Weber ste f prototypes

[Andrew Faltesek]

Hey cafe group! I would like to hear from other Weber STE F Prototype mandolin owners. How do you like your instrument? We are a group of about 30 prototypes (F & A style)that were made before Weber decided on the production model. Mine has just a super tone and although being a bit plain by traditional standards, is a beautiful instrument. Sarah Atkinson of Newgrass Generation seems to have one, she is the only other person I know that may have a prototype.

[brianf]

Double post.

[brianf]

I have an STE Prototype, F that I have played for about a year. I didn't much care for it at first, but it has really developed. I use Dadario strings, and it has the sound and feel of the old Flatiron (which I think it really is). The design seems to be the same, too.

[Andrew Faltesek]

Hey Brian, super! I purchased mine last February, and having only played several mandolins in the searching process; I did not have a very good basis for tone judgments other than my own opinion. But mine also has warmed up considerably and sounds great. How does your instrument look? Does it have a sunburst stain and the traditional style bridge; or the newer Brekke Original which is used on the production models?
I thought the instrument was a good buy for the price, twice what I thought about spending at first. It was frustrating trying to find a quality instrument after the $800-$900 range...they seemed to jump up to $3000 for something I liked. The Weber people make a quality mandolin, very neat construction and good finish, and I think well tuned. I kinda wanted an American made instrument; I was not too impressed with the cheaper imports, but I did want an instrument I could be satisfied with for a long time, not a "starter" instrument. The $900-$1000 ones just seemed to have more ornamentation with no noticible improvement in quality of material or construction.
The STE series neck joint is an integral one instead of the traditional style dovetail, just like the Flatirons; or so I am told. I never did get to play a Flatiron. I strummed a nice Gibson but MAN WAS IT SPENDY!

[brianf]

Yeah, I think mine is one of the first prototypes. #It has sunburst, fingerboard extension (not scooped), and the STE logo instead of Weber. #For many years, I couldn't pass a music store without looking for an upgrade in banjos. #Then I bought an RB250, and quit looking.

I also looked for a guitar that satisfied me. #Then I bought a Takimine 350s acoustic '83, and have quit looking.

I went through six mandolins, and played many many more, until I acquired this STE, and now I'll quit looking. #I know that preference is often a matter of personal taste, but the last mandolin that had the tone of this one was a Montana Flatiron.

[brianf]

Mandodrew,
Yesterday I noticed that the STE has disappeared from the internet. #Dennis Vance of the Mandolin Store said that they have stopped carrying them because "they dont' sound very good, and the neck joint stops the top from vibrating".

Also, Elderly is not carrying them, except for a couple left over.

Folks who have heard mine, and who have played it all are impressed with its tone and volume. #This leads me to wonder if there are legal reasons why Bruce isn't making them any more. #The STE design may be a little too close to the Flatiron, the rights to which Gibson bought.

It may also be due to the fact that the Flatiron name is being used by Chinese makers.

I wonder how many of the f models are out there?

Our "law suit" Takimine guitars may be now accompanied by "law suit" mandolins!!!

[Rick Banuelos]

Yesterday I noticed that the STE has disappeared from the internet. #Dennis Vance of the Mandolin Store said that they have stopped carrying them because "they dont' sound very good, and the neck joint stops the top from vibrating".

Dennis is certainly entitled to his opinions, as we all are, and opinions are as subjective as they are numerous. I've heard from quite a few players who really like the sound, and who have begged us not to discontinue the model.

The integral fingerboard design does not impinge on the vibration of the sound board. The spruce is very thin at the point it joins the fretboard, and the lack of an extension block actually makes for a more open sound chamber.


Folks who have heard mine, and who have played it all are impressed with its tone and volume. #This leads me to wonder if there are legal reasons why Bruce isn't making them any more. #The STE design may be a little too close to the Flatiron, the rights to which Gibson bought.

Firstly, nobody is suing anybody; nor are there any pending complaints by anybody about anything.

The original intent of the STE mandolin was to make a Weber-built model for mass-market and large chain store distribution, while maintaining the Weber brand's status as a boutique brand for boutique shops. Because no mass-market or chain retail outlets signed on to carry STE, the brand and models were discontinued because they do not fit well in our standard Weber line.

To reiterate: the discontinuation of the STE line was strictly a marketing decision.


I wonder how many of the f models are out there?


There are 20 STE F-style mandolins in existence. The final one is on its way to Byron Berline for OIBF.

[brianf]

Thanks, Rick. #My first reaction, to #the knowledge that they were being dicontinued, was dismay that I might have been had. #Certainly Dennis's opinion is not helpful, and I am surprised that he feels that way. He didn't mention it when he sold it to me.#It is possible that, in stocking them, he was competing with himself, re the more expensive mandolins.

My second reaction is that, with only twenty of them in existence, their quality will eventually become recognized, and, like the older Flatirons, their value will increase.

At any rate, I am perfectly happy with mine, and am grateful that Weber provided, if only briefly, an excellent instrument at a decent price.

Brian

[The Mandolin Store]

Well................I hestitate to respond in here but I feel I need to at this point. I get numerous calls and emails from people asking my opinion about what their instruments worth, what I think about various mandolins, etc. Although we are very busy, I always take the time to answer questions with 100% honesty and integrity - always. My opinions are just that........sometimes we don;t tell people what they want to hear. That's not my fault. If you ask me about a mandolin we are selling.........I will tell you exactly what I think of it.....good bad...whatever. Once in a while someone does this and posts my thoughts for the public and I take some heat for it. I can't help but feel that 99% of the people appreciate the fact that we are straight shooters.

In regard to the STE's.......the ones we had were prototypes that we bought on special and sold really cheap.........much cheaper than the going price. Given the regular price, they are were close to a maple Gallatin - which sounds way better. That's why we chose not to stock them.

Dennis Vance / www.themandolinstore.com

[Andrew Faltesek]

Oh, its too bad the STE line could not find a market. I thought Weber would do well with it. There is a real need for domestic mandolins of neat construction in an affordable price range; but it is a tough environment to compete in. At the price I paid, there were no other new instruments I looked at that could touch it for sound or quality. I am new to the mandolin however; and I based my judgements on my own eye for quality, sound, and appearance.
Friends of mine had nothing but praise for the folks at Weber...their business model, how they treat their workers, and construction quality. I decided to support a domestic manufacturer. Weber seems well positioned to produce a quality range of instruments at decent price points. There are so many options out there this must be difficult. Aside from wealthy purchasers who can indulge any desire for an instrument; Weber will endure in areas of market, loyalty, renown, construction and sound quality, etc., by producing instruments a wider range of musicians can afford. The STE line seemed to be a good effort to get a quality made instrument from the Weber shop to the more value minded consumers.
When I was trying out mandolins, I noticed people were drawn to models with more inlay and glossy finishes, etc., sometimes over sound quality, but people will purchase what pleases them. When I saw the STE prototype (after searching several months)it seemed the stars lined up, and I jumped on the purchase...but like the people who's eyes glaze over at fancy inlay, I knew what I wanted and purchased what pleased me.
I think the STE's we have are VERY nice instruments, certainly at the price we paid.

[Andrew Faltesek]

I got off of 12 hrs of work today and grabbed the STE for a little pickin' on the front porch. An older guy in a captain's hat walking up the sidewalk stopped and commented on "how nice it sounded floating over the evening air." I later got an ale and sat down...carefully looked over the instrument once again. It is impeccably constructed/fitted from any angle, reminding me of Martin guitars which always seem to exhibit no flaws.
I admit to checking out high-end mandolins I dream of owning, but if I never get another mandolin, there is nothing about the STE that would make me feel like I settled for something less. Like Brian, I felt the search was over.
The mandolin seems to be a better fit for me musically than the guitar. If my skills develop to the point where it could be justified, I would love a high-end instrument (most likely a Weber). But the STE is too nice and too good a value to let go in any case.
It is really nice to be able to share ideas here at the Cafe, I have learned so much from reading the many threads. What a resource.

[Kevin Briggs]

MandoDrew,

It's good to hear you like your STE. If you ever muster up the funds, and you feel it's time, the Weber Fern awaits. One of the nice things about the Weber line is that you can get a Weber mandolin at just about every price point. For example, I used to own a custom Bitteroot, but now have a custom Fern.

I'm thinking of ordering a Gallatin A style with an oval hole instead of f holes from Dennis, but this will be some time in the future. I think the Gallatin A would be nice with an oval hole, and it would certainly be a very affordable mandolin. I don't have a huge need for a mandolin with an oval hole, but it would be nice for occasions when I'm playing in a duo.

I'll say this about the posts above:

I ordered my Fern from Dennis because he's very honest, and I sensed right away that he would do exactly what he promised. He did me so right, I feel like I got the better end of the deal. The transaction was great, and I won't hesitate to order from him again.

In regards to the STE model and why it was discontinued, you can take Rick's word for it. One thing that has always impressed me about the Weber folks is that they are as simple as they seem. That is to say, they are not talking out of both sides of their mouth. Everyone knows businesses have to make money to survive, and Rick is saying that the STE model was screwing up the business. I can't think of a more honest response from a business rep.

Now, finally, I'll add that all of the above is true as long as you don't have any prejudices against nasally Ohioans turned Arizonians who get to gab about great mandolins all day, and bearded Montana grown sales managers/luthiers who compare mandolin tone to horses kicking cars, and somehow make it seem like a good sound. If you are predisposed to dislike people from Ohio, Arizona, and/or Montana, then all of my positive comments are useless. In fact, I'm thinking about taking all of the comments back, calling Musician's Friend, and buying all of the Pac-Rim mandolins in stock. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Andrew Faltesek]

Well, back at work for another 12 hrs today and takin' a quick look at the board.
I would agree that Dennis Vance's opinions are offered to be helpful, and considerably well-informed...the guy is surrounded by more kinds of mandolins than I will ever see in several lifetimes! I purchased my STE F from the Mandolin Store also; and Dennis was very helpful. The instrument was just as he described...a well constructed "basic" unit. I figured his price to be say $300-$500 below its reasonable value based on my own subjective opinion and research. I had already decided the STE was the mando I was going to purchase, and just wanted to confirm some basic questions. If I needed more information or wanted someone to guide me in choosing between different instruments I was interested in, Dennis would have been a fantastic resource.
The STE F was purchased as a gift to myself on the occasion of my 50th birthday, and my wife pitched in on it also, so MY out-of pocket expense was "just" $900. #Not too bad...speaking with Dennis confirmed what I was itchin' to do...JUMP ON IT! I'm glad I did, since it seems it was a good opportunity to exploit a development and test marketing effort.
It sounds like it was not so much that the STE line was bad business for Sound To Earth; but more that major retailers didn't pick up on them...probably because there was a better margin with the cheaper imports. The casual or "family" consumer will be more influenced by "eye candy." I saw this time and time again while shopping. The local big stores were so limited, it wasn't long before the secialized shops were the only decent option. People I saw at, for example: the Homestead Pickin' Parlour; were pretty descerning, and had that smiling but humble look as they realized just how much it was going to cost to get a good one. #
Folks that frequent Mandolin Cafe most likely make well informed and careful decisions on a purchase. I kicked around for a long time as Guest and "learnt' a hole bunch!" while shopping locally for an instrument. Lucky for 20 of us, the internet provided alternative sources from the local stock and yielded a good buy.
Thanks again for your comments; and I would still like to hear from any other STE owners out there.

[brianf]

It seems we are, indeed, an exclusive and blessed club! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Andrew Faltesek]

Oh man!...and you've got a Takamine too! I've been playin' the STE so much my wife asked me if I'd forgot about my guitar. The mandolin is just so sweet sounding the way it rings that it just begs to be played. I did play a real nice Ibanez acoustic guitar that belongs to a friend from work last week to work out chords and pickin' to "Shady Grove" and "Louis Collins" that we wanted to jam on. I let him play my STE and I play his (plywood)Fender mandolin. He has serious multiple instrument acquisition syndrome...guitars, fiddles, electric guitars, keyboards, banjos, bass guitars...its like a candy store down in his little music room! I set up his Fender mando for him as it was unplayable as it was, and now I think he is getting the mando bug.

[brianf]

Yeah, the D28 Takamine is a terrific guitar. #I get a kick out of having someone in a jam ask to try it out, thinking that it is a Martin. #It doesn't have quite the bass punch that a Martin has, but it's an easy play and has excellent tone and volume.
I paid $300 for it, and pocketed the $3,000 difference between it and the Martin.
Owning it has taught me that when you find a really good instrument, ignore the worrys about who made it. #That is the way I feel about the STE. #Maybe some day all twenty of us will be in contact.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Andrew Faltesek]

OH YEAH! It was a long time ago, but I think I paid $350 for the Takamine early in '79. I had an Ovation Custom with a deep back that a friend managed to somehow crack the finish on, near the bridge. I found the Tak and purchased it to console myself, then traded the Ovation for some gas welding equipment! My Takamine has a rosewood back and sides, spruce top, and a specially shaped bridge and headstock. The fretboard is ebony. Very nice quality materials and overall construction, but some hard-to-see flaws like small bits of filler in the seams of the ivory binding. It had a bright, boomy, sort of unbalanced tone at first, but has mellowed very well...sounds great now! I'll try to post a photo of it and the STE.
Had a fun time after work tonight...somehow assembled my daughter to play her violin, my son to play the Tak, and a nephew to play an Ovation Celebrity Trekker 3/4 size guitar, and me on the STE for a few songs! Now thats what its all about!

[brianf]

Just a thought; #If the STE is really a Flatiron in work clothes, and if this is the second time it has been smothered for the reason that it was a serious threat to established lines, then like the gal who made $800 in East Podunk, it HAS to be good!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Andrew Faltesek]

Stopped by The Podium over in Minneapolis and got some Wegen picks, as I had heard good things about them. Played the STE with an M100, M150, and one called the Dipper, which was 1.8 mm. They were a bit spendy for picks, but yielded a bit more volume and seemed better suited for mando playing than the Ultra Cool heavy guitar picks I was using. The STE F now has a bit more bark! Anyone have any experience with the "Dawg" picks available at Grisman's website?

[Terry W. Harvey]

i got 3 Dawg picks just recently & i like the thickness but i'm going to file/sand down the pickin' point if you will. i also have an STE but it isn't a proto, it has a serial #. i post a photo.

[Terry W. Harvey]

My STE

[Andrew Faltesek]

Nice mandolin! You have the coveted "production" STE F of which there are few!Saw your pics on the other thread. Was super busy again last week, but will post a snap of my prototype this week come hell or high water. What is the thickness of the Dawg picks? 1.5 mm? I'm still getting used to the thicker picks and exploring thickness/stiffness verses sound quality, but I like the bigger size and more rounded points. The STE never sounded better.

[Andrew Faltesek]

Not too many STE responses...could be another deadthread! I took some B&W pics(sorry, on film) of the STE up in Bear Head Lake State Park, where my son and I camped two days. Rained all day, all night, both days.

Played the STE under the tarp with cold fingers. Slow tunes worked best! I sipped a little Jameson to lubricate the fretboard for speed, but no effect. Seemed to handle the temps and humidity fine.

Spent some time with my brother's children(age 5 & 9); let them "play" the STE and an ovation guitar (they were suprisingly careful) and they just went wild! Especially with the mandolin.

Was super busy last two weeks arranging trip to Belize and winterizing cars and house for the big chill, so I will try to snap some digital pics this week.

[des mando]

in regards to picks the ones at jazzmando are great and cheap or,er a good value

[Andrew Faltesek]

brianf and tennroots...here is an older pic of my STE(with takamine) until I can post a sharper one.

Been playing the STE more the last few weeks, and made some breakthroughs with scales, hammer-ons/pull-offs, and general speed and feeling; after a short slump period. Got discouraged a bit due to slower than expected development and awe of the many talented players out there.

The better (wegen) plectrums really do make a difference in the sound and loudness of the STE.

[Andrew Faltesek]

A better Pic:

[Brian Fortier]

Great pictures. #And thanks. #Now I won't have to post pictures of mine, becsuse it is the twin of yours in every detail, except that it might be just a tad darker.

I had thought some of getting the fingerboard extension scooped, but out of concern that changing the mass in the region of the integrated neck-top might not be wise, decided not to.

I am very happy with mine, and I find that every time I get some hot picker to try it, I like it better. #I do this just to show the mando what it is supposed to sound like. #After all, mandolins need teachers, too. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Andrew Faltesek]

Call STE in Montana for advice on possible effects of scooping the fretboard, they will be happy to lay any concerns to rest. I would surmise that it would not be a problem.

I get some satisfaction letting others play the STE, and have found in all cases a great appreciation for the quality, looks, and sound of the instrument.

Merry Christmas!

[MikeEdgerton]

I had thought some of getting the fingerboard extension scooped, but out of concern that changing the mass in the region of the integrated neck-top might not be wise, decided not to.
The only thing it will affect is the originality of the instrument.

[Larroman]

Just found this old thread. I have one of the Weber STE's i bought from Elderly in 05...she has opened up nicely!
Looks just like the one owned by Terry W Harvey a few posts back

[brianf]

Eighty-seven years and tendonitis have made my STE lonely, as it sits quietly in its case, wondering where the old man went. I gave my Takemine guitar to a nephew's daughter, who now has a new life-long friend. I now understand the old complaint that, "Just when you finally get to greener pastures, you find that you can't climb the damned fence!"

[Larroman]

Found a pic

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c390/23L/IMG_6411.jpg

[Andrew Faltesek]

Brian, sorry to hear tendonitis is keeping you away from the mandolin. Your nephew's daughter is very lucky to have been given that classic Takamine guitar, a very fine instrument no doubt sounding very nice from all your years of playing it. Don't give up climbing some fences anyway, to obtain the pastures you desire.

My STE is slightly changed with a beautiful inlayed ebony armrest/tailpiece from Weber, which I installed to hopefully address an issue with the tailpiece pulling up at the lower screw point; but after time I've noticed that its lifted up a bit again. Since it sounds and plays great, I'm not sure if I'm going to do anything else; maybe a larger threaded insert/screw or nut/washer inside the body at the tail block. I thought I'd remove the tailpiece to inspect the threaded insert and take a look look inside at the next string change.

I played the STE at a benefit some time ago, and it sounded great through my little tube amp.