Acoustic amps

[twid3]

Curious to know what type of acoustic amps are best suited for the mandolin, and not necessarily just for bluegrass.
twid3

[Tim2723]

Hi and welcome to the board.

Unlike the electric guitar amp, which is known for specific brands and models having unique sounds favored for different kinds of music, the objective of the acoustic amp is to amplify the intrument with the least degree of tone coloring. #They are, in very basic terms, a single cabinet PA system. #In theory at least, there shouldn't be a specific 'sound' from an acoustic amp. #That is, there isn't a 'Bluegrass' amp or an 'Old Time' amp, or a 'Celtic' amp. #While you find electric guitarists discussing their amps and comparing the characterisitcs of things like a Fender Twin Reverb to a Marshall half-stack, you don't (or at least aren't supposed to) have the same thing in acoustic amps.

As to which is best, well, the best by definition would be that which colors the tone least of all. #It just makes you sound exactly like you, but loud. #There are a bunch of these on the market now, and I'm sure folks will chime in with their personal favorites. #I happen to like a couple. #I have a small Crate that works nicely, and I've used the Peavey effectively. But there are others. Not surprisingly, I've been most impressed by acoustic amps made by the companies that have the most experience in PA systems, since that's what an acoustic amp is supposed to be.

[Terry W. Harvey]

i've been real happy playing through my fender acoutasonic jr. it has 2 separate channels, 1 for direct inst. input jack & the other has XLR jack or inst jack. also, you can run it into the house P.A. deigned specifically for acoustic stringed insts. i use it for mandolin, guitar & vocals etc.

[Stephen Perry]

I use the Shire King 60. Excellent clean amplifier, think the drivers are much better than standard. Tough, too!

[John Flynn]

I have a Crate AC30, which works fine. I use it at church every Sunday. It has a big voice and a lot of features for a fairly inexpensive amp with only 30 watts. One I'm lusting after, though, is the AAD Cub-100. This thing is a 100 watt acoustic amp that only weighs 12 pounds and is incredibly small. I played my Rigel through it in a store and was impressed.

Another one I liked the store was the Schertler David. The guy there said it is by far thier biggest selling acoustic amp and they had a pretty big selection of them. I'm ambivalent about it, though, because as strange as it is to say, the David's acoustic reproduction was almost too accurate. It had a sound that was almost like having your ear right on the sound hole, hearing all the little body and string noises. I might come to like that and/or I might be able to EQ it out, but at first blush, it was a little overpowering. One I would like to try is the new LR Baggs amp.

[Mace]

AER have their fans also.

[pettyman]

I've got a Marshall AS50D which sounds great with the mandolin played through it via a Dhure SM58 mic! Very pleased with the results!

[Tim2723]

Hi twid3,

As you can see, we're already well on the way to naming every acoustic amp on the market. They're are all good ones. Indeed, any well-made acoustic amp will sound good if it does the job of straight amplification. Maybe we could help you more if you tell us about your requirements. What size room(s), noisy or quiet venues, other uses for the amp, transportation needs, that sort of thing.

[Mike Bunting]

AER have their fans also.
You can count me as one. I have used Ultrasound and the Strawberry Blond (forget who makes them) and for me the AER is best in sound, plus it has a lo-z input with phantom power which is convenient for my AKG C411 mic/pu. It's about 18" square and has a great carrying bag with lots of pouches for carrying the rest of my necessities. Mando in one hand and amp, cords etc in the other and I'm out the door! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[steve in tampa]

Roland AC60

[Soupy1957]

Lately, some of Sam Bush's musical creations, are sure sounding more "electric" than before....(and a bit more "pop-ish" as well)...

Gimme a mic and group rotation, every time....

-Soupy1957 (Non-electric advocate)

[Klaus Wutscher]

Gimme a mic and group rotation, every time....
works GREAT in a country or rock band, with drums, electric guitars and all...

sorry, but sometimes, amplification is a must. Yes, it will always be a compromise, but these days the results can be very convincing - this isn´t the 70ies anymore. (Now is that good or bad http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif )

[Patchouli]

I play with a drummer and other electric instruments. I am using K&K Big Twin and I really like Roland AC 90. The anti feedback is a great feature. The AC 90 reproduces the ringing sound and the”pop" sound I want.

[mando andy]

Anyone tried the Kustom Sienna 65?? Has several features that seem nice..phantom powered xlr in, to 1/4 inch inputs, effects,etc.

What do you think??

Andy

[Tim2723]

Hi Andy,

Is there something in particular that attracted you to the Sienna 65? I haven't tried one, but looking at the spec sheet it seems to be fairly run-of-the-mill for features and power. To be frank, I was never a fan of the Kustom products. Is there something about it that you feel would solve a particular problem?

[Snakebeard Jackson]

the larger issue here is not which ones sound good. Because with the right know turning they all sound pretty good. THe issue I would take a look at if I wer you is volume! How loud do you have to be? For me a fender won't cut through the powered speakers on stage. so I need at least 120+ watts. I was using a 160 watt Genz Benz. with class A electronics. I used it because that is the power I needed to keep up with those cotton picking guitar players. However if I had my choice I would have liked the smaller 80 watt amp for tonal sound.

[250sc]

Anyone hear the Fishman Loud Box or Loud Box 100?

The price seems right.

[earthsave]

Fender Acoustasonic Jr.

[steve V. johnson]

Mike Bunting wrote, "... the Strawberry Blond (forget who makes them) ..."

I believe SWR, the bass amp folks make those. #I really like SWR bass amps, but that's another kettle o' fish... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

A good friend of mine has a Strawberry Blonde. #It's big and heavy (two strikes against it for me), powerful and very versatile. It has at least two channels, a DI out and lots of controls. It can sound very natural or get very ... original... too. #

It's ok. #Too big and powerful for -my- uses, and my pal doesn't bring it out to gigs very often either. #But if you've got to cut an acoustic instrument's pickup thru a band with drums, bass and keys, this one would do it and sound either genuine or different.

I think there are others that are smaller & simpler.

stv

[Tim2723]

Snakebeard has the solid point. They all sound good today. Everybody makes one, and they do nice work. Concentrate on the power you need and, equally important, road-worthyness and dependability. If you're going to take it to church on Sunday that's one thing, if you're going to haul it to gigs, that's something else.

[theBlood]

Two things or so:

Its important to have a good idea of the usage before spending resources on an amp. If you're playing outdoor gigs, you may find 50 or 60 watts to be marginal. If you're using a mic then you're going to want phantom power and not all amps provide that.

Its also important to understand the dispersion difference between an amp and PA speakers. Not often discussed. But I've found that an amp spreads the sound out quite widely, which means you can hear nicely when your playing nearby, but it also means;
1. way more feedback possibility
2. The sound quality gets compromised 2 or 3 rows back after its bounced off of nearby walls.

I used a nice Trace Elliott TA100R (acoustic amp) for many gigs and it sound great on our end, but people never could hear in the back. Even when we got it up in the air.

Playing the same gigs with good, focussed, PA speakers was a revelation. We couldn't hear as well, but people could hear clearly in back at moderate volumes. Its amazing how different the sound can be out in the crowd as versus what you're hearing on stage. To reiterate: an amp can sound great when you're standing next to it, but it can start to sound muddled 30 feet away if there are walls.

My suggestion, therefore, would be to get a good preamp and then a powered speaker like the Mackie SRM350. Its going to sound a ton better (175w) and reach farther. Plus, you can put it in the air over people's heads which is a huge benefit. You also have a starting piece to a system you can build on. Those speakers are popular and easy to resell if they don't work out.

Anyway, good luck.

JY

[mando andy]

I was looking at the Kustom Sienna amp because of its wattage (65)--it seemed ok for playing small gigs (coffee house, etc) and it also has phantom power. This would be a starter amp...there are so many recommendations and it seems people feel so strongly different ones.

I just wondered if anyone had any experience with them.

I also think that at the lower price range (say under $1000). You have to accept the fact that you have departed from true acoustic sound and the difference between comparable amps is relatively minor. Maybe I am wrong on that-----this is new territory for me since I am technologically challanged.

Andy
Madison, WI

[mythicfish]

"the difference between comparable amps is relatively minor"

That's why they're "comparable".

Curt

[mandroid]

Poland AC 60,
bought as much for the back side as the front.
need more power?, plugging in to another power amp is provided for.
also run guitar synth set thru it, and as a powered subwoofer driven Bass,
it's plenty loud enough for the Neighbors...
works with 2 instruments at the same time, like Schertler PU
and the humbucker fitted electric.

[groveland]

Another for Roland. I also use the Roland AC60 running with the Roland KCW-1 subwoofer with a Moon cittern (EMG pickup in the soundhole always, various piezos or condenser mics in the body sometimes) for a big full spectrum sound. The AC60 sounds good for my Rigel mando and the sub adds a nice percussive little pop to it. (It's also huge for my Ovation acoustic guitar.)

All the things Mandroid said, too. Very versatile. I am not crazy about the onboard effects, so I go through a lexicon/dbx and back into the stereo aux in. All kinds of input and output possibilities. Phantom power for mics. Piezo or magnetic inputs. Etc.

For me, the sub is a must. They have an AC90 now if you actually need more power in the higher end, but I think the AC60 provides ample articulation, it mainly needs help in the body so I'd rather invest the $$$ there, and that's where the sub comes in.

[mandroid]

same pair, a good match, considering installing a high hat/ pole socket
in the top of My KCW-1, to match the one in the bottom of the AC-60,
raise the Amp up a couple feet.

[ira]

don't be fooled by price re: kustom. i love their products- i have one of their p.a. systems and have had great success with it. i haven't tried the sienna- but don't be surprised by big quality with inexpensive cost- rare to find as a reality, but true with many kustom products. also- just b/c its less expensive doesn't make it starter-if rooms you play will be big enough for the amplification the product provides.

[jim_n_virginia]

When I play as part of a duet and it's an intimate venue I have two Marshall ASR50's (2 channels on each amp) on those stands that lift the amp off the floor and tilt it up. One on each side of us and it puts out a great sound. I would highly recommend one even if you where just using one amp.

[bikebum]

Crate CA30D is what I have. It seems to be very good in acoustic reproduction. This one also has some capability in signal processing. My Rigel matches up with it quite well.

[BlueMountain]

AER Alpha. In it's case, it's about a foot square and weighs about the same as a mandolin in a Calton case. Very reliable. Superb acoustic sound reproduction. That's assuming that you have a good pickup.

[david blair]

I second the opinion for a good pre-amp and a powered speaker. More watts from the speaker, clear sound, light weight, and pre amp features like phantom power, stereo inputs, split signals, tuner out with mute, multiple instrument inputs with separate eq, multiple outputs with separate volume control, effects loops, phase reverse, high and low z settings, bells, whistles.

[Mandorlando]

Rivera makes a line of high-end acoustic amps. # The Sedona is tube amp with one channel designed for acoustic instruments and the other for electric. # #The acoustic side is outstanding, warmth you can only get from tubes. # #It weighs about eighty pounds though. # Also, as one suggested, a good preamp with a powered speaker works nicely for lots of different applications.

[jaco]

I just picked up an AER Compact 60 from Dream Guitars. It is by far the most realistic sounding acoustic amplifier I have ever tried. Weighs in at 16 lbs. with a zip up case and shoulder strap. Mandolin, acoustic guitar, vocals, archtop guitar; you name it, this does the job.

[entau]

have the SWR blonde as well ( on loan)

versitile - and loud

almost too big for just mandolin
but works great as a vocal/guitar amp ( as the owner uses it)- covers for a P.A. in a pinch

I'm feeding the mando and mandocello into a splitter then a
tc m300 effects box, through a roland loop station and into the blonde

handles the bottom end of the mandocello well
very clean


the SWR blondes are ornery though (but tough)- heavy to lug around
almost too much for a small coffee house

It would be great if the head was seperate from the speaker
or even a head with matching stereo speakers

[jealbe49]

I have always loved EV speakers for acoustic music. The sxa100 is powered, has a mic preamp, line in with balance and EQ. It is excellent for solo gigs or as a stage monitor and sounds great. Here is a link but many retailers carry them.


EV SXA100plus (http://www.zzounds.com/item--ELVSXA100PLUS)

[old9600]

The Genz Benz Shenandoah 60 works great for me.

http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=1834&sid=420&cid=94

[Shelby Eicher]

If you or your group are using a PA, it's easy to pony up on that system. PAs are full range and should do everything and more than an acoustic amp. My rig for club bands are 2 JBL EON 10" spread like the PA. How loud do they want to play? For small duo gigs, we both preamp directly in to the PA and call it finished. Since I play mutliple instruments I put a rack together to manage all of my different needs. Separate preamps for different instruments into a Mackie board, 2 Rane 15 band parmetric EQs through the inserts, Yamaha SPX 90 II for verb. I can manage an external microphne through the mackie if I want. This way I can swith from mando to fiddle or mandola or guitar at the push of a couple buttons. I have my gains, eq, effects, etc. already set for each instrument. As soon as you put a pickup in an instrument is when your trouble begins.
Shelby

[foldedpath]

Rivera makes a line of high-end acoustic amps. The Sedona is tube amp with one channel designed for acoustic instruments and the other for electric. The acoustic side is outstanding, warmth you can only get from tubes. It weighs about eighty pounds though.

More like 65 lbs. (I have one), but that's still a beast to carry around. There's nothing else like it if you need a good electric guitar tone, and also the ability to flip over to an acoustic amp in the same box. But there are better options if you're only amplifying acoustic instruments.


Also, as one suggested, a good preamp with a powered speaker works nicely for lots of different applications.

The Sedona ended up too heavy to carry around much, so I switched to using a preamp and one or two Mackie SRM450 powered speakers. It's more cumulative weight, but the SRM450's only weigh 50 lbs. each, and there is a lighter weight, lower powered version that's almost as good (I forget the model name). The Mackies have a deeper, tighter low end than the Sedona too, although that may not matter depending on what you're amplifying.

[Ted Eschliman]

If you're looking for something for a small ensemble (or just a near-field reference on stage) this is an amazing sounding amp for genuine acoustic tonal color. Street price at $199.

http://jazzmando.com/images/US5.jpg

More info here: UltraSound AG-30 Review (http://jazzmando.com/spotlight_ultrasound_ag30.shtml).

[Seth Austen]

I've got a Fishman Performer Loudbox, we're using it as a mini PA, works great for any acoustic instrument and voice.

Seth

[ajh]

Ted,

On the Ultrasound review you used a Mix with a pickup. #Have you tried the Ultrasound with a mic? #And if so, how did it work out (and with what setup)?

Thanks
Tony


Thanks Ted........

[Ted Eschliman]

Tony, really a mic would be counter-productive with the AG-30, even if it had an XLR in (which it does not). I haven't tried the next one up yet, but the purpose of this one is really more nearfield monitoring and extremely small venue/ensemble.