Dancing at bluegrass festivals

[Ted Lehmann]

I've just posted a piece on my blog about Dancing at Bluegrass Festivals. I've written in the past about how others' dancing has disrupted our enjoyment of the festival experience. This piece offers a reappraisal of my earlier position as well as trying to sugest a reasonable middle ground. - Ted
Ted Lehmann's Bluegrass, Books, and Brainstorms (http://www.tedlehmann.blogspot.com)

[entau]

I think I heard from one Cajun band the difference between playing in the North and the South is

in the north - the people are polite and quiet and sit and listen to the music

in the south - the chairs are thrown in a heap and everyone dances all night

I guess if a band is playing dance music - one would expect people to dance to it

is bluegrass dance music - I believe it is .

[Paul Kotapish]

Interesting think piece, Ted.

The conflict between enthusiastic dancers and seated listeners has been an issue for the 35 years I have been attending bluegrass shows--probably longer. Most hard-core fans seem to fall into the latter category, while a lot of enthusiastic-but-less-experienced newcomers often fall into the former.

Is bluegrass dance music? Scholars differ, but I think the consensus is that it is primarily listening music with a strong current of dance music woven into the fabric.

Monroe's genius was--in part--the melding of two distinct traditions in rural music--fiddle tunes and songs. While not all fiddle music is expressly for dancing, most of it is. The song tradition, however, was often performed unaccompanied or sparsely accompanied, and aside from certain play-party songs, for listening rather than for dancing.

Monroe began his career accompanying fiddlers for old-time square dances, and he is on record citing the importance of that vein in bluegrass music.

I saw Bill Monroe doing a buck-and-wing and simple clog on stage during performances of the Blue Grass Boys and off stage while listening to other bluegrass bands at a number of festivals and concerts over the years, so he certainly was not categorically opposed to dancing to bluegrass. On more than one occasion I saw him invite cloggers on stage to dance to a fiddle tune from the Boys, too.

I strongly doubt that he would have been too keen on anyone dancing during "Wicked Path of Sin" or "Little Girl and the Dreadful Snake," however.

I think the festivals that anticipate the dancers and provide "separate but equal" facilities for them have got it right. As long as the dancing isn't distracting the performers or the audience, what's the harm? And on the fiddle tunes and banjo breakdowns, dancing is an entirely appropriate response.

[mandopete]

Persoanlly, I love to see people dancing at bluegrass festivals, just not in front of me. Most people that like to dance will go off to the side or even the back of the performance area.

I say Let 'Em Dance!

[Mando Mark]

I love to see people dance at festivals, provided it does not interfere with others viewing and enjoyment. I attended the festival in Alta, WY and apparently it is okay for people to come and stand in front of the stage. Some danced, most drank and blocked my view. Needless to say I have only attended ONCE! At Grass Valley dancers went to the side or the back of the viewing area. That was great. However, there was an older gentleman who ammused himself by high speed skipping around the viewing area, including directly in front of the stage. Again, it bothered me and lot of other people. This guy was drawing attention away from the stage and the performance. We did not pay to watch you skip, we want to hear and SEE the bands on stage. To me it is all about being respectful of others.

[MikeEdgerton]

When people start dancing while I'm playing I feel like I've touched something inside them and I appreciate it. I'm sure that Bill Monroe didn't start out playing festivals, I imagine he started out playing dances.

Personally, I get a little annoyed at the wacko's that go crazy when someone next to them has a quiet conversation at a bluegrass festival. I will also note that I never sit up front at festivals, I always sit in the back. I'll leave the front for those intent on hearing the music uninterrupted by the likes of me.

Take a few hundred or thousand people and put them out in the middle of a field on their lawn chairs with their friends and I'm gonna guess that they will enjoy themselves one way or the other.

If you have a problem with people enjoying themselves my suggestion would be that you move. Life's too short to let this stuff bother you. YMMV.

[emitfo]

I have to stifle a laugh on this one! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Your dancing interferes w/my listening??? Not likely! It MIGHT interfere with your watching but last time I checked dancing--unless you're clogging in wooden shoes on a wooden floor is not really all that loud.

To give you an idea of how ludicrous it sounds to me, imagine a post that said:

YOUR LISTENING IS INTERFERING WITH MY DANCING

I've been inspired to dance to music occasionally though I'm definitely not a dancer! And you suggest I should put a damper on it because you want to watch?!?!?! What is this BTV? (That's Bluegrass TV) Music is to be LISTENED to and DANCED to, watching music comes in a DISTANT 3rd!

I don't mean to offend but I had to read the post 3 times to make sure it wasn't a joke!

[entau]

I understand the issue with folks "blocking the view" or in the case of young women in summer clothes " distracting" from the performance on stage...
( what? there was a band on stage.....)

however - I do know -when performing on stage - it feels a lot better when the audience gets more involved - than when they just sit and stare.

perhaps "wicked path of sin " is not a dance tune
and I would expect dancers to calm down and take a break during tunes like this- (but the young girls in summer clothes can do as they please)

but "kentucky waltz" most certainly is dance music-and most scotch irish tunes that appalachian music is influenced by is - dance music.

realizing the importance of "dance-ability" esspecially in and outdoor venue - festival organizers should set aside
dance areas - as most do.
as far as wild crowds gathering at the stage -
I think that is what most performers are hoping for .

[Skanderbeg]

I personally don't find Bluegrass festivals to be great venues for listening to music. For that purpose I limit my listening pleasure to CD's, concerts in formal settings (concert halls, etc) and small and intimate clubs and house concerts. Don't get me wrong, I like Bluegrass festivals for people watching, meeting others, jamming, eating and drinking and having nice background music, but I personally find it impossible to seriously concentrate on the performances. You just have to pick your spots depending on your mood.

[JeffD]

I have to stifle a laugh on this one! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Your dancing interferes w/my listening??? #Not likely! #It MIGHT interfere with your watching but last time I checked dancing--unless you're clogging in wooden shoes on a wooden floor is not really all that loud. #
With all do respect, you are getting somewhat rhetorical. When you see a large group of people who have brought chairs to sit on, common sense should indicate that they are not there to dance, and that dancing that blocks their view of the stage will distrupt their enjoyment of the performance.

Regardless of the words they use we should all try to minimize the amount we disrupt each other's enjoyment.

[allenhopkins]

Do make a bit of distinction between those who dance because they're moved by the music, and those who dance because they want to be "part of the show." The latter sometimes do everything but get up on stage with the band. They can be the visual equivalent of the "volunteer musician" who pulls out a pair of spoons and thinks he's making a contribution.

I love it when people get up and dance when I play; this can happen when I'm strumming a ukulele at a senior center, or when I'm playing a Jewish event with Love & Knishes. But I note that, as mentioned above, the well-prepared organizers usually have an area where people can dance without interfering with others' sightlines.

[Brady Smith]

I sit front and center at every show I go to or I don't go. They don't bother me but I could see where it could become a major annoyance.

[JeffD]

To shave the ice even finer, dance is not always dance. Clogging, square dance, et al. are all part of the tradition. Cloggers, like mandolinists, are participating in the tradition.

The free form dance more appropriate to Greatful Dead concerts kind of bothers me.

Now don't get me wrong. I would NEVER say that just because something bothers me it should be curtailed. [Please keep this in mind in your responses.]

But the free form dance seems to me is disrespectful of the whole musical tradition. I would think it would be kind of insulting to the musicians, (unless they were trying to emulate the Greatful Dead). It says to the musicians "hey, just keep somewhat rythmic noises at a fast tempo so we can gyrate. We aren't really listening anyway, and we don't care how you sound, but it moves us to dance so keep it up, what ever it is."

If I could get people to dance by chopping across muffled mandolin strings, I wouldn't struggle so much to get the chords right. I aspire to more than just getting the audience to dance randomly.

OK, I expect to get a lot of you folks riled up, so bring it on [respectfully of course.]

[micall5]

Being one of the "Dancers" at festivals, I am amazed at how many people can just sit there sometimes. But I understand that is their choice and what they enjoy.
Personally, I feel like I would be grinding my teeth the whole time without getting up and shaking something. The music takes over and gets me going... I don't have a choice at that point. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yes, I believe that bluegrass is definitely dancing music.

[Keith Erickson]

I've been to a couple of festivals and didn't seem to be bothered by dancing. As a matter of fact, I went to a wine festival up in New Mexico and they even encouraged people to dance in front of the stage while a jazz band was playing. No Harm there...

However a couple of years ago at Bluegrass in the Desert up in Radium Springs, New Mexico, these two rocket scientists decided that they would drive their motorcycles right in front of the stage while the band was in the middle of a song.

Needless to say we all looked like this-----> http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[garyblanchard]

While I sympathize with the issue of people blocking your sightline, I fall more in the "let them dance" camp. I love when people get up and dance when I perform, whether I'm doing 1930's uke tunes, old-time traditional, or 60's-style rock and roll music. As to the "free-form" dance that was associated here with the Grateful Dead (my musical heroes, by the way), the way I see it is that people might want to move but don't know how to do it in "formal" fashion. I'd rather see them move as they feel than to have them sitting and feeling frustrated.

I have been to many "festival seating" shows of various types of music. To me, the fact that people are likely to be standing or dancing in front of me is a given with the setting so I keep my expectations set accordingly. Maybe rather than a dancer's section, there should be a listener's section. I guess it depends on one's outlook. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Mattg]

I was recently at the Four Corners Music fest in southern Colorado. The fest was about 75% bluegrass and the balance being Celtic or folk rock. It is more BG than Telluride.

Anyway, being Southern Colorado, it was very hippy. Lot's of twirly girls and paunchy middle age guys with grey beards and tie die (oops, that's me) hopping around. There was lot's of dancing espcially with Nickle Creek and the Subdudes. It was all off to the side's where there was plenty of room. There was a big space between the seats and the tarps on the hill where folks could have stood or danced to block the view from the tarps but they didn't. There were alot of signs up telling folks not to stand there. I guess everyone decided to obey the signs.

[lgc]

"But the free form dance seems to me is disrespectful of the whole musical tradition."

Well if free form dance seems disrespectful to the whole tradition, what about the free form jamgrass that has songs lasting for 15 minutes-with nary a melody note to be found-that dominate most major festivals. Most free form dancing seems to happen when bands like Sam Bush, Nickle Creek and Psycho Grass are playingn not James King and Dry Branch.

[pjlama]

When you're perfoming it's much more preferable to have people up dancing, it is part of the show, the only part that matters is that EVERYONE's enjoying the music and participating in the experience. I played lots of jazz gigs, rock gigs, BG gigs, etc. I love playing jazz but it's much more fun to play a genre where the audience is getting down and having fun, IMHO. BTW when not playing the next best thing is dancing, try it you might have fun.

[sgarrity]

I've never consumed enough alcohol at a bluegrass event to get me anywhere close to feelin' the need to dance! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[allenhopkins]

So this guy hires two hoboes to split wood, in exchange for supper and a roof to sleep under. Half an hour later he goes out to the woodpile to see how they're doing. He finds one of them watching the other do an amazing series of ballet leaps, twirls and fancy footwork. "Say," he says, "I didn't know your partner was a dancer."

"Neither did I," says the other hobo, "'til I cracked his shin with this axe..."

[cwtwang]

I think there is usually enough room at bluegrass festivals for both dancers and those who are seated but it would be really nice if there was a common code of ethics for the dancers to not dance in front of those seated. An understood and followed ethic such as using someone else's festival chair but when the owner comes back, the borrower smiles and leaves.

Trouble is, many (I did NOT say ALL) of the dancers, are neo-hippies that are high on drugs/alcohol and some of them don't care if they are blocking the view.

A few years ago, I was at Suwannee Springfest and these really gentle but high neo-hippies were dancing in front of these very upper middle-class ladies (one was wearing a short-sleeve cashmere sweater and pearls) and it was really a clash of culture! David Grisman and Tony Rice were on stage and these two ladies were really aggravated that they could not see them. I wish I had THAT on film to put up on You Tube because it was hilarious!

At the same festival, this big (VERY big) guy picked a fight with me because he could not see by me. Now, I am short and little and his problem was that he was sitting in a hole. He was drunk and 300 lbs. (I know because he told me he was a 300 lb. man and could not see by me). He was pretty drunk and so was his wife and I really thought he was going to attack me. He said I was bopping my head all over the place--well, no, I was actually very still and my friends told me I was. The neo-hippies were hopping around and screaming behind him, he was aggravated and just chose someone little to pick on.

I finally had enough so I turned around and told him that if he did not find his manners right quick, that I would get security. He backed off. Now HE was far worse than the dancers. If I had been with a man there, he would have NEVER DARED to have said boo, but I was with a few lady friends and he decided to be a bully http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

That said, most of my festival experiences have been very pleasant. There are so many different cultures at bluegrass festivals: everyone from neo-hippies to doctors and judges. I think that is WAY cool!!

Cheryl

[JeffD]

the way I see it is that people might want to move but don't know how to do it in "formal" fashion.
Swing dancing, waltzing, contra-dancing, square dancing, clogging, Irish and Scottish traditional dancing, jitterbug, tap, soft shoe, charleston, its all good. Real good. And I guess if the band is jamming and grooving without a discernable style, I can't complain about free form dancing.

But it just seems to me that if and when it is not acceptable to play just any old note, it is kind of disrespectful to dance just any old dance.

I know too many really good dancers, dated many actually, who have, like we mandolinists, spent many hours learning and practicing #both social and formal dance styles, and while we would never say "do what ever you want" at a jam session, its somehow OK to do what ever you want when dancing.

If someone picked up a mandolin, for example, and because he didn't know how to play in a formal fashion, just strummed randomly, without tuning up, or just thumped on the back side - it would bother me. I wouldn't stop him certainly, but I also would not equate what he was doing with playing the mandolin.

Believe me, I am also of the let them dance frame of mind, I don't want to prevent people from having harmless fun, even if it bothers me.

Just my take on it.

[Gutbucket]

Merlefest does a great job of providing a fenced off dance area in an out of the way location near the stage. The dancers are happy, and the listeners can enjoy the stage without any problems. It seems to work well. Other festivals should try it.

[JEStanek]

The Philly Folk Fest is nicely set up with a huge dance tent and the main stage is on a hillside with low chair seating and a formal seated section in front of the main stage. People do the neo hippe dance stuff in the back and I'm not bothered. The guy with the egg shaker only really perturbs me if he's really lacking rhythmically. I feel it's incumbent on the venue to provide space for dancers (even the neo-hippies - lord knows I can't dance) and space for unimpeded views.

Dance, then, wherever you may be....

Jamie

[MikeEdgerton]

To judge someone's free form dancing is akin, in my book to judging someone's free form mandolin break. If David Grisman gets up and does something totally off the wall it's art, but if some neo hippie, whatever that heck that is, gets up and moves to the music it's disrespectful? To whom? Just about every performing musician that has posted here has said that they enjoy it when people get up and dance when they play. If you apply the same logic then every mandolin player that doesn't adhere to "Monroe Style" playing is being disrespectful as well, right? I would hold dancers to the same standards I hold people that stand and watch performances. If you stand in front of someone that's already seated, that's rude. If you dance in front of someone that's already seated, that's rude. If you sit down behind a group of people that are dancing or standing already and then complain you're rude. To simply dismiss the dance because it doesn't meet your standards of what a dance is is pretty lame actually. Would it be ok if they were doing the samba? Would that fit the genre of music? You might need a serious dose of lighten up here.

[MikeEdgerton]

If I had been with a man there, he would have NEVER DARED to have said boo, but I was with a few lady friends and he decided to be a bully
Cheryl, let me apologize for those members of my gender that seem to think this is acceptable, it isn't.

[dmamlep]

Well here in Kentucky lots of the festivals I play or attend have areas where dancing takes place, I see this one guy at most of the festivals and he is applauded when he dances. you might have seen him, bibs long beard and hat. dont keep me from hearing the music lol or trying to catch that mando break, always trying to learn also.

[garyblanchard]

You can't assume that all the free-form, neo-hippie dancers are drunk and/or high. I am one of those free-form dancers. I can't qualify as neo-hippie as I was one of the original tribe. I make my living as an addictions counselor and am substance free. You'll still find me with my lovely wife, free-form dancing up near the stage, or in the back, or on the side, just being high on the music, which is the best high ever - low cost and hangover free. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[DryBones]

I think there is middle ground for dancers and viewers at festivals. I went to Graves Mountain this year to watch/listen and learn. They had the front area shut off so no one could walk or dance through in front of the stage and obstruct any views. They also made it a point to acknowledge the dancers who were there dancing on the side and back and everybody got along just fine. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[hedding]

this is a funny thread........why someone would get so upset over dancers is absolutely beyond me but I may never understand. If you can't see, stand up too. Just my opinion. Chairs only encourage people to not leave their seats and share the good "viewing" areas with everyone.

[MikeEdgerton]

I can't qualify as neo-hippie as I was one of the original tribe.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Me too.

[JeffD]

To judge someone's free form dancing is akin, in my book to judging someone's free form mandolin break. If David Grisman gets up and does something totally off the wall it's art, but if some neo hippie, whatever that heck that is, gets up and moves to the music it's disrespectful?
I think you misunderstand. If there were an interpretive dance jam, it would be totally appropriate. And your analogy would be spot on. And if Grisman or someone goes off for a spell, I would have to to say that free form dance is a good response.


But just like free form (formless) dancing would not be appropriate at an outdoor tango concert for example. Of coursze it shouldn't be stopped, but it does seem to lack a certain respect for the actual music being played. And I would think the tango musicians would be somewhat bothered that the folks, though enjoying the show, were making no attempt to understand or appreciate the music in its tradition. Well bluegrass is a distinctive style and tradition and has a long and venerated history as well, and free form dancing seems equally out of place I would think.

Would they not dance the same way if it were blues, or rock, or The Greatful Dead, or a drum circle?

Perhaps I am a bit too much on this, I dunno. Because you are right, the gigging musicians on here do not seem to be worried about this.

Or maybe it is my impending old farthood.

[MikeEdgerton]

Would they not dance the same way if it were blues, or rock, or The Greatful Dead, or a drum circle?

Perhaps I am a bit too much on this, I dunno. Because you are right, the gigging musicians on here do not seem to be worried about this.

Or maybe it is my impending old farthood.
1. Yes and there would be nothing wrong with it.

2. That is correct.

3. Jeff, I am an old #### and I don't have a problem with it, you can't blame age.

Again, when you apply the common sense rules of not blocking someone's view that was there before you, or someone not sitting down behind the already standing group of dancers there shouldn't be a problem that anyone has. If dancing in it self is offensive (and it is in certain religious circles) then one simply has to avoid the dancing.

My suggestion for anyone that is annoyed by the dancers is that they get up, grab their mandolin and find a group of pickers in the parking lot or campground and just enjoy themselves. Bluegrass festivals are certainly not single activity events. There’s something for just about everyone and that’s really a good thing.

[ira]

interesting thread-and interesting note by jeffd (btw- i respect your ability to say that you don't like it, offer reasons, but still feel comfortable to say- let folks do what they wish)-
[bluegrass is a distinctive style and tradition and has a long and venerated history as well, and free form dancing seems equally out of place I would think.]

actually bg is a relatively new form of music- created primarily within the second 1/2 of the 20th century. it was a spinoff of a few other genres- country, blues, etc...
but for some reason some folks get really bent out of shape about "tradition"- don't all musical genre - including bluegrass have many spinoffs and interpretations.
dance- whether you like the style or not, is just someone's movement during a song, so unless it is a competition- don't be concerned about a dancer matching the music in some way.

though i am a periodic- "freeform dancer" who yes- attended many dead shows- not sure as i'm in my 40s if i am a "neohippie"(thats a new one for me)., i do believe that as in all things- general respect goes a long way. just cause i bring a chair doesn't mean i wont want to dance to a tune.-i need to think about the type of show/festival- where to set up, etc... and if the section i wind up in at the fest ends up being a primarily sit down and listen crowd-=i can always move or at least go to the side to dance before heading back to my chair. the beauty of modern amplification is - i'll still hear the music.
anyway- just my 25 cents.

[entau]

Oh no - there it is -that "H" word again ..

we are surely getting into troubled waters now

mmm - is there such a thing as "neo left coast hippy dippy jazz dancing " ? and are people offended if they or others are accused of it ?

mea culpa

we have surely entered into a new era -

so I think where this has come around to is

square dancing, clogging , disco, ballroom, tango, line dancing, and irish step dancing are permited and acceptable if such activites are performed in a "roped off" area that in no way obscures the view of the stage.

but NO HIPPIE DANCING - ( they are probably high on something and capable of god knows what unspeakable acts against civilized humanity- oh could you pour me another scotch please- while I check my haliburton stock)

what would the graphic be ? a person shape ( barefoot with dread locks?) - tie-die colored with a line though it ?

[mandopete]

...but NO HIPPIE DANCING...
We call it "spaghetti dancing" around here and I sort of dig it (eventhough I've never "spaghetti'ed" myself).

C'mon bluegrassers, lighten up!

[cwtwang]

Hey, now I know the official term for the only type of "dancing" that I can remotely do, "Spaghetti" dancing.

And it is obvious that people use chairs at festivals because most people cannot stand for a very long time, especially those who are older and have health problems. Also, sitting down is one of the great "controllers" of concerts. Seating establishes a "personal space" and concerts are often less prone to shoving and accidents with a seated audience. Also, stand-up concerts are really hard on short people who cannot see.

As far as standing up to see over the dancers, if I stand up to see with others dancing in front of me, I am still shorter than most of the dancers http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I guess, bottom line, good manners are getting pretty rare these days. Save for certain circles and individuals, I think that manners will, sadly, in the near future, be a thing of the past. Bad manners seem to be everywhere now, even at the grocery store which, in my area, used to be a place where it seemed taboo to have bad manners.

Cheryl

[AlanN]

I will 'duck down' if I go to the front of a show to grab a seat, it's the Scout Way!

[Peter Hackman]

Thomas Haglund (who toured and recorded with Jimmy Martin in the late 70's)
once told me of a Monroe festival where Monroe had to tell people to at least not dance during the gospel concert.

[MikeEdgerton]

That old time religion. Decorum has its place.

[bobby bill]

Yes, the problem is not dancers but dancers in front of the stage. They fall into two types: (1) the person who uses dancing as an excuse to get in front of the serious fan who got there early, and (2) the exhibitionist who wants you to watch them because they believe that the thoughtful undulation of their wrist in the air is every bit as significant as the music being played. Neither motive deserves accomodation.

Merlefest, as noted, does a great job. The Kerrville Folk Festival was also superb in this regard. My favorite "enforcer" was an aging and colorful festival volunteer who, when a dancer strayed, would start dancing with that person and through his dance would gently lead the dancer out of the zone of interference. It was a beautiful sight and avoided all the conflict associated with this problem.

So - dance, dance, dance. Just don't do it in front of me. There are other things besides noise that interfere with listening.

[Dave Gumbart]

Anyone here, in response to a live performace (be it a song, or a whole concert) ever thought or said "the music moved me"? That might mean it lifted your spirits, made you think, had you clap harder than usual, or maybe it actually did move you - physically.

I think everyone agrees there's some level of manners that should be respected when dancing at a festival, but if the music being played creates a reponse that stimulates dance - well, that's some pretty good music, I would think.

And is not all dance a form of expression? I'm not much of a dancer, but it's a great release to get the body moving - yeah, I am more along the lines of the free-form dancer. Have you ever "free-formed" along to a beat produced by the musicians along with, say, 100,000 other people at the same time (Dead, Philly, JKF)? That may be no part of nothin' in a formal sense, but I dare say that collective movement transcends dance.

Anyway, music's ability to bring about a desire to dance is pretty impressive, regardless of the type of music being played. How that is physically expressed can (and sometimes should absolutely) be structured, but just letting loose has it's place, too. No one has to like that or want to see it, but if the person(s) is not in your way, seems like being tolerant is a fair compromise.

[JeffD]

This is a great thread.

My bottom line as always is if your not dancing in front of me blocking my view, I am not going to have a problem. Good manners should be the rule.

But two comments here kind of resonanted - "the exhibitionist who wants you to watch them because they believe that the thoughtful undulation of their wrist in the air is every bit as significant as the music being played" - that catches the essence of what bothers me. Again, if its out of my direct vision I live and let live, but it bothers me a bit I must say.

And then "And is not all dance a form of expression?" which of course is true. But I paid money to see the musicians express themselves, not anyone else, and especially not dancing that emulates an ether binge.

[Dave Gumbart]

Jeff said "Good manners should be the rule..." and he doesn't want to see "dancing that emulates an ether binge."

Agreed.

For me personally, if the music, locale and crowd are "right", and I'm moved to dance, that's a good thing, because that means I'm relaxed and enjoying myself and the company of others.

[Jason Holmes]

Well said, JeffD.

It does seem like some folks feel they have every right to budge in front regardless of who got there early to be in the front, block those people's views, bump them repeatedly while dancing (or "dancing") in their vicinity and/or in front of the performer(s), and then not be able to figure out what all the fuss is about. That is a nuisance. I wouldn't tell anyone "don't dance" per se, but I might tell them "be courteous to those around you".

[croonerexpress]

I've just posted a piece on my blog about Dancing at Bluegrass Festivals. I've written in the past about how others' dancing has disrupted our enjoyment of the festival experience. This piece offers a reappraisal of my earlier position as well as trying to sugest a reasonable middle ground. - Ted
Ted Lehmann's Bluegrass, Books, and Brainstorms (http://www.tedlehmann.blogspot.com)
http://crystal.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/crybaby.jpg

[Jason Holmes]

Hey, that's the face that my wife makes when I play the mandolin. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[BlueMountain]

Ted, I didn't agree with your blog, but I enjoyed it. You're still a fine writer.

As long as I can see the mandolin player okay, I like it when people dance. Frankly, a lot of bluegrass musicians look a bit less than strikingly handsome (why don't more look like those Cherryholmes women?), and they aren't known for good taste in suits. I'd rather watch inebriated dancers, myself.

What would Bill say? The only time I saw Bill Monroe was in 1973 at the Rocky Mountain Bluegrass Festival, when I was a teenager. The only thing I remember about his set was that there were a bunch of hippy girls dancing in front of the stage. Monroe stopped the band right in the middle of a song. As best I can recollect, he said something like this: "You all stop dancing! Stop the dancing! This is a church song. It's not right to dance during church songs! I'm not going to play until you stop the dancing." Well, that worked about as well as a bucket of cold water on a pair of emotionally attached dogs. They stopped the dancing and slunk away.

What bothers me more than dancing, Ted, is when people decide to CLAP along with a song. Have you ever noticed that there are a lot of people unable to clap on an off beat? And then there are some very cool folks with a sort of hesitation beat--it comes in a fraction of a beat slow. Now I do NOT want to watch THOSE people dance.

We might also recall that quite a bit of Mozart's music was meant for dancing.

I loved your photos on your blog. I don't understand why dead people in lawn chairs are concerned about dancing. Maybe the dancers were dancing loud enough to wake the dead, but it didn't look like it.

[fredfrank]

Dancers have only been a problem to me at a couple of events.

One, at Grand Targhee, there are well over a hundred of 'em and the ground right in front of the stage is just dirt, so the cloud of dust is unbelievable.

I also attended a Ricky Scaggs concert where I was admonished for having a chair that was high enough to roll a basketball under, and I was asked by the staff to either sit on the ground, or move off to the side. Well I sat on the ground right up front, but when the dancing started, nothing was done about that, and so I was unable to see beyond the dancers.

I don't care if y'all want to dance, but do it off to the side or in back where you don't interfere with the listeners' enjoyment.