Eastman, morgan monroe or michael kelly [Archive]

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sinebar

Sep-23-2007, 10:19am

Hello all, I'm a flute player new to this board and thinking about getting a mandolin for playing Irish Traditional. I can spend about 700-800 and I'm looking at the Eastman MD515-CS, Morgan Monroe MMS8 or the Michael Kelly Legacy Deluxe. From what I gather the Eastman is superior to the other two. What do the experts think about that?
Thanks in advance.

Brady Smith

Sep-23-2007, 10:29am

Well...you'll get all kinds of opinions on that and for the most part you're probably correct. #I have an Eastman 815 which appears to be the best Eastman I've run across. #I also have an MK...The MK I have is better than the Eastmans. #Play a few, have others play some for you etc...they will all vary in sound, some good and some not so hot.

And do a search on here for each of them because this is a common topic.

M. Hollen

Sep-23-2007, 10:36am

I don't present myself as an expert (although I play one on T.V.) ;) However, I have owned Morgan Monroe, Michael Kelly and Eastman. #IMO, the Eastman is the better deal. #I have found my Eastman easier to play, I think it has better tone and the workmanship looks better on mine. #I'll now insert the standard disclaimer and say you will need to play/have someone play all of them and get the one that speaks to you. #Also, and I speak from experience, don't get locked into scroll envy. #You can get more mando for the money if you look at A styles as well.

Celtic Saguaro

Sep-23-2007, 11:13am

sinebar

Sep-23-2007, 12:16pm

I have an MK and an Eastman. The Eastman is much more carefully made, much better sounding, although I am in no hurry to get rid of the MK.

As the others have said, the best thing to do, if you have the opportunity, is to try as many as you can. Mandolins aren't like Pringle's chips. They don't all come out exactly the same from the same manufacturer. All the rest of us can do is tell you what is generally true.
Well unfortunately trying out different mandolins is just not an option for me because of area I live in. The music shops are all small mom and pop type and their inventory is very limited. My only choice is to buy from the best brand and hope for the best. This of course does not include Gibson for obvious reasons. Some retailers will give you a trial period so that will definately help. Just need to know what the best brand would be.

Jason Holmes

Sep-23-2007, 12:19pm

I have a varnished MandoVoodooed Eastman 615 that is the best Eastman I've yet come across, granted it's gotten a lot better sounding over time, but it was excellent to begin with. Personally I never found another Asian-made instrument (MK, MM, KY, etc.) in that general price range that I would trade my particular Eastman for, though I do hear more lately about JBovier instruments being similarly nice, so that might be another to consider. As said before, try some various makes and models if you can, and don't assume the most expensive will sound and play the best. I hear all the time about some lesser model outperforming a fancier one. And while I am in the process of obtaining another significantly nicer instrument, still I have no intention of getting rid of my Eastman. I'm too fond of it.

good_ol_al_61

Sep-23-2007, 1:47pm

jasonh847:

All I can say is, "Ditto".

MandoBen

Sep-23-2007, 2:15pm

I have compared all those brands over the years and I find that the Eastman mandolins consistantly blow the others away. I think they spend a little more time on the higher end models though, and getting a cheaper Eastman will probably not sound quite as good as their 800 or 900 series. Three of the best Eastmans I played were all 605 models, all were older and well played.:)

Jason Holmes

Sep-23-2007, 2:22pm

Interesting. I've heard that the 8xx and 9xx instruments just feature fancier woods and gold versus chrome hardware compared to the 6xx series. I've heard of actual hardware differences between 6xx and 5xx series instruments, as well as a shaped case versus an oblong one, but that was a while back so I'm not sure if that's still the case about the parts. Personally I initially gravitated toward the 6xx series over the 5xx series just for the bound back, then better hardware, and the oblong case.

manicmando

Sep-23-2007, 3:09pm

i have a Eastman 615 # 789 sounds good but i wish it had bigger fret wire just my opinion

MandoSquirrel

Sep-23-2007, 4:01pm

For that money you could get a used instrument that would be way better than any of those. check the classifieds, there should be something.

DryBones

Sep-23-2007, 6:15pm

having owned a MK and an Eastman or 2 I would have to say I preferred the Eastmans. That being said, I would also consider trying out a JBovier before making your choice. I bought 1 and played it against my Eastman and kept the one I liked the most. As always, YMMV http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jim MacDaniel

Sep-23-2007, 7:44pm

It sounds like the scroll of an F-style appeals to you visually, but one of the following handmade mandolins from board sponsor Gypsy's Music would lend themselves well to playing Irish trad: they have excellent tone, sustain, and volume, and they have a wider neck which may benefit you when playing mandolin as a melody instrument (as in Irish trad ;)...

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Mandolin-Gypsy-Vagabond-Handcrafted-Solid-Wood-USA_W0QQitemZ190155682998QQihZ009QQcategory

Z10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Spruce over walnut, no binding, w/ case, $325</a>

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Mandolin-Gypsy-Spirit-Handcrafted-Solid-Wood_W0QQitemZ190153921869QQihZ009QQcategoryZ10179

QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Spruce over maple, with binding and pickguard, w/ case, $650</a>

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Mandolin-Gypsy-Spirit-Handcrafted-Solid-Wood_W0QQitemZ190153923332QQihZ009QQcategoryZ10179

QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Spruce over quilted maple, with binding and pickguard, w/ case, $850</a>

Disclaimer: I have no financial interest, but I own a basic spruce over maple from Gypsy's -- which I purchased specifically for playing Irish and Scottish trad -- and I couldn't be happier with it.

sinebar

Sep-23-2007, 8:59pm

Jim MacDaniel

Sep-23-2007, 9:08pm

That looks sharp, and I really like that finish better than a sunbust. Of the Eastmans that I've played, I was definitely more fond of the sound of the oval hole models -- more open, full, and complex in tone -- and that should probably work out nicely for you.

Rick Cadger

Sep-24-2007, 2:34am

i have a Eastman 615 # 789 sounds good but i wish it had bigger fret wire just my opinion
just for information, Bovier mandos have slightly heavier fretwire than the standard.

Stephen Perry

Sep-25-2007, 12:17am

Some things to keep in mind, largely accounting for the differences in opinion on various brands:

1. Green mandolins sound different than broken in mandolins. Sometimes good mandolins are very tight when new, taking a good deal of playing to open up. Several makes I see routinely are this way. Ways exist to shortcut some of the break in period. Comparing mandolins that aren't fully broken in generally isn't going to give the same results as comparing them broken in.

2. Setup is absolutely crucial to sound and playability. I see a steady stream of mandolins in the shop for setup. Comparing set up mandolins to those not well set up presents the potential for selection to favor setup over the inherent qualities of the instruments.

3. People differ in skill. Playing skill. Listening skill. Also, they differ in need. Some need loud with a big chop. Some need subtle solo capabilities. Some need to cut through a banjo and guitar. Some don't need that punch. Stating personal preference as an absolute "this is better than that" doesn't really provide much guidance to others.

4. People differ in construction and appearance preference. For example, one of the makes mentioned in this thread has what look like die cut F holes of non-traditional outline. Another has hand cut traditional F holes. One make has a thick modern sprayed on finish, while the competitor has a varnish finish with a light spray of nitro. One has non-traditional interior barring, blocking, and bracing, while another follows traditional construction techniques. These differences matter a great deal to some and not at all to others. Some folks prefer a handmade look. Others prefer a "production line" instrument. They're just preferences, not absolutes!

5. One person's "lush and warm" is another person's "muddy and weak." One person's "tinny and thin" is another's "crisp and cuts like a chainsaw." The latter is particular a problem for weaker players who aren't driving the instruments with a big thick pick and lots of power. Worth keeping in mind! Some of the "warm and lush" cheap mandolins might blow up in the hands of a very strong player!

Onward:

No instrument can be all things to all people. A bit of tweeking goes a long way. And an experienced player knows what they need and can tell what they're missing in a particular instrument. I only have an independent review of my work on one particular instrument in this lineup, although I've worked on all three makes under discussion. Just to show the difference that break in and tweeking can make, I'll provide an excerpt from an article on David Bromberg, who seems to be an adequate guitar and mandolin player. He's quite a fellow - has the most amazing collection of American violins! And lots of other toys. He still plays a little, although he's mostly a violin guy like me these days. David's mandolin was a bit tight, but well played. Don't take my presentation of just one of the brands as disfavoring the others, I just haven't seen an independently published review of the other two brands. Post if you have them! I do have limited permission from VG to quote the article, and I'm sure they won't mind a bit of publicity. Nice publication!

“Eastman makes violins, and I’ve been dealing with their violins for a long time. To me, the mandolin is amazing - and I’ve had three Lloyd Loars at different times. It’s Chinese. Mandolin players talk about how an instrument does or does not ‘bark.’ Well, the only new mandolins ever played that barked – with the exception of one Gilchrist that’s better than any of the Loars I ever had – are a couple of Eastmans. They’re really good. The one thing about it that was not wonderful was that it was very trebly sounding. So I had Stephen Perry in Tennessee do his MandoVoodoo thing on it, and it’s now much deeper and richer sounding. It’s a better mandolin that I am a mandolin player.”

David Bromberg, Vintage Guitar, July 2007 quoted by Dan Forte

I can assure folks here that David's mandolin was very tight when I started on it. I worked on it in his shop, having him play it as I went along. That's the best way for me. It was trebly, as the Eastman line tends to be at first. Eastman isn't alone in that - most of the new big-name mandolins I've worked on are stiff and somewhat trebly. With a small amount of work the bottom end came in nicely, which is typical. This isn't an unusual result of working to bring out the whole spectrum of mandolin capabilities.

I've worked on the MM and MK lines as well, although not as extensively as the Eastman line. The ones I see generally suffer from setup failings. Ironing those out immediately helps the performance. Additional tweeking isn't as effective as on the Eastman line, possibly a result of design and construction differences. Also, possibly from the synthetic finishes I believe are on them. However, the changes are clear and make them into quite nice instruments. Generally they end up warm sounding, but without the incisive snap that I prefer.

I trust my observations will prove useful in evaluating these three makes. Every product is a compromise, and the makes under discussion take different paths.

Rick Cadger

Sep-25-2007, 2:28am

good post. :cool:

sinebar

Sep-25-2007, 6:43am

Some things to keep in mind, largely accounting for the differences in opinion on various brands:

1. #Green mandolins sound different than broken in mandolins. #Sometimes good mandolins are very tight when new, taking a good deal of playing to open up. #Several makes I see routinely are this way. Ways exist to shortcut some of the break in period. #Comparing mandolins that aren't fully broken in generally isn't going to give the same results as comparing them broken in.

2. #Setup is absolutely crucial to sound and playability. #I see a steady stream of mandolins in the shop for setup. #Comparing set up mandolins to those not well set up presents the potential for selection to favor setup over the inherent qualities of the instruments. #

3. #People differ in skill. #Playing skill. #Listening skill. #Also, they differ in need. #Some need loud with a big chop. #Some need subtle solo capabilities. #Some need to cut through a banjo and guitar. #Some don't need that punch. #Stating personal preference as an absolute "this is better than that" doesn't really provide much guidance to others. #

4. #People differ in construction and appearance preference. #For example, one of the makes mentioned in this thread has what look like die cut F holes of non-traditional outline. #Another has hand cut traditional F holes. #One make has a thick modern sprayed on finish, while the competitor has a varnish finish with a light spray of nitro. #One has non-traditional interior barring, blocking, and bracing, while another follows traditional construction techniques. #These differences matter a great deal to some and not at all to others. #Some folks prefer a handmade look. #Others prefer a "production line" instrument. #They're just preferences, not absolutes!

5. #One person's "lush and warm" is another person's "muddy and weak." #One person's "tinny and thin" is another's "crisp and cuts like a chainsaw." #The latter is particular a problem for weaker players who aren't driving the instruments with a big thick pick and lots of power. #Worth keeping in mind! #Some of the "warm and lush" cheap mandolins might blow up in the hands of a very strong player!

Onward:

No instrument can be all things to all people. #A bit of tweeking goes a long way. #And an experienced player knows what they need and can tell what they're missing in a particular instrument. #I only have an independent review of my work on one particular instrument in this lineup, although I've worked on all three makes under discussion. #Just to show the difference that break in and tweeking can make, I'll provide an excerpt from an article on David Bromberg, who seems to be an adequate guitar and mandolin player. #He's quite a fellow - has the most amazing collection of American violins! #And lots of other toys. #He still plays a little, although he's mostly a violin guy like me these days. #David's mandolin was a bit tight, but well played. #Don't take my presentation of just one of the brands as disfavoring the others, I just haven't seen an independently published review of the other two brands. Post if you have them! #I do have limited permission from VG to quote the article, and I'm sure they won't mind a bit of publicity. #Nice publication!

“Eastman makes violins, and I’ve been dealing with their violins for a long time. To me, the mandolin is amazing - and I’ve had three Lloyd Loars at different times. #It’s Chinese. #Mandolin players talk about how an instrument does or does not ‘bark.’ #Well, the only new mandolins ever played that barked – with the exception of one Gilchrist that’s better than any of the Loars I ever had – are a couple of Eastmans. #They’re really good. #The one thing about it that was not wonderful was that it was very trebly sounding. #So I had Stephen Perry in Tennessee do his MandoVoodoo thing on it, and it’s now much deeper and richer sounding. #It’s a better mandolin that I am a mandolin player.”

David Bromberg, Vintage Guitar, July 2007 quoted by Dan Forte

I can assure folks here that David's mandolin was very tight when I started on it. #I worked on it in his shop, having him play it as I went along. #That's the best way for me. #It was trebly, as the Eastman line tends to be at first. #Eastman isn't alone in that - most of the new big-name mandolins I've worked on are stiff and somewhat trebly. #With a small amount of work the bottom end came in nicely, which is typical. #This isn't an unusual result of working to bring out the whole spectrum of mandolin capabilities.

I've worked on the MM and MK lines as well, although not as extensively as the Eastman line. #The ones I see generally suffer from setup failings. #Ironing those out immediately helps the performance. #Additional tweeking isn't as effective as on the Eastman line, possibly a result of design and construction differences. #Also, possibly from the synthetic finishes I believe are on them. #However, the changes are clear and make them into quite nice instruments. #Generally they end up warm sounding, but without the incisive snap that I prefer.

I trust my observations will prove useful in evaluating these three makes. #Every product is a compromise, and the makes under discussion take different paths.
Well I bought the Eastman MD-615 from "the mandolin store" so I'll see how I like it when it come in.

Stephen Perry

Sep-25-2007, 6:48am

Well I bought the Eastman MD-615 from "the mandolin store" so I'll see how I like it when it come in.
If it's set up well and played hard for a while it should be very nice!

sinebar

Sep-25-2007, 8:51am

Well I bought the Eastman MD-615 from "the mandolin store" so I'll see how I like it when it come in.
If it's set up well and played hard for a while it should be very nice!
Don't know about the setup but it is supose to be brand new.

Celtic Saguaro

Sep-25-2007, 9:14am

The Mandolin Store sets them up nicely. I think you'll really enjoy it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

lastchair

Sep-25-2007, 11:03am

i have a Eastman 615 # 789 sounds good but i wish it had bigger fret wire just my opinion

So did I. But I put Thomastik stark strings on, and now it is easier to play even with the small frets and don't buzz and require as much finger pressure to get a good note (it came with J74?).

pager

Sep-26-2007, 6:38pm

Stephen's post was the most informative I have yet to read on the Cafe. #Thank you Stephen! #I remember reading that article in Vintage Guitar. #It was an overview of David Bromberg's amazing collection of instruments with great pictures included. #In there with some amazing Martin's, Gibson's and other vintage instruments that would make you drool, was his Eastman! #That Eastman was in GOOD company. #David sure had some great things to say about Eastman. #He had some high compliments to say about Stephen too. #By the way, David Bromberg is on the cover of the current Acoustic Guitar magazine with his signature Martin Guitar. #Thank you Stephen for an informative and very educational post.

Stephen Perry

Sep-26-2007, 11:30pm

Nice guy, busy, but still took the time to show us around before I worked over his mandolin. Had a nice lunch. We traded some things too. I had this junky old Italian violin etc. Everybody happy and his mandolin worked nicely. Interesting to have Bromberg demonstrating the Bromberg Martins!

I may have seemed as if I was disfavoring the MM and MK mandolins - I'm not. They're just a different product approach from Eastmans and from each other. I spring from the hand carved lots of personality school of instruments, so they appeal to me. As do the fairly soft finishes. On the other hand, I spend lots of time fixing Eastman mandolin finishes!

I also didn't mention that different mandolins may like different picks. I have a special pick everything likes, but the lesser picks aren't so well accepted by all mandolins. Just another picky detail to keep in mind.

Steve Ostrander

Sep-27-2007, 2:21pm

I have an Eastman 615 and a MK Dragonfly Custom III. If I could only own one, I would keep the Eastman. It's a little more woody and bassy than the MK. Having said that, I really like the MK. It has a decent chop, it's pretty, and it has great sustain, better than the Eastman, actually. I would say all things considered, it has 98% of the tone of the Eastman, and I just like it.

As far as volume goes, I play with two guitar players, and one says the Eastman is louder and the other says the MK is louder, so go figure. Personally, I think the Eastman is just a wee bit louder, but I'm not hearing it from five feet away like they are.

I haven't recorded either yet, I would like to do that and compare them. Or have some else play them while I listen from a few feet away.

finhlaven

Sep-28-2007, 1:47pm

I have a Morgan Monroe MF1 that I'm very happy with. In fact, it sounded much better than all but two mandolins in the well stocked shop I bought it from (those two were Collings in the $5,000 range). Among those that did not compare in tone were a third Collings, several Eastmans, a vintage Gibson A, a few Webers, and an A style Morgan Monroe that was identical in every way except for scroll and tone (spruce top w/mahogony back and sides--all solid). My MF1 has a nice woody tone, lots of volume, and a great chop. Maybe it was just a lucky fluke, but I don't think I could have done better anywhere near that price range ($695 with HSC).

I should point out the following shortcomings: Most, if not all, of those other instruments far surpassed mine in quality of finish; there is a problem with the nut(when the A strings are tuned in unison in the open position, they are slightly out of tune at each fret . . . I plan to replace it with a bone nut); there is some slight fret buzz at a couple of frets on the G strings when played hard; the fret wire is too small for my taste; and finally, loud and throaty sounding as it is, it seems to drop off somewhat on the higher notes, a problem those two Collings did not have.