Rough cutting mando neck from neck block

[Darren Kern]

I'm moving along slowly but surely in my first from scratch builds... resolved my planing/joining problems, and am thinking about rough cutting a couple of necks from the blocks I have. I have a template from Stew-Mac's A style plans, and I am not sure which way I need to cut.

I would think the first pic is the way it should be cut, with the figure running across the neck. I'm not sure this block is tall enough though, with the template I have anyway. Opinions on this, plus general guidance on cutting out necks with a bandsaw, would be appreciated.

[Darren Kern]

Here's the top view of the neck block.

[sunburst]

You'll find differing opinions on this. I much prefer, and pretty much strictly do it like the first picture, so that the fingerboard is glued to the quartered surface of the wood, and the peghead is quartered. Things are more stable, that way, for the glue joints. There are those who prefer it the other way, and can state various reasons why they think that is a better way to do it.
In fact, the neck will work fine cut either way.
If you want it cut for the quartered surface to be the glue surface, you can change the peghead angle until it fits the blank. There's nothing magic about the specific peghead angle of your template, and the string break over angle at the nut is not critical as long as the strings will stay put in there slots.

As for sawing the blank out, the only advice I'd offer is placing the template toward one end or the other so that you end up with a bigger scrap. The bigger the pieces of wood in the scrap pile the more uses for which they are suitable.

[Stephanie Reiser]

What JOhn said pertaining to headstock angle.
For the last mando I finished this last spring, I used this blank (more like your 2nd pic .........

[Stephanie Reiser]

.......and it didn't have enough headstock angle room that my pattern dictated. I had to vary it a degree to end with this.
I agonized over grain orientation for a long time, and am still, like you, not sure which is best. I think John's advice is solid.

[Darren Kern]

Thanks John and Stephanie. I have been working on modifying the angle and I think I'll be able to make it work. Looks like according to this template, the Stew Mac peghead angle is around 20 degrees, maybe a little less. So a few degrees less than that is ok?

[Stephanie Reiser]

#Looks like according to this template, the Stew Mac peghead angle is around 20 degrees, maybe a little less. #So a few degrees less than that is ok?
I believe so. I try for 15 degrees.

[markishandsome]

I'd always heard 15.

[martinedwards]

A few degerrs won't make a huge diffrence.

steep enough to pull the strings down tight into the nut, but not so steep as to bind.

15 + 2 0r 3

[sunburst]

When I built my first instrument, I had learned that 15 degrees was the correct angle for the peghead so I started trying to figure out how to measure and cut a 15 degree angle. I was working part time at a community college, so I asked a math teacher there, and eventually came up with a system where I had a tapered piece of wood to run down the table saw fence with the neck blank clamped to it, and some improvised way to measure the angle with a protractor. It had to be 15 degrees, after all.

Then, I eventually went to work for a manufacturer and found out how they did it there. They have a template that they draw around, then they cut the blank out with the band saw, sawing outside the line, and mill the surfaces flat. I thought, "that's all? just saw on the line and mill the surfaces flat?".
Then I saw the guy who was cutting out the blanks lay the template on a blank that wasn't big enough for the peghead, much like your picture. I thought he'd reject the blank, but he just drew in the new peghead angle with a straight edge and kept working.

It only takes a few experiences like that to start one thinking about what is and what isn't important physically and design-wise. Basically, if it affects the sound, feel, and playability it's important. Otherwise, many things can be changed with no problems.

[Jim Hilburn]

That acute peghead angle is just one more example of things on the Stew-Mac (Don McRostie) print that just aren't very Loar like.

[Mario Proulx]

I agree with everyone on the angle issue.

That said, I prefer running my mandolin necks on the flat, IE, as it would be in the second photo. You'll get more visible figure(really; you spend 99% of the time looking at the side, not back, of the neck while you play, right?), and it has proven perfectly stable. Every Loar I've seen had a flat sawn neck, also, including Reischman's, which has fantastic figure in its neck.

Here is an example of a "flat sawn" neck. (http://www.proulxguitars.com/clients/mandolins/images/IMG_3387.jpg) Notice the figure... Feel free to use it as in your second photo.

[Darren Kern]

Ok cool, I think I can get 15 degrees or at least pretty close. I have another question- it looks to me like this neck template doesn't leave enough in the heel of the neck for the dovetail. The pics I've seen always have a neck heel that looks twice this wide. Is there a standard for this? If mine needs to be wider, this is another limitation of this neck block height.

[Stephanie Reiser]

If you mean width, I think I end up with 1-1/2",
somewhere in that neighborhood.

[buddyellis]

Honestly, isn't stability side to side more important than up and down, seeing as you have a truss rod to affect the latter, and little to no recourse to affect the former? Therefore a flatsawn neck would seem to me, all things equal, to be more desirable from a structural perspective (i.e. movement up and down is a heck of alot easier to modify than side to side neck movement). I'm sure this has been discussed to death, and I'm not sure there is a whole lot of structural difference in maple vis a vis flat/quarter strength, generally speaking.

What is more important, it would seem to me, is the timber itself, its rigidity, strength, seasoning, etc. I would guess that pretty much all rock maple is going to be fine, no matter the orientation, presuming properly seasoned wood.

[Darren Kern]

I meant the width from the side view, like this pic.

[Mario Proulx]

If you want to be safe, go ahead and add some, like in the drawing above. Won't hurt...

This is where you need to measure everything. Take your fretboard and/or the scale length you wish to use(I'd rather you have the fretboard on hand at this point), the mark off the nut end, and the 15th fret(or whatever you wish to run to) and go from there. Also, you can make the heel long-ish, or a short "nub" that is nearly not there. It's up to you...

[Antlurz]

It looks a bit short to me too, Darren, but not nearly as much as your outline. I'd think the wood pattern you have there wouldn't leave much for a dovetail. You can always cut it off if it's a bit long but I doubt you could find a wood stretcher small enough to work there. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Looks like maybe an additional 1/4 or 3/8ths would be enough.

Ron

[sunburst]

What is more important, it would seem to me, is the timber itself, its rigidity, strength, seasoning, etc.


That is absolutely right.


I would guess that pretty much all rock maple is going to be fine, no matter the orientation, presuming properly seasoned wood.


That's a little more chancy. You don't know what
happened in the tree from looking at a neck blank.
Occasionally, a piece of wood that looks like it
would be very stable turns out to make a "squirrely"
neck. That's one of the reasons I like to get my necks
from large boards. I can see if it is likely "normal"
wood (as opposed to reaction wood, juvenile, wood or
something else that might be unstable). We can be
fooled by a piece of wood from time to time.
As for direction of grain and general stability, a mandolin neck is so short (compared to, say, a 5 string banjo neck) that any good piece of wood is stable enough cut either way.

[Darren Kern]

I appreciate all the advice. I decided to go with the flat sawn(?? I need to learn my terminology) approach since everyone seems to say it should be stable either way, and I had more room doing it this way. I was actually able to cut out 2 necks from this piece of wood, might need a second in case I mess up.

Here's a pic, I'm happy with how it turned out, especially with my very limited bandsaw experience.

[buddyellis]

Thats what I was meaning: I.e. with 'pretty much all rock maple', presuming quality, stable wood, the length of the neck on a mandolin makes the stability issue IRT flat/quartersawn fairly inconsequential, hence the reason to go with the more aesthetically pleasing direction in alot of loars. I remember someone doing a test somewhere (frank ford maybe) in regards to grain direction and wood flexion and found that there was very little difference (Actually if I remember right the slab cut came out nominally 'stronger'), if any.

[buddyellis]

Rock on, Darren.

P.S. here's that Link (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=38562;st=25). it was rick turner.