Anybody see "Frontline" on PBS tonite?

[TonyP.]

Wow. Tying in with the other previous threads good 'ol Frontline goes into the music biz and takes a look. They(the industry) say they are down from 40billion to 28billion a year. Some wanted to say it was downloading but others said it's because they are putting out junk, which is what I believe. It also explained because of the corp attitude the music has become secondary. It was also noted that having a hit is like threading a needle because EVERYTHING is corp owned right down to the radio stations. I came away with a better appreciation for the labels like Rounder, Sugar Hill, Acoustic Disc, etc. that in the face of all this is able to bring good music to us. Actually I feel like it's a miracle.......

[Bluegrass Boy]

Yeah, I watched it and thought about starting a discussion here. They didn't really say much that I didn't already know. The state of the music industry really doesn't bother me much at all. There will always be music, much of it inspired. When music becomes just another commodity, there's going to be a lot of less than inspired stuff put out. Of course, many musicians need to make money to do what they do. We can't all be starving musicians or musicians with day jobs. There's going to be working musicians, so it is unavoidable that commerce and music will mix. That's not a bad thing. It may be just a matter of scale. Someone can have a burning desire and talent to make great music, and also want to make it a successful business. People are complex and capable of multiple motivations. However, when you get the MBAs influencing artistic decisions, well, you'll get crap.

I feel very disconected from the whole pop music industry. There is some good stuff that is put out. But it doesn't really have much of an effect on the CDs I buy from people who play great music and promote their music face to face at festivals and small venues. Nor will the state of the music industry have much of an affect on my plucking away at home or with friends.

[Steve L]

I thought the Frontline show was superficial and obvious. They really didn't touch on the Indy scene at all, nor did they mention how technology is bringing world class recording and production methods right into the home studio.

I think there has never been a time on the planet that so much good music in a variety of idioms from all over the world has been so easily available. Bluegrass in Eastern Europe, Irish music in Japan, Gamelon groups in Vermont. This would have been unthinkable only decades ago.

The news that most pop music stinks and that the road to stardom is paved with tears didn't really arch my eyebrows.

[John Flynn]

I wish I had seen the segment, but I missed it. None of the comments here about it surprise me, however. I saw a great sticker on a lady's mandolin case at a workshop recently: "Real musicians have day jobs." That saying is seeming more true and piognant all the time. I am going to make it my Cafe' signature.

uh oh.......break out the BBQ sauce Johnny. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[John Flynn]

Dale:

I wouldn't have it any other way! Bring on the flames. I love it!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[Dru Lee Parsec]

I didn't see it but I wonder if they quoted any of the many studies that relate CD sales to downloading. #No, not the ones that say "Music downloading is killing sales". There are many studies that say this: #

The "average" consumer buys about 25 CDs a year and have a CD collection of 200 to 250 CD's on average.
People who described themselves as "avid online music downloaders" tend to buy 40 to 60 CD's a year and have a CD collection in the 350 to 600 range.

So the people who are beind sued and accused of "destroying the music industry" are actually the record companies best customers.

But doesn't downloading hurt the artist? #Let's look at the cost breakdown. #First of all realizing that the artist make about $1 off of each of those $18 CDs you buy at Barnes & Nobel or Tower Records.

Let's talk about a 5 piece band who gets a $100,000 advance. That money is recupable (meaning that the artist have to pay the record company for it).

They use the money to buy better equipment. Then they go into the studio and record a CD. Let's assume that the recording and mastering cost are ONLY $100,000. #That is also recupable.

The CD comes out and the record company has to promote the CD. #Promotion cost are also recupable. The typical cost for mid level marketing of a gold album is in the $200k to $250k range. #Mid level marketers are companies that the record companies pay to promote their product to the radio stations. #Payola is technically against the law, the record companies cannot wine and dine the radio execs to get their music on the radio. #But they can pay a mid level marketer to "promote" that music for them. #Let's say we spend only $150k to get this CD to go gold.

Ok, it sells 500,000 copies and the band gets $500,000 ($1 per CD). #The manager gets 15%

500,000 - 75,000 = 425,000
Subtract all the recupable cost:
425,000 - 350,000 = $75,000
Subtract taxes (assume 35%) = $48750
divided that among 5 artist means each artist got $9750
Now, to be fair, they also got to spend their advance money. So each band member really made about $29750. How's that stack up against the typical middle class yearly income?

Oh by the way, the record company profited about $3 per CD so they made $1.5 million.

And the artist doesn't own the publishing rights, the songs, their voice, or the CD masters.


Now compare that with a buddy of mine, Bob Culbertson (http://www.stickmusic.com/). No record contract, he records sells and produces his own CDs. #He pays his own cost for the burning of the CDs and printing of the CDs. but for each $15 CD he sells he gets to keep about $5 to $8. #Over the years he's sold about 300,000 copies. #His profit is left as an excercise for the class http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

So how exactly are the record companies supporting the artist again?

[steve V. johnson]

I taped the show and watched it later.

As for not touching the indie scene, I think they were probably wise to restrict it to ... um... watching the dinosaur die ... and reporting on that, tho I would have loved for them to mention some of the great indies you did.

I managed recording studios in SF and Wash., D.C., and had all the contact I could stand with major labels. In '83, when they dropped Van Morrison and Bonnie Raitt for selling fewer than 400,000 copies worldwide, I could see the writing on the wall.

Just as has happened with acoustic instruments recently, I see us entering a wonderful renaissance of independent music of all sorts, and of opportunity for artists.

I was at a party last night and a guy there was going on about "having" to self-release an album he has already made.
For many of us in the room, it was interesting because we are so accustomed to the musics we like (Irish trad, American "roots" and local artists) being put out by the artists themselves (albeit often with distribution of some sort) that I saw eyebrows raised around the room as he spoke of being surprised at not getting a deal...

When I left the big-studio business, I started telling all the folks I recorded that they are small businesses, just like the corner hardware store or ice-cream shop, and they just ought to try thinking of themselves that way (except without the brick-&-mortar overhead costs!<GG>)

All the paradigms of stardom have pretty much rotted away since folks discovered that stars, like candy bars or venetian blinds, can be manufactured and marketed... And I'm so glad that the more working-class standards of traditional musics are good and strong in our field.

Make your own recordings, make good friends, keep the money.

stv

[TonyP.]

I guess you could say it was "superficial and obvious" if your coming at it from the "indie" angle but I liked that they didn't get so broad trying to cover all the music. I feel like the indie thing is a whole other world and it would be really hard to say anything concrete about it like they could do with the "pop" scene(#'s of people and money made etc., it would be a guess right?). It's such a narrow avenue with the corps etc. you can get exactly what they go through and the "personalities" (the execs) and the A&R's etc.. Being always into off the beaten track I've never been interested in any of this stuff so some of it is news to me. I also love that I can put this stuff out here and have Bboy, Dru and stv come up with more great stuff. The main points for me of the show was like David Crosby pointed out, the guys who used to run labels were music freaks, now they are mba's and everything is on a deadline with a bottomline. I also liked that there was nothing but the idea they are losing money because they aren't putting out that good of stuff(one good song on a cd with 12 songs). The other thing was they were making money big time at first because everybody was replacing their vinyl. The other thing is they aren't doing like in the old days of going out to clubs and "discovering" bands, they just package. This is all stuff I wasn't paying attention to because being into acoustic and BG etc.

[AmosMoses]

Didn't see the program but I've heard all the rants. Personally I admit to downloading a few songs. The thing is I'm not downloading Casey Casem's Top Ten. I find songs that are rare/old/bluegrass? some which are unavailable to purchase. I never would have the same appreciation for bluegrass if I was not exposed to some great songs that I downloaded. Now when I see a Monroe or Skaggs or ? album I gladly fork over the bucks for the CD.

[TonyP.]

I feel like Frontline knew all the rants too and knew it was crap. For those who didn't see the show they didn't have any exec's going on about being ripped off, they had a music lawyer and hip hop exec saying if we were putting out better stuff our sales wouldn't be down. And when I think about it there was a kinda indie view with the girl as opposed to the packaged band Velvet Revolver . It sure looked like she was in her dad's home studio. I don't like the industry at all but Frontline sure didn't do anything to dress it up that's fer sure! I like stv's analogy that it's a dinosaur and it's dying under it's own weight and bad habits. It left me hopeful that the change to direct sales and the people who make the music get the money is REALLY what's killing the fat cats, not downloading. I didn't belive it anyway. Years ago a friend in the computer biz said, when asked about pirating, that Microsoft had an internal memo that said without it they never would have become as big. First you have to be known and that's the truth.

[Bandersnatch Reverb]

That show is what's known in the trade as a "fluff" piece. Total tripe.

[Spruce]

"Total tripe. "

I dunno...
A bowl of menudo in a Mexican market on a Sunday morning always seemed to have some substance for me....

I sure gained a lot of respect for Nic Harcourt (http://soundseclectic.com/) after watching that "fluff piece"....

His heart seems to be in the right place--rare in the music biz these days...

[steve V. johnson]

I feel like Frontline knew all the rants too and knew it was crap. For those who didn't see the show they didn't have any exec's going on about being ripped off, they had a music lawyer and hip hop exec saying if we were putting out better stuff our sales wouldn't be down. And when I think about it there was a kinda indie view with the girl as opposed to the packaged band Velvet Revolver . It sure looked like she was in her dad's home studio. I don't like the industry at all but Frontline sure didn't do anything to dress it up that's fer sure! I like stv's analogy that it's a dinosaur and it's dying under it's own weight and bad habits. It left me hopeful that the change to direct sales and the people who make the music get the money is REALLY what's killing the fat cats, not downloading. I didn't belive it anyway. Years ago a friend in the computer biz said, when asked about pirating, that Microsoft had an internal memo that said without it they never would have become as big. First you have to be known and that's the truth.
[QUOTE]

Well... there were some oddities for me in that story too...

Even with her dad's experience, that is, the money is in the writing and publishing and the punishment is in the performance part of the industry, she wanted "to make it" in the big industry and was shopping for songs from all those great writers, which will definitely cost her and put her in the clutches of the label/publisher conglomerates.

Tho, we don't know how many of -her- songs, other than the "hit," the first release, will be on it.

The critical thing for me, is the artist's aspirations, the context. If one wants to "make it big" that includes a whole bunch of non-musical goals. If the artist's criteria for "success" are more musical, then they can bend the business to serve that.

I'm prob'y preaching to the choir here... <GGG>

stv

[TonyP.]

stv I don't know what choir your preaching to but I for one I appreciate your insights and the behind the scenes the "fluff" afforded. Having never been behind the "curtain" I can only go by those that have. From what Crosby seemed to say and the unsaid stuff was there was no way NOT to sell your soul if you want to be in the industry. I felt like that was what her dad was trying to shield her from and that she'd only partially sold her soul. The connection for me seemed that because she didn't sell all her soul she didn't make "it". The aspect that the good part is writing and producing, and the bad part is the performer never occurred to me. It seemed like her dad was kinda bitter he wasn't a "real" performer. It just looked to me like they are all chained together in this weird dance that's strangely fascinating like watching a train wreck.

"If the artist's criteria for "success" are more musical, then they can bend the business to serve that."

Do you have any examples?