German archtop mandolinetto

[Martin Jonas]

I've just pulled the trigger on this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260153967013) mandolin on Ebay Germany. The seller clearly has no idea what it is, so all I know is what can be seen in the photo below. At that Buy-It-Now price, I wasn't going to wait for any replies to questions, so I'm pretty much buying this blind.

This looks basically like a scaled-down Gibson L5 guitar to me, although I suspect this top is pressed rather than carved. Bound f-holes, raised pickguard, block inlays, trapezoid tailpiece, neck joint at the 12th fret. Non-adjustable bridge, and no raised fingerboard, I think. German-made, presumably, possibly by Hoyer or Framus or one of that crowd. Looks like there may be a maker's logo on the headstock, but I can't make it out.

I'm looking forward to discovering more about it when I have it in my hands!

Martin

[MikeEdgerton]

I'd guess Framus as well but that headstock looks a lot like the old Supro guitars.

[Amandalyn]

I have a Hoyer that is very similar except the headstock is shaped different & no block inlay. Mine plays well and sounds not bad.

[Jim Garber]

F-holes looks like Hoyer. Here is a guitar with similar f-holes but headstock is reversed from your mandolin. I would not say an L-5 tho. Those are a little more subtle in design with very graceful f-holes.

http://jazzgitarren.k-server.org/hoyerherr-01.jpg

Jim

[MikeEdgerton]

Maybe they made the headstock for different political affiliations. Some leaned left, some leaned right.

[Martin Jonas]

F-holes looks like Hoyer. Here is a guitar with similar f-holes but headstock is reversed from your mandolin. I would not say an L-5 tho. Those are a little more subtle in design with very graceful f-holes.

Thanks Jim, Mike and AmandaLyn: Hoyer does seem the best bet. When I said "L-5", I didn't quite mean down to the level of graceful f-hole design. It's just that this one seems closer to an archtop guitar than most German guitar-shaped mandos. Most have cat's eye soundholes and standard mandolin tailpieces. I think a lot of the less-than-subtle impression of the f-holes on mine and on that Hoyer guitar is the white binding which makes them seem bigger than they are.

Martin

[bluesmandolinman]

30 euros .... wow what a bargain

[Fliss]

Martin, congratulations on your new purchase, or should I say your latest bargain http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I imagine you'll be picking that up next week?

Fliss

[Martin Jonas]

I imagine you'll be picking that up next week?
I hope so, although I haven't heard back from the seller yet. I've paid, and asked for the instrument to be sent in time for my trip to Germany to visit my parents, so it really should work out.

Looking around the web, I'm now pretty sure it's a Hoyer -- all the other German guitar-shaped mandos out there are significantly different, whereas there are several fairly similar Hoyers. The company has just been ressurrected, albeit with dubious claims to continuity, and their new web site has a PDF of their 1948 catalogue here (http://www.hoyer-guitars.com/Hoyer_Katalog_1948.pdf). There's only one mandolin in that catalogue, and it's very similar to the one I bought. It's called "Gibson Mandolin" in the catalogue, which suggests a deliberate imitation of the L-5 shape (clearly it's not based on any Gibson mandolin). The only significant difference between the catalogue and mine is the headstock shape. However, as Hoyer did have this type of headstock on their guitars, I think that's a fairly minor alteration. So, I'm guessing it's a late-1940s or early-1950s Hoyer.

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

I have now received this instrument, and it's very intriguing. #First off, the headstock logo is just a shop label by a music shop in the Black Forest. #Same town as the seller's hometown, so this doesn't seem to have moved around. #No maker's logo or label. #Having looked at it more closely, I suspect it's not a Hoyer, or indeed any other production model, but instead a handmade one-off, possibly by a moonlighting German violin maker (the varnish looks pretty violinish to me, as does some of the workmanship). #The top is solid and may even be carved rather than pressed. #Very distinct arch, with a clear recurve at the edges. #Rather peculiar block inlay: this is the same material as the fretboard binding, bakelite I think, not MOP. #There clearly never was any inlay at the 10th fret, which looks odd.

There are some condition issues which I will need to think about how to deal with:

1) There is a hairline crack in the top on the bass side of the tailblock, about 5cm long. #Looks fairly innocuous, no gap no movement, but should probably be repaired. #Might be tricky to do, though, without taking off the top.

2) The top has moved in various directions in a moderately dramatic fashion, some sinkage under the bridge and some upwards warping between bridge and fretboard. #Difficult to say whether there is any danger of collapse.

3) Most significantly in terms of setting up for playing, the neck is somewhat bowed, especially on the lowest frets, leading to an action of around 5mm (even with the top sinkage in the bridge area). #Unplayable as it is, I need to consider whether to fit a lower bridge (it would need about half the height of the existing bridge) or, more invasively, take the fretboard off and shim it.

Most intriguingly is the scale length. #The previous owner clearly considered it as a mandolin and had medium gauge flatwound mando strings on it. #However, the scale length is a touch over 15", which gets into mandola territory. #No idea how it would have been tuned originally -- if it was intended as a mandola but (over-)strung as a mandolin, this might explain the top sinkage/neck bowing. #One option for lowering the action and (partially) dealing with the neck bow might be to remove the original zero fret and treat the existing first fret as the zero fret, but I am reluctant to modify the original design to this extent. #Of course, using a capo on the first fret would be much the same.

Photos to follow once I've taken some!

Martin

[Ted Eschliman]

Woof...

[Martin Jonas]

By coincidence, here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260158720761) is an actual Hoyer of this type for sale. It confirms to me that mine is not a Hoyer -- it really looks quite different.

Martin