Integral tone bars?

[Tighthead]

While reading the Siminoff luthier's handbook this morning, this idea struck me.

Has anyone tried to carve a top in such a way that the tone bars were of the same piece of wood? I guess what I mean is starting with a top of sufficient thickness, you would carve the top as "normal" exept that there would be two tone-bar shaped protrusions from the underside of the soundboard.

Would it be worth it? It would seem to be the ultimate connection between soundboard and tone bar, but it would add a lot of work, I think.

Sorry if this has been discussed before...I admit I didn't do a search beforehand.

[grandmainger]

I asked that same question a couple of years back, and got some good replies, which highlighted 2 facts that stuck to my head:

-the integrity of the glue joint is good enough to balance the trouble involved in carving the inside with integral bars (very tricky to not damage the bars)
- the grain direction of glued bars makes for a better strength of the bar. Should one carve these out of the top, the grain would run across the bar rather than along it... Doh!
HTH http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Germain

[jim simpson]

I have seen this on violins - usually poor quality though.

[amowry]

Yes, often violins of lesser quality have integral bass bars. I had someone replace the integral bass bar on my old Hopf fiddle, and it made a huge difference. To me, it seems like it would be more work carvng around integral bars than fitting and gluing in bars later.

[Nuages]

Yes, often violins of lesser quality have integral bass bars. I had someone replace the integral bass bar on my old Hopf fiddle, and it made a huge difference. To me, it seems like it would be more work carvng around integral bars than fitting and gluing in bars later.
Agreed that for a traditional mandolin top it wouldn't make sense. But what if you forget about the traditional design and imagine a top that is is carved to have a tone bar-like structure to it, but with the shape optimized for a desired effect. I'm picturing it as a web effect, where the strengthening/sound distributing elements are more gradual than a tone bar. With a CNC you could do as complex a design as needed...

[markishandsome]

Only one way to find out...

[Antlurz]

I think a lot of us have considered doing that at one time.

I know I used to think a lot about it.

...but I got over it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Ron