. Also it looks like the shape of the headstock is a bit different. There appears to be a more pronounced point at the top of the headstock than on other Flatiron's. Go back through this thread and compare some pics. Nice looking instrument.

What is the serial number?

johnsmusic

Nov-27-2004, 11:23am

It is 8410314, plays like a dream with good volume...if I can only get my hands to spread and cover those frets now....John

PaulD

Nov-27-2004, 11:53am

As I've posted earlier, my Flatiron 1SH is an '81 and has the logo on the headstock. I wonder if it's been stripped and refinished???

pd

fatt-dad

Nov-27-2004, 12:15pm

Note to the thread - there is another 3mc in the 'cafe classifieds.

f-d

johnsmusic

Nov-27-2004, 1:20pm

"As I've posted earlier, my Flatiron 1SH is an '81 and has the logo on the headstock. I wonder if it's been stripped and refinished???"

Sure doesn't look like it. Definitely not the instrument, MAYBE the headstock???

pickinNgrinnin

Nov-27-2004, 3:53pm

Do you have a close up shot of the headstock?

Don

Nov-27-2004, 8:26pm

The selling price on the 3MB that sold in the classifieds was $500.I bought it.I had a 2MC and let it go a couple years or so ago,and have been missing it.It was a great little mandolin.The sound that came out of that little box was amazing.Shortly after getting the money order mailed for my new baby,I got up on the classifieds and saw the ad for the other 3MB.Really nice looking mando and for a good price too.Surprised it hasn't been snatched up already.

Don

Nov-30-2004, 12:58pm

For all you folks who have these little Pancake style mandos,I'd be interested in hearing what strings and gauges you are using.

fatt-dad

Nov-30-2004, 1:41pm

Ah Don, You have to look at the earler pages of this thread. The recommended string gauges should be posted on a label inside the soundbox. Look up toward the neck joint and see if there isn't a label that shows the recommended string gauges. I found that the GHS ??-250s work. I can't remember the letter prefex, like it may be P-250 or something like that. Whatever, they are an exact fit with the recommended gauge for the pancake mandolin.

Good luck.

fatt-dad

Nathan Sanders

Nov-30-2004, 2:37pm

Mostly I have used the D'Addario J-62 strings on my Flatiron.

fatt-dad

Nov-30-2004, 7:21pm

Mostly I have used the D'Addario J-62 strings on my Flatiron.
Checked the string gauges for the J-62s and they run up to 0.034, which is just under the 0.036 gauge that is referenced in the label. The GHS A-250s are a better match as they go from the 0.010 to the 0.036 as specified, but the a-string may be somewhat off on the a-250s.

f-d

PaulD

Dec-01-2004, 8:33am

As posted earlier... my Flatiron doesn't have the string gauge sticker... must have been a later innovation. I have Martin strings on it right now, but I just bought a new set and I can't recall the brand. I know the E was .010, and I think the G was .036, so maybe they are the GHS set. Thanks for the string gauge info to those of you who posted it. I'm glad to have it set up right.

Paul Doubek

PaulD

Dec-02-2004, 8:33am

The replacement strings I bought are J-62's... .034 G string. The Martin strings that I put on it are also .034 on the G string, although when I checked it with a micrometer it measured .033. The bass response seems good but I'll try the GHS strings next time for comparison. I'm probably also going to restring that mandolin with octave strings on the G and D just to play with it.

pd

Don

Dec-02-2004, 8:04pm

Was just on the classifieds and checked that other 3MB
for sale.It's still there,but no longer has the asking price listed with the ad.Do you suppose it's been sold?

pickinNgrinnin

Feb-09-2005, 10:13pm

Two of these currently on the Bay. This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3780598033&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) one is a pre-Gibson and it is getting quite a bit of action. Been watching Papa Gordo?

fatt-dad

Feb-10-2005, 7:28am

WOW - that price is up there. I believe that that thing will be in the $700 to $800.00 range by the time it's all over. Looks real fine though.

Funny that this thread resurfaced today. I'm preparing to bring mine out of the closet, change the strings and bring it to the next old-time jam. I heard it calling, "Play me, play me. . ."

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Feb-10-2005, 8:15am

Wow, I'm glad to seet the return of this thread. Hey fatt-dad, I just got my 1N out the other day and broke a string tuning it up. So, yeah, I need to change them. It's been a while. I too saw the price on that mandola currently on ebay. Wow! I placed a bid early on, but I think I will let this one go.

I just sold my 1CH, which I had previously mentioned in this thread. And I got a really good price. The new owner had a 1CH that he accidentally broke the peg head on, so getting another one was a real treat for him. And, when he received the one I sold him, he checked the serial numbers between it and his broken one, and they were consecutive. What's the probability of that?

fatt-dad

Feb-10-2005, 8:31am

fatt-dad continues. . . .

I am considering a partial refret on mine. But the real question is whether to radius the board. What would the purists think about that?

f-d

BlueMt.

Feb-10-2005, 11:25am

I've had this 2K mandola since 1982. I also had a 1N and a Flatiron octave, but I let those get away.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/p998680c1d57263dcef349bca28b0d648/f52cc99c.jpg

Nathan Sanders

Feb-10-2005, 2:51pm

Hey, if anyone knows of a Flatiron Bouzouki for sale, I would be interested.

pickinNgrinnin

Feb-10-2005, 10:22pm

It's the thread that will not fade http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Consecutive numbers on a 1CH? What the? The probability of that happening - incomprehensible.

Nice Koa 2K - too bad about the 1N!

El Papa Gordo...we all know you took to the radiused boards but to desecrate a 1N? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

fatt-dad

Feb-13-2005, 9:42pm

El Papa Gordo...we all know you took to the radiused boards but to desecrate a 1N? #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Yeah, I know better. I do need to send it out and get the frets worked on. The first three are really slotted and a dressing doesn't look like it will work. I also need to get the bridged lowered and have learned my lesson - i.e., not to do it myself. I am excited to get the work done and it will give me something to add to this thread in the months ahead. Maybe even a photo will make this thread too!

f-d

p.s., it's don Papa Gordo - ha.

PaulD

Feb-14-2005, 3:01pm

It's the thread that will not fade

It does seem to go on... doesn't it.

don Papa, My Flatiron frets were seriously grooved. I leveled and crowned them and they cleaned up nicely, but I think they were rather tall when the instrument was new (1981). One of the next things I want to do with mine is lower the action at the bridge. The nut seems fine. I haven't learned my lesson yet... hopefully the Flatiron will survive! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I restrung the G and D strings with .012 unwound strings for the second string on each course and tuned those an octave high. It's an interesting sound. I still need to shim the slots in the nut for the two unwound strings because they sit a little low, but I figured I would just drop a sliver of wood in there rather than gluing something in so it will be easy to go back if I want to.

Paul Doubek http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

fatt-dad

Feb-14-2005, 5:14pm

I haven't learned my lesson yet...
My problem when working on a fixed bridge is how to shave the wood from the underside and keep it square. I guess it must require a jig or someother mechanical method to keep the bridge upendicular with respect to the sandpaper/scraping tool/belt sander, etc. In my prior impatience, I would just try to hold it in my hand and sand away. But, the end product was always messed up.

Am I making sense?

f-d

fatt-dad

Feb-14-2005, 5:16pm

racuda

Feb-14-2005, 8:00pm

My problem when working on a fixed bridge is how to shave the wood from the underside and keep it square. #I guess it must require a jig or someother mechanical method to keep the bridge upendicular with respect to the sandpaper/scraping tool/belt sander, etc. #In my prior impatience, I would just try to hold it in my hand and sand away. #But, the end product was always messed up.

Am I making sense?

f-d
Frank Ford's method has worked very well for me.

Fitting Bridge "Feet" (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/FitBridgeFeet/fitfeet.html)

fatt-dad

Feb-14-2005, 8:19pm

Racuda,

That is a great way to fit the bridge, but what if you have to remove maybe a sixteenth of an inch to get the action to where you want it? I feel that it would be a lot of scuffing and scraping using this method. Maybe, I'm just impatient?

Thanks for the link - I'll see about my confidence. . . .

f-d

PaulD

Feb-15-2005, 12:39pm

Frank's method is what I used... it made sense to me that if you slide it side-to-side it would be easier to maintain perpendicular attitude relative to the top. If I were removing 1/16" I would scribe a line all the way around at 1/16" and then remove wood almost to the line (leave the line and maybe a little more).

Removal could be done with a sanding drum, Dremel, router table, etc... but I would personally prefer to use a block plane, sharp chisel, knife, or spokeshave with the bridge clamped in a vise. Then finish up with the sandpaper on the instrument top, as per FF.

pd

racuda

Feb-15-2005, 5:50pm

f-d, I did have to take off about 1/16" from my 1-N bridge. By scraping with a pocket knife and then using sandpaper to identify the high spots, I was able to fit it perfectly - better that the factory job. It only took about an hour.

The bridge foot is not really flat, but rather slightly curved to conform with the top, so I would not not use a sanding block or any method that would flatten the bridge.

A sixteenth of an inch is really not that much to remove from ¼" x 4" piece of wood. Just take your time and do it right and you will be rewarded with a mandolin that plays like butter and sounds even better than you expected as a result of perfect intimate bridge to top contact.

hotwire

Feb-15-2005, 8:03pm

Hi all- iv'e been following this thread with some interest.A local shop has a flatiron 2MC w/case for sale [it was a trade in]. It looks like it's in great shape.The chipboard case has no wear at all. This could be a instrument that sat in a closet for years. the serial # starts with 84 (1984 ?) Now the big question ... what would be a deal to good to turn down? # #$$$$ any comments?

pickinNgrinnin

Feb-15-2005, 10:00pm

Hotwire-

The one I referred to on this page, just sold on the bay for $760.00 It was the same year (although with a different finish) as the one you are looking at. What are they asking for the 2MC?

fatt-dad

Feb-16-2005, 11:07am

If the action is good, the frets are good and the neck is straight, anything under $500.00 would be too good not to buy. That said, pNg is correct, there is a buyer out there that will pay several hundred more. I doubt that you'll sell it though - ha.

f-d

hotwire

Feb-16-2005, 3:28pm

pNg- The asking price is $450, they said they would take $400. Now the task of convincing my wife it will be a good "investment" (long term that is).

fatt-dad

Feb-16-2005, 4:17pm

Let me know if the wife says no. My wife won't know if I add another to the stow

atetone

Feb-16-2005, 11:28pm

Hotwire, if it's in decent shape that is a good price especially if the case is the original.

pickinNgrinnin

Feb-17-2005, 10:25am

$400.00 for a 2MC???What the?? If it's in the shape you describe, that's a great deal! OK...where is this for sale? Let me know ASAP http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

fatt-dad

Feb-17-2005, 10:50am

Let's not fight. I want it more than pNg.

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Feb-18-2005, 9:17am

I'll take it.:D

fatt-dad

Feb-18-2005, 10:58am

Dateline 18 February 2005 - Update on Fatt-Dad's 1N.

I just shipped it off for new frets and a setup. I just don't think I want to practice on adjusting the action of a fixed bridge. At least fitting an adjustible bridge you have the option of using the thumb screws if you get too low.

Hotwire - you have to get that mandolin. That way we'll be able to continue this thread. I just showed mine to a colleague and she seemed impressed with the sound. It's really quite a thrill to play one of these.

That said, I'll be without for a week or so. (Note to self, buy mandolins that don't need to be refretted.)

f-d

fatt-dad

Feb-18-2005, 9:08pm

more from fatt-dad.

Ebay has a pre-Gibson 1N with a reserve of $400 right now. Non original case, but seemingly in great condition. The bids are getting close to $300.00 and no it's not mine. FYI.

f-d

fatt-dad

Feb-24-2005, 2:25pm

Hotwire, Did you buy it? Upon receipt, post photos. If you aren't getting it, I'll take a PM with the contact information. I really hope you found a way to pick it up though.

f-d

hotwire

Feb-27-2005, 6:12am

fatt-dad , At this point I'm trying to exibit self-controll.... No , have not made the deal..yet. I have been waching a 84' 2MC on e-bay w/ 14 hrs. left. The last bid was around $430. hotwire

fatt-dad

Mar-03-2005, 11:57am

Update - March 3, 2005. Yesterday I got my 1N back from a refret - love it! As it turned out I needed a new nut and the replacement is made of bone. Now I thought as a purist that I would want a wooden nut, but it's no matter. The mandolin continues to be fun to hold and play. I am further impressed with the tone and sustain. Bottom line is I'm keeping it. Maybe I'll post a photo to add yet something else to discuss on this thread.

f-d

fatt-dad

Mar-03-2005, 5:25pm

The moment you all've been waiting for. . . . . .

Here is a photo of my 1N in it's five latch case. Note sub-par cosmetic "repair" at the pickwear - wish folks would just leave well enough alone. That said, this mandolin has seen some wear. I bought it out of Canada where it was apparently used by a player in a Klezmer band. New fret job and bone nut are great along with the brand new set of GHS A250s!

fatt-dad

pickinNgrinnin

Mar-03-2005, 8:43pm

Nice job there El Papa Gordo! Good looking 1N and a cool case to boot. Notice any tone/volume differences with the bone nut?? I have a Fossil Walrus Ivory nut blank I could use for my 1N. It's just laying around not being used.

fatt-dad

Mar-03-2005, 9:16pm

pNg,

No real jump-out-and-grab-you difference from the nut. It's just so nice to have new frets and the proper action that I'm more drawn to the new-found playability. If there is a nut factor, it's second to the overall playability.

fatt-dad

Nathan Sanders

Mar-04-2005, 11:53am

Nice looking 1N fatt d! I'm waiting to get my F-5 back from a local shop where it is getting a partial refret. I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell. And this one has a different tailpiece. Instead of the fan-like tailpiece usually seen, it has a more traditional one like an F-5. The mando is a '96 model. Any idea of why the different tailpiece? Factory? Later customization?

pickinNgrinnin

Mar-04-2005, 11:59am

I have a 96 1N and it has the fan style tailpiece. The one you mention must have been an add on.

fatt-dad

Mar-04-2005, 12:36pm

I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell.
I have two things to say about that: 1) yeah sure. . . . 2) what's up with that?

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Mar-04-2005, 2:33pm

I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell.
I have two things to say about that: 1) yeah sure. . . . 2) what's up with that?

f-d
What's up with it fatt-dad is that I'm buying a Flatiron 2MC mandolin from a friend and I may put if up for sale soon. When I get it, maybe I will post a picture of it. Any other questions?

PaulD

Mar-04-2005, 3:57pm

Nice looking pancake, f-d... I wish mine looked that good. Mine sure plays nicely, though, since I leveled and reshaped the frets. Still need to lower the action at the bridge, as we've discussed before. I wish I had a decent fitting hard case for mine too... I've got one for an A model that's a little big.

I will soon be coming into possession of a Flatiron 2MC, which I may sell.

f5dude: In the interest of fairness, you can give it to me since my birthday is tomorrow... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I never saw a stock Flatiron pancake-type without the fan tailpiece... it's probably a replacement since stringing that tailpiece is the only bad thing about that mando! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

pd

fatt-dad

Mar-04-2005, 7:55pm

Any other questions?
It's all good here. I just know that for myself, sometimes it's hard to "just get one" and then sell it - ha. Have you had one to play yet? You may just want to keep it.

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Mar-04-2005, 11:26pm

Yep I know what you mean fatt-dad. It is hard to "just get one." I have my 1N which is just awesome. This will actually be my second 2mc. I bought one last year and sold it some months later. It was very nice. It had a great sound and feel and the fan-like tailpiece. I just sold a 1CH which was really awesome too. Sometimes I wish I would have kept them all as part of a quest to collect the whole Flatiron line of army-navy mandos. But finances will not allow.

On a related topic, a friend of mine just had a mad rush of MAS. In a period of 3 weeks he bought an old Martin mandolin. Then he decided to sell it (at a profit) and he bought a Flatiron 2MC (the one I'm buying in fact). Then almost overnight he decides he might as well step on up to a Gibson A-9. After a quick search on the net, I find him a great deal on a new A-9. He calls the store and buys it. What next?

fatt-dad

Mar-05-2005, 2:07pm

There's a big difference between an A9 and a 2MC IMHO. I think that my collection will always have my 1N, my A3, my A5-1 and my new Stanley (yes, I bought it)! So, I think I have the basis covered. I guess I'll keep my Stiver A for awhile also. . . .

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Mar-05-2005, 4:37pm

Check out this army-navy style mando currently on ebay (I have no connection to it):

Handmade Kneeland Mandolin (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7305901030&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)

fatt-dad

Mar-05-2005, 7:35pm

I hope they sound great and play well. Looks real interesting and quite a favorable price if it goes for $500.00.

(nothing in it for me either).

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Mar-10-2005, 10:42pm

Hey fatt-dad and the rest, here is a picture of my recently acquired Flatiron 2MC. Notice the different tailpiece. I'm guessing a previous owner made the change in tailpiece. Anybody have a tailpiece cover that says "The Flatiron" ?

fatt-dad

Mar-11-2005, 7:39am

f5dude,

What's the serial number/vintage of that mandolin? A "The Flatiron" tailpiece may not be authentic for a real early Flatiron. I say that as my early 80s A5-1 (with a tailpiece like that) is not inscribed. I think that was a later feature - maybe even when The Gibson bought them, but not sure.

F-d

Nathan Sanders

Mar-11-2005, 8:39am

Fatt, the 2MC is a '96 model built in Montana, but I am not really concerned whether or not "The Flatiron" tailpiece is authentic. I think it would just look cool since this mando has this type of tailpiece. As a friend of mine suggested, I could get this tailpiece engraved locally, but I probably won't.

pickinNgrinnin

Mar-11-2005, 8:48am

f5dude-

Do you have a shot of the back side??

PaulD

Mar-11-2005, 12:06pm

f-d,

My '81 1SH has the same clam shell looking tailpiece as your's (the one you posted a pic of on 3/3). No engraving. In fact, it looks the same as my old bowl-back other than the fact that it's shiny.

pd

fatt-dad

Mar-11-2005, 12:13pm

PaulD,

10-4 on that. I am just wondering when did Flatiron start using the engraving of "The Flatiron" on their Gibson-style tailpieces (recognizing that this is off the topic of the pancake)? I ask this cause my A5 Flatiron has the Gibson-style tailpiece, but is not engraved.

On the matter of the pancake, I'm pretty sure that f5dude's is a replacement. I also suspect that it makes little difference on the sound.

f-d

Nathan Sanders

Mar-11-2005, 1:23pm

Yep, I'm sure the tailpiece is probably a replacement. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but my F-5 is in the shop right now for warranty work. A couple of weeks ago I took my F-5 to a local luthier for a partial refret. A few days ago I picked it up. By the way, the luthier did a great job;the new frets look as good as new. Well, when I got home I got my F-5 out to look at it more and tune it up. It was then I noticed the tailpiece....IT WAS BROKEN!! It was coming apart at the 90-degree bend. I took it back to the luthier. He said he'd seen this type of break before, but failed to notice it on mine. Anyway, since I am the original owner and have the sales receipt and he is an authorized Gibson repair guy, warranty will cover the cost of repairs. It almost makes me wish I had the original tailpiece for my 2MC, but I do not.

Anyway, I'll upload a picture of the back of the Flatiron later tonight or tomorrow. It sounds really awesome. Did you notice the little rubber "donuts" on the strings between the bridge and tailpiece? I've never run into these. Are they vibration dampers or what? Any thoughts?

fatt-dad

Mar-11-2005, 1:37pm

F5dude, HERE (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Mandolin_tailpieces/Scalloped_Mandolin_Tailpiece.html) is where you can buy a "replacement-type" tailpiece for your pancake. On a whim I went to www.stewmac.com and found this link almost immediately. You may loose yourself at this site if you've never been there 'cause it has all sorts of interesting stuff.

I would like to hear more about the dampers on tailpiece side of the bridge. I've noticed that some folks weave a leather lace in the string sets, some use those donut things, some use felt on the underside of the strings at the tailpiece and some (me) do nothing. I guess there could be harmonic overtones, I just don't seem to hear them when I play, but then again maybe thats what the audience is complaining about - ha.

fatt-dad

Nathan Sanders

Mar-11-2005, 1:48pm

Thanks dad for the link! I may just have to get one of these original type of tailpieces. I've been to Stew Mac's site before but I didn't even think about checking for a tailpiece. If I were a woodworker I'd probably buy one of their kits. I met a guy once who had built a couple of pancake mandolins, just like the Flatirons. I do not know if he used the Stew Mac kits or what. He had colored his mandos too. One was green and the other was blue. Quite interesting, and they sounded pretty good.

Nathan Sanders

Mar-11-2005, 5:59pm

Here's a picture of the back of the 2MC

pickinNgrinnin

Mar-11-2005, 6:19pm

Oh, that's mighty nice. Looks like the sides are flamed too. So is this one for sale?? I'd go with the Stewmac tailpiece to get it back to an original look. The other one is definitely a replacement.

10 pages and counting http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Nathan Sanders

Mar-12-2005, 10:29pm

Hey Pick,

I have not decided yet whether to sale this one or not. It really is nice to play. And I just may go back to the clam-type tailpiece too. I would consider offers though..:) (and lets keep this thread goin'...)

bratsche

Mar-13-2005, 10:57am

I've seen lots of pictures of these instruments with the clamshell type tailpiece, but FWIW, my 1N mandola also has this same sort as yours, with a metal endpin. It looks pretty original (i.e. undisturbed), but who knows? It was made in '96 too.

bratsche

Nathan Sanders

Mar-13-2005, 12:38pm

Interesting bratsche. I guess we could ask Bruce Weber?

fatt-dad

Mar-14-2005, 10:42am

Dear pancake fanciers:

For the last few years, I have had my Romanian Montana as my beach mandolin. Other than some corrosion on the machines, I've noticed no real issues from it being at the beach (yes, it's taken a few spills off the beach chair and into the sand and no, I don't always keep it in the case). I just have decided that it is such a lousy mandolin I may start using my 1N as this years beach mandolin. Here is your chance to talk me into it or out of it. I would recognize the need to spray the machines with wd-40 and would not likely carry it in its case. It would be subjected to wind but little water.

Am I crazy? I just really want to be able to enjoy playing the mandolin when I sit at the beach.

fatt heading-to-page-11 dad

Nathan Sanders

Mar-14-2005, 12:09pm

Aww fatt,

It pains me to think of the abuse the Flatiron might get on the beach. But then again it would be nice to play one at the beach. Man I just don't know. Why not pick up an ovation mando somewhere and abuse the heck out of it. Rainsong should make a mando.

PaulD

Mar-14-2005, 12:56pm

f5dude - That is one sharp looking mando... much nicer than my 1SH

f-d - I would be a shame if the 1N sustained damage due to being a beach mando, but if that's where you would get the most pleasure out of it... go for it. While I can understand the mentality that we are "custodians" of our instruments, I say it was built to make music and provide pleasure and you should decide how it can best fulfill that purpose. I'm sure you would take reasonable precautions with it anyway, but it would certainly safer if it never left a temperature/humidity controlled glass case! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

My 1SH finish is pretty bad from being my only mandolin for years, and the fact that I only had its original cardboard case. I would like to touch up the finish, but I don't regret all the times I had it with me out camping or carried it to parties/jams in my backpack while riding my bike in the winter. That's what trashed the finish... it still sounds great. It's served its purpose well, and I'll try to keep it playable for the rest of my years.

pd

PaulD

Mar-14-2005, 12:59pm

I also meant to comment on the donuts... I've never used the donuts, and I don't have anything to dampen the strings on my Flatiron. I found the two Gibsons, however, both needed damping so I went with the leather between the strings. The Gibson A has the short tailpeice, the F-9 has the long one like f5dude's Flatiron.

pd

fatt-dad

Mar-14-2005, 1:48pm

PaulD: Regarding the use/abuse matter, I'm with you to a point. I mean, I would not think of using my 1920 A3 at the beach, nor one or two of the others. The deal with the 1N is that I had it with me at a state park over the weekend, and I was playing it to the trees and really enjoyed having it with me. I have carried my Romanian mandolin to the beach and have seen little damage to the finish, but I really don't enjoy playing it as much (setup, tone, etc). I guess if I was to have a mandolin relegated to the status of "beach mandolin" it would be nice if it had good tone, good playability and some level of stability. The fact that my 1N already had a checkerboard finish (i.e., lacquer cracks) some spots worn through the finish and no finish on the back of the neck shows it's working heritage. Maybe that's enough to push me over the edge and just retire the Romanian mandolin and hire the Flatiron for beach duty?

f-d

PaulD

Mar-14-2005, 2:13pm

I can understand wanting to take a mando that "sings" to you (not to mention that the trees would probably appreciate it more http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) rather than a box with strings. I've never played an Ovation mando, which was one suggestion for a beach mando, but I know I don't care much for playing their guitars unplugged. I'm not trying to bash Ovation, a lot of people love them. I don't blame you for not wanting to use your A3 as a beach mando, but if you wanted to I would consider it foolish, not morally reprehensible.

I think the Flatiron is a great instrument for this purpose. They were originally relatively cheap. They're small, light, loud, fun to play. I still think you should take care of it; use it, but not abuse it. A beach or camping instrument is going to be subject to more stress and possibility for damage. I've loved packing mine around and will continue to do so.

pd

PS: are we almost to page 11 yet? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Nathan Sanders

Mar-14-2005, 3:31pm

OK, maybe this will get us to page 11.

I have more information about the clam shell tailpiece and the traditional tailpiece on my 2MC. Bratsche mentioned she has the same tailpiece on her 96 Flatiron 1N mandola that I have on my 2MC. Well, I went to the source to find out more information. I e-mailed Paula at Sound To Earth, Weber's shop, and here is her reply:

"Yes, we had to switch to the more standard non-clam style tailpiece. #Steve Carlson had about 5000 tailpieces originally made by a maker. #During the years following, the maker died; and we were unable to locate his survivors and/or the tooling...pjl"

pickinNgrinnin

Mar-14-2005, 7:54pm

Papa Gordo!

Friends don't let friends take their 1N's to the beach. Sure it plays and sounds great but you have a load of other Mandolins you could bring that would do well. Some of the A styles you have for sale could be converted to a beach mando!
No need to get carried away http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hey f5dude- Great info about the tailpiece mystery! I would have sworn the standards were not original. So I guess if you have one with a clamshell style tailpiece, it's worth even more money http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

fatt-dad

Mar-14-2005, 8:20pm

But I want to sell them, I don't want to sell my 1N.

Nathan Sanders

Mar-15-2005, 8:18am

I hear you fatt. I don't want to sell my 1N either. My 1N is a keeper. The 2MC is fast becoming a keeper. Sometimes I wish I'd kept the 1CH.

Take the 1N to the beach. It deserves some fun in the sun anyway. Besides, if I remember right, you've had quite a bit of work done to it anyway haven't you. I'd still take precautions when taking it out there though. Or what you could do is find one of those cheap, plywood, Nashville-made pancakes and use it as a beach mando. I had one for a short time and it had a great sound and played fine. Just a thought.

fatt-dad

Mar-15-2005, 8:48am

Or what you could do is find one of those cheap, plywood, Nashville-made pancakes and use it as a beach mando.
Had one and sold it. Not likely to get another.

There is a real side to me that is certain that my 1N will become the next beach mandolin, even if it suffers some of the associated ravages. I want to get my "fleet" of mandolins down to a few, each of which serve a specific purpose. I have the 1N for informal old-time get togethers and now THE BEACH. I guess, I'm not quite sure the best method to protect the machines or whether I should just go and buy a set of Grovers and let them be the sacrificial set for the summer.

f-d