Old (1984) kentucky km-1000 - made by sumi?

[Kirk Pickering]

I have an old Kentucky KM-1000, dated 1984.
The Saga label reads " '84. 9. 37.' "
I bought it from someone who bought it from
Curtis McPeake about 10 or 15 years ago. I've
owned the mandolin about 6 years.

I read somewhere (now I can't find the reference)
that the KM-1000 and KM-1500 mandolins of this
vintage were made by Eiichi Sumi. Can anyone
confirm or deny this? Is there any way I can
tell for sure? There is no signature on the
mandolin, but it did have a "Made in Japan"
sticker on the back of the headstock.

Thanks for any info.

[45ACP-GDLF5]

Hey K4RO! You're right, in that the KM-1000's, 1500's, and the KM-DAWG models from the late 70's through the late 80's were all built by Sumi. I have a 1980 KM-1000 built by Sumi. What puzzles me is your serial number. Simply because the year that each mando was built, was not put into the serial number. My serial number is 206 09 and it was built in July of 1980. I know for a fact that all the serial numbers throughout the 80's were in this fashion. 3 numbers, a space, then 2 more numbers. I'm not doubting you, even though it sounds like it, I'm just kinda puzzled by the serial number. If you do the math, subtract 6 years since you've owned it, then another 15 from that, it puts it at 1986. So I'm sure the date is correct. Maybe Saga changed their numbering when yours was built. I don't know about that. Saga has changed a LOT since the 80's!

Regardless, you definitely have a Sumi built KM-1000!!! Hang on to it!!! Mine was 7 years old when I bought it in 1987, and I've been offered 3k for it and turned it down. So, you have an excellent mandolin there!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kirk Pickering]

Thanks for the info! Here is an image of the label.
(I hope this works... I'm a newbie here...)

http://www.pegramjam.com/pix/km1000/MVC-008F.JPG

p.s. How do I put my URL in my signature so it's click-able?
I tried adding the typical "A HREF" code, but that didn't work.

[fstylemb1]

Hey guys,
I'll check with Scott Zimmerman who works closely with Sumi san in Japan. They will be coming over for the IBMA and actually be staying with us before heading down to Nashville. Sumi crafts an excellent mandolin. I'm a proud owner of the F5 Dlx and a Sumi-Dawg. He will have some mandolins in tow when they arrive. e-mail me off list and I'll add you to the list of Sumi owners on the MYSPACE page I created for Sumi. E-mail me a pic too!

[bradeinhorn]

you have to add http:// - but your site doesn't seem to be up anyway.-b

[Kirk Pickering]

you have to add http:// - but your site doesn't seem to be up anyway.-b
Whoops, forgot I had to shut down the web server
for a minute. Man, you guys are quick! Let me
see if this works.

[45ACP-GDLF5]

Just adding to the discussion about older Kentuckys. #I have a KM-1500 purchased in 1981 from the 5th String when they were on Scott St. next to Paul's Saloon in SF. I believe the serial number is 205-12(don't have it w/ me). #Could this also be a product of Sumi? #Just wondering. Thanks!
Your KM-1500 is most definitely a product of Sumi! The 1500's were the top of the line production model back then. The KM-DAWG had the highest price tag, but it was a limited production run. The 1000's and 1500's were regular production models. You've got a good one there!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[garcbo]

Thank you 45ACP-GDLF5 for your response. Now the next thing I'd like to know is if I were to have some work done on it(KM-1500), let's say like, radius the fingerboard & maybe take some off the bracing to enhance sound, would it still be worth something? I've had it refretted only once by Michael Lewis and he did a fine job. My feeling is that it can be made to sound better, possibly louder. Long ago, I remember someone telling me Walden Dahl used to do such work.

[45ACP-GDLF5]

Thank you 45ACP-GDLF5 for your response. #Now the next thing I'd like to know is if I were to have some work done on it(KM-1500), let's say like, radius the fingerboard & maybe take some off the bracing to enhance sound, would it still be worth something? #I've had it refretted only once by Michael Lewis and he did a fine job. #My feeling is that it can be made to sound better, possibly louder. #Long ago, I remember someone telling me Walden Dahl used to do such work.
Shaving the braces and radiusing the fingerboard will not lessen the value of your mando. It may even increase the value if you ever decide to sell. The only negative aspect of these older Kentucky's, was that when they were sprayed with the lacquer, they sprayed a LOT of lacquer which gave them a real thick finish which cracks a lot easier over time. I've toyed with the idea of having the top re-finished, but it's just a thought right now.

I'm not familiar with Walden Dahl, but I am familiar with Randy Wood, who could do this work in a top-notch fashion.

[Desert Rose]

Im on the phone RIGHT now with Sumi and asking him these questions

He is counting his fingers and toes to figure out dates http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Kentucky Maruko craft shop opperated from 1980 and from the beginning was a team lead by the famous Tahara san. Sumi was the first member and from the beginning his abilities made him a lead member.

The team broke up in 1987 and Sumi assumed ownership of the shop and sole luthier status.

He built Kentuckys solo from 1987 until late 1992 early 1993

Some but not all Sumi solo mandolins are signed some are not

And as far as the serial numbers go NOBODY understands them as the style changed a few times during the project and they are not ever ment as a customer way to date an instrument anyway

Hope this helps

Sumi says Hi to everybody and would love to meet old Kentucky owners at ibma in a few weeks

Scott

[Dusty]

I'll bet this mandolin is the one I traded to Curtis for a new 93F5L. I bought the mandolin from Elderly in the late eighties or early ninety's. I think I still have the original catalogue listing from Elderly. I have wondered where the mandolin ended up and remember it to have really been a good instrument. Glad to hear it is still going strong.

[GTison]

THANKS DESERT ROSE for inserting some FACTS into this thread. #My KM1000 is # 212-09 PURCHASED in '84. # I don't know exactly when it was made though. I believe it hung new in the store a while before I bought it. #I think mine is going on the selling block soon after all these years. #I kinda hate to do it.

[Monrovia]

My KM1000 is # 212-09 PURCHASED in '84. I don't know exactly when it was made though. I believe it hung new in the store a while before I bought it.
I like the looks and sound of this Kentucky KM-1000 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270209780717) that's for sale. To add to the serial number mystery, it says that it's a 1988 with a serial number that begins with 206. I used to have an 80's KM-250, and I lusted after the master models at the time!

[Monrovia]

I like the looks and sound of this Kentucky KM-1000 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270209780717) that's for sale. To add to the serial number mystery, it says that it's a 1988 with a serial number that begins with 206.
Hey, he even has a Youtube name that's almost the same as mine. I think I tried for "Monroevia" here, but it was taken. Oh well, the capital of Liberia is cool too...

[Monrovia]

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Kentucky-KM-800-mandolin-Sumi-era-Japan-near-mint_W0QQitemZ160205626924QQihZ006QQcategoryZ

10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">This one</a> looks interesting too, although it's my understanding that the KM-800 wasn't actually made in Sumi's shop. Anyone have any experience with these? And how do they compare to the 21st century versions?

[Aehle]

I have two 1984 Kentucky's both were examined by Sumi at 2007 IBMA.
KM-1000 Mandolin Serial Number: 84.9.34
KH-1300 Mandola Serial Number: 84.11.42

Maybe we should start a Kentucky mandolin serial number list?

[jjboone101]

that nice '88 Kentucky KM-1000 went for $1825 on eBay a few days ago. Just missed it....

[cooper4205]

I have two 1984 Kentucky's both were examined by Sumi at 2007 IBMA.
KM-1000 Mandolin Serial Number: 84.9.34
KH-1300 Mandola Serial Number: 84.11.42

Maybe we should start a Kentucky mandolin serial number list?
you couldn't post some pics could ya? especially of the KH-1300

[MML]

KM DAWG owner here sn# 84.2.27

[Aehle]

Here is what I gather from all the reading, discussion and my experience about serial the serial numbers:
No one is clear about the serial numbers from the 80's KY including both Sumi and Scott Zimmerman. I do believe that there are two configurations of the serial numbers. One seems to be just numerical order with all Kentucky mandolins, the other incorporates the year.month.number, for example 84.9.34 (1984. September. 34th instrument of that month). The first number seems to be the year, for obvious reasons. I believe the middle number is the month because I have not seen a higher number than 12. The third number might be the number of the instrument built that month in the Maruko shop.

Again this is just my guess...

I do think if we started a running list of numbers, we might make more sense of this.

[ziderdrinker]

I live in the UK and own a KM 1500. I bought it from a reputable dealer in the USA a few months ago. It has been re-topped by Ron Cole using Adirondack I believe. I was sent the original top also which had caved in and been repaired at some time. The instrument has an aged look to it, with what appear to be real MOP tuner buttons, and a great fern inlay. Mine has Banjo size fret wire also, much varnish over the binding and looks the business.It has a very good bluegrass sound, and is LOUD. I had to have the bridge reset when I got it, but that's about it. Got a lot of character I'd say. I've not seen a Sumi branded mando here in the UK, nor any high end Kentucky to compare it with, but would be interested in what others think of the action, sound finish etc. on their Sumi/ Kentucky (Sumi) mandos.

My serial number is 211 30 which conforms to the non-date numbering scheme.

Would others be interested in contributing to a Wiki if I were to set one up. There is a small amount of info on Sumi mandolins, but you have to search for it! We could do something about this.

Steve Mooney http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

[Aehle]

I have two 1984 Kentucky's both were examined by Sumi at 2007 IBMA.
KM-1000 Mandolin Serial Number: 84.9.34
KH-1300 Mandola Serial Number: 84.11.42

Maybe we should start a Kentucky mandolin serial number list?
you couldn't post some pics could ya? especially of the KH-1300
I posted a photo of a pair of 84 Kentucky's.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....l=aehle (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=31793;hl=aehle)

[KeithDudding]

Can I get someone's opinion on the used KM-800 on Ebay? It's item number: 160211945536

While it's not the first Sumi KM-1000 (also on Ebay), it's not $3800 either. #It appears to be in good condition. #Assuming reasonable playability and tone, it appears to be appropriately priced. #Is this a value, or am I hopelessly naieve? #Is there a better F available for $1000? #Advice sought.

[MikeEdgerton]

Your link isn't valid. can you post the item number?

[Eric F.]

I would not buy a used 800 without playing it first. If you have to have an F, you can get a new Eastman 515, or a KM-855 or KM-805 for that much from a dealer and send it back if need be. Of course, if you just want a good mandolin, you could get a better A for the money.

[jefflester]

Can I get someone's opinion on this &lt;a href="http://" target="_blank"&gt;used KM-800 on Ebay&lt;/a&gt;?
Valid link (http://cgi.ebay.com/Kentucky-KM-800-mandolin-Sumi-era-Japan-near-mint_W0QQitemZ160211945536)

[GTison]

I've seen a few of these. They are not all great or even good by todays standards. Better mandolins are being produced by Eastman for a similar price.

I've got an old km1000 and the lesser models to my ear don't measure up. Heck not all KM1000 are the stuff. I'd rather play it first or purchase an Eastman. That's my Opinion.

[KeithDudding]

Seems to be some Eastman-love on the list. #I've only played a couple, but I wasn't overly impressed. #They seemed adequate, a notch better than MMs and MKs, but not significantly better. #Peraps I've not played the right Eastmans, or perhaps I'm not a good judge of mandolins (I allow as how that's possible). #I've heard good things about Japanese Kentuckys from the '80s -- not just the Sumi's, but the whole run. #I would expect them to be better than today's Eastmans. #Oh well ... looks like I can keep my money and keep looking for a better F.

[Joe Singleton]

Hi- The KM-800 is my mandolin. I had 17 watchers and no takers. I see that Bowfinger didn't help my cause, but I understand not wanting to buy sight unsceen. The mandolin is in rediculously fine condition. It looks like new. It sounds good, but not overly powerful in the low end. The Eastman's of comparable price do not sound better in my opinion. The 915 on average should sound better, and for twice the price I would hope so. The fingerboard on this is staight as can be and it plays easily all the way up the neck. #The Japanese mandolins were very well made, it is widely known that a production shop made these models with oversight from the masters. I realize Sumi did not hand build this one, but they had a great smaller shop by todays standards. Let me know if you are interested in making an offer. I would like to move it, but I don't want to give it away. Thanks for reading my 2 cents worth.-Joe

[MikeEdgerton]

Why not put it in the classifieds here?

[Joe Singleton]

O.K.