Power amp & mixer vs. Powered mixer

[mandosage]

Thanks for your input on systems, but now our club is stuck on the pros or cons of this topic. Any one have any input? Since the sound board will be about 60" from the stage we are considering this variable. Can there be a problem associated with cables overheating?

[mandofiddle]

I went with a separate mixer instead of a powered mixer for 1 main reason. #If something goes wrong with either my mixer, or power amp (or in my case powered mains) I only have to replace (or get repaired) one piece of equipment instead of the whole shebang. #I also found that with getting a separate mixer I had more options to get one that will do exactly what I want it to do without the price going through the roof. #Plus I can put an EQ and a compressor in the chain. #I'm not positive, but I would guess that you can't run a powered mixer into this type of equipment without frying them (though I could be wrong).

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

If you are going to be that far from the stage, use a component system. That way the amps can be close to the speakers to prevent (mechanical) damping. That's where the speaker cones have more difficulty functioning (returning) the further away from the power source they are. Larger sized cables help, but become impractical after a point. (Overheating is not an issue.) Check in a live sound manual, or on prosoundweb there's a good chart.
So go with the seperate components.
And Mandofiddle, you can use seperate components with a powered mixer.

[TonyP.]

I'm sorry but I feel like we don't have all the needed info. If I remember right you said you had an old system that was great for outdoors. What is it?Maker, model, what are the speakers, size etc. An older system that is in good condition that could carry an outdoor gig has more than enough umph for an indoor gig. It's way easier to turn down a big system than turn up a small system. It will have less reliability probs for one. Why not let the old system be the "power" and spend your money on a good mixer and a snake? Then you could really get far from the speakers. I agree with what the other guys have said I'm just always trying to find the cheapest way to do it and going out and buying all new gear it seems would put a damper on how much you can spend. You could even go this route at first and then buy the amp and speakers and outboard gear later on. Just a thought.

[GTison]

60" means 60 INCHES!

SO which is it feet or inches? If it's feet and one gig I think I would rent the equipment. Check into it many folks who sell the stuff will rent it, or maybe even loan it for a tryout. I like the idea of mixer and amps etc. but everything we've played so far the powered mixer has been enough. But we haven't had to run sound for a fest. or other groups with more people than we had inputs. If you did have the components and you ran sound for others, then you could just rent one pc. say a larger mixer and still have your amp. or add an amp etc...

[Russ(String-Alley)]

One minor thing of note:
A good mixer will create more "headroom" when you use it with a good power amp versus a-all-in-one unit. however as of late those mackies have been impressing me when I have had the opportuinty to use them at a show. They are pretty powerful and clean. not a bad choice if you cant lug a rack and board.

cheers
Russ

[mandosage]

Sorry I wasn't more specific- 60'. Also, last week several of us went to the depot and hooked up the old system and checked out the equip. We found that all the mics work, that the 12 in/out snake has 5 dead in/out and that the powered mixer has 2 dead and 1 very weak channel. The powered mixer is peavey as well as the speakers. I did not check actual sizes but they appear to be 15" speakers with , I'm guessing, 16" horns. We discussed getting a separate power amp & mixer , but we are not sure of the actual configuration of the hook ups ( ie, mixer to power amp, to speakers. & how do you provide phantom power to condenser mic. would the set up be: mic-phantom power unit-snake-mixer-poweramp-speakers? We also are wanting to have some effects for voice enhancement and perhaps compression. I am thinking right now that I must sound like an idiot--- I'm just not up on all this technically. I'm a singer/musician/performer not an engineer.

[mandofiddle]

Most mixers will have a phantom power supply. If they don't, you can get a phantom power supply unit for pretty cheap. I bought a 4 channel one for around $50. Basically you chain would be... Mic/Instruments > DI (if necessary) > Mixer > Any inline equipment (such as EQ, Compressor, reverb unit, etc) > Power amp > Speakers. The part that is the trickiest is when you start adding the inline equipment and try to figure out which order to put it in...

[Mandomania]

"headroom"?

[TonyP.]

mandosage please don't worry about feeling inadequate, you'll get it. I learned about sound outa self defense. I've had to deal with so many "rock" oriented pa's and their jockys it made me. I don't care how good the band is, if the sound is bad, the band sounds bad and most times you are going to be the only one who can fix it. It just helps to know all the variables. If it were me I would fix the snake. It's probably just connections, if it is the wire(like it got run over and broke somewhere in the middle) then I would think about trashing it. I'm not a fan of powered speakers, just like I'm not a fan of powered mixers. If one part goes down the whole unit is dead. Also powered speakers have got to be heavy, and it's good to get them up with stands so they can cover your audience. This came up a while ago and I believe it was mandojeremy who said you could get an amp and speakers( he liked the Yamaha's, we have a smaller set and they are great) cheaper than a powered set. Your also going to have more power cords with the powered set up. I do like the sound of the Mackie's but they are very pricey. Did you take a look at the Behringer board that mandofiddle suggested, way nice for the bucks. I guess the next info is how much do you want to spend? Is there anybody in the club that can fix stuff?

[kvk]

Just out of curiousity (I haven't done sound reinforcement work in 20 years), can some expand "DI".

-Ken

[mandofiddle]

DI, or DI Box, basically the preamp between a mando pickup (or other acoustic instrument pickup) and the board. I think DI stands for Direct Input...?

[GVD]

NFI but these websites have a pretty good descriptions of DI boxes

Site 1 (http://homepage.eurobell.co.uk/orchid/questions.htm)

Site 2 (http://www.leonaudio.com.au/active.htm)

GVD