How often do you get asked:

[Tim2723]

I suppose that the Bluegrass guys probably play to audiences that usually recognize the mandolin, but I get this question almost once a night. "That's neat, what is it?" or "What do you call that little guitar?"

Anybody else get that a lot? Got any good come-backs?

[pjlama]

I say it's a banjo http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wichitamando]

I get a lot of ukelele and little guitar comments from unknowing listeners. Probably because I play in a rock band. My bandmates love joking about my baby guitar, a.k.a my telecaster-looking emando.

As long as they don't call it a b**jo, I'm okay with it. I picked mandolin to learn because of its relative scarcity and uniqueness.

Maybe this our way of furthering the musical education of the public.

[Tim2723]

"I picked mandolin to learn because of its relative scarcity and uniqueness. "

Ya know, that had a lot to do with my own choice. Everybody and his cousin was playing the guitar, and I wanted something different. I'd actually never seen a mandolin before I got my first one. I saw it in the Sears and Roebuck catalog for $30 and thought "That looks like something fun and different". I've been playing for 30+ years and have never regretted a minute.

[John Flynn]

I had a lady with a heavy Eastern European accent come up to me after church and ask me what the instrument was. I told her it was a mandolin.

She said, "I tot so. Is from Romania, no?"

I said, "Well I am sure some people play them in Romania, but I think they orginated in Italy and Spain."

She said, "Oh no, it come from Romania. I know!"

I said, "I'm sure you're right."

[MandoBen]

I get a lot of people asking if it is a ukulele.
Eventually I just started saying, "Yes, it is."

[Chip Booth]

Twice today... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Jason Holmes]

I like to reply to the all-too-familiar "What's that thing?" with a puzzled look and a "Hmm...You know, I'm not quite sure."

[Celtic-Grass]

I get the "little guitar" thing too, once a month maybe. But two weeks ago, at the session which is 80% fiddles, an elderly fellow from the restaurant side, came up to me and whistled and looked admiringly at Daphne and said. "Ooo, that's a nice one! But you know..." he said, "That's a mandolin!"
Just smile and nod. Smile and nod.

[Paul Hostetter]

90% of the people at casuals and so on who come up and ask usually say "Is that a balalaika?"

BALALAIKA??? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Jim Broyles]

Guys, why is it so hard to say that your little instrument is a mandolin? The folks who ask what they are aren't malicious, they are uninformed. I certainly don't know what everything I come across in life is, and I still wouldn't know what a tiple is if I hadn't come across one in a Google search for something else. Why not just be informative and maybe you'll attract a fan for our "little guitar."

[KNP String Band Mando]

Every single gig I get asked what it is. I used to explain things to them(tuning, body style, maker,Mr. Loar) but no one gets it. Now I just agree with what ever they say...stupid soroity girls

[Jim Broyles]

90% of the people at casuals and so on who come up and ask usually say "Is that a balalaika?"

BALALAIKA??? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Well, we can make them sound like one, sorta, if we try.

[Jason Holmes]

If/when I tell people I don't know what my mandolin is I really say it in jest, and only to people who seem to have the sense of humor to accept such an answer, after which I'll tell them what it is. I have no problem telling anyone that my mandolin is a mandolin. I'll tell someone all about it if they seem to have a genuine interest.

[Bruce Evans]

I've had my ukulele called a mandolin and my mandolin called a ukulele. I've had both called a little guitar. And yes, I have been asked, "Is that a banjo?"

[mando_toss_flycoon]

I had someone ask me if my mandolin was a sitar. No lie. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[jim simpson]

My new neighbor of almost 2 months overheard (out of town visiting) RayQ and myself playing. We played some mandolin/octave mandolin duets and mandolin/guitar duets. He commented the next day about hearing the banjo! Talk about blind prejudice, he only heard the instrument and still got it wrong. Oh well, I still like the guy.

[Leevon DeCourley]

Alot of people call my mandolin a banjo for some unknown reason. Tonight after work I had it in the truck, my co workers wanted me to get out my "little deal" and play them a song. Thats a new one for me.

[56 Gibson Hoss]

My favorite responses:
1. It is a ukelele that took LSD.......
2. A guitar with a thyroid problem.........
3. An instrument designed for Billy Barty...........

I get laffs from the 1st two, but not from the last one......some people dont know who Billy Barty is.

(answer....a midget from a kids' TV show back in the 50's)

[56 Gibson Hoss]

The funniest response I have every had did not come from me.
WHen our band (Within Tradition) played the Pizza Hut Showdown in 1996, we videotaped our performance.
I was given a copy of the tape and I played it at a company meeting in our office during a pizza lunch.

While we were watching the first song, one of the ladies of our staff said outloud: "Gee, Tom, I did not know you had such a small instrument...."
She immediately left the room very red faced, and me and the other staffers were laffing so hard we did not get anything accomplished for the rest of the meeting.

For any of you others that get accused of having a small instrument, please sign on here................LOL

[Ivan Kelsall]

Many years ago i was on my way to a local folk club & had my Banjo with me in a shaped case.The driver of the bus that i was on asked me what was in the case,i told him it was a trumpet & he seemed ok with that.
I just traded one of my 'F' Mandolins in for an 'A' style on Saturday. At the train station there was a young guy with a Guitar case on his way back from a teaching seminar for children,where he'd been one of the teachers. He looked at my shaped 'A' style case & i thought that he was going to ask me if it was a Ukulele. I was surprised when he said "have you got a Mandolin there". So it seems some people know what they're looking at,probably mostly musicians themselves,
Saska

[jim_n_virginia]

We try to play top people who like the kind of music we play (bluegrass, old country and Old Time) and most all of them know it is a mandolin, but occasionally we play for crowds that are unfamiliar with bluegrass and I almost always get the question.

Once when me and the female lead singer who plays a Martin HD-28 dread, were volunteering and singing and playing some duets at a nursing home this very elderly woman resident shouts out... "Why is that tiny little gal playing that great big guitar and that great big guy is playing the tiniest guitar I have ever seen. It seems like it would be the other way around!"

I had no answer for her! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Gerry Tenney]

Many older people still think that a mandolin is a bowl backed instrument. I believe that is the source of the error. A lot of kids think its a banjo because they associate one with the other, having seen or heard them together.

[Rick Cadger]

i got a lot of ukulele questions. the first time a guy asked me if ukulele was hard to play i was baffled. i told him i didn't really know, and then he looked baffled. we parted mutually confused, and only then did i realise that he thought my mando was a uke.

i also get the 'little guitar' thing when i play the Ovation mando.

sometimes when people ask what it is i make up a word on the spot and tell them it is one of those.

[LKN2MYIS]

The older folks appreciate this.

I tell people it's a guitar that went
through the wash without being 'sanforized'.

[aussiemando]

There was an Aboriginal man who was sick in hospital when it was my 6th birthday. #My mother took me there and I played my mandolin for him and gave him some of my birthday cake. #He went on to be my substitute grandfather and he often said lovingly "It was that cake and your ukelele playing that made me better". #He died when I was 30 and in all that time I never corrected him - it just didn't seem to matter. #His name was Banjo. #He had a fascinating life and my mother taped his memoirs over 17 years and put together a book called "Wisdom Man". #Anyway, there's a line in that book which goes something like "and Ruth played her ukelele" - thereby immortalizing the misconception.

[royboy]

my wifes in laws still think mine is a banjo. they ask every time i see them can i play dueling banjos. and i got asked a week ago if it was a uke.

[JeffD]

"Is that a bazooka? Or a balaluke?"

[JeffD]

my wifes in laws still think mine is a banjo.
Not that it matters, but your wife's inlaws would be... I think... your parents.

Unless:

Now many, many years ago, when I was twenty-three,
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be.
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red.
My father fell in love with her, and soon they, too, were wed.

This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life,
My daughter was my mother, cause she was my father's wife.
To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad,
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad.
For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grown-up daughter, who, of course, was my stepmother.

Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run,
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son.
My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue,
Because, although she is my wife, she's my grandmother, too.

Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild,
And everytime I think of it, it nearly drives me wild,
For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa!

[pathfinder]

That's a classic ("I Am My Own Grandpa"). It usually comes out when the beer kicks in. Another one is "The Bald-Headed End of The Broom". Sorry if I digress...

[Enigmatic Recluse]

I figure if someone is so clueless as to not recognize an instrument rarely heard in mainstream culture then a good comeback will fly right over their head, so I chastise them for their foolishness, humiliate them for showing curiousity and make it clear that there is absolutely no chance that such an uncouth cretin could possibly have a legitimate interest that I know next to nothing about.

[mandomurph]

I tell people it's a mandolin, and if they remark about it being "little" I tell them it's for playing "little" tunes. Similarly, my long neck banjo is for playing long songs.

[Bill Van Liere]

Just play Tip Toe Thru the Tulips and sing it in falsetto (more fun at times than trying to expalin what a mandolin is)

When you get tired of the ukulele comments take the next step and get an octave mandolin. My favorite is: Does that have eight strings on it? No answer necessary

[Paul Kotapish]

I wouldn't expect most folks to know what my funny little instrument is, and I'm always pleased when someone takes the trouble to come up and ask. It shows that they are paying attention and that there was something of interest in what they are seeing and hearing.

I played a wedding this past Saturday night and several people came up to ask what that me what that my pretty instrument was. As usual, they were surprised to learn that it was a mandolin.

If anyone shows a a glimmer of interest, I offer a sentence or two on history of the carved, F-style mandolin, and how Orville Gibson was inspired by the violin. When I place Orville's original design in the context of the whole Art Nouveau movement, they usually get it.

People are happy to learn something new, and I reckon that's better than some snide remark. There's nothing to mock in someone revealing ignorance in the course of trying to overcome it.

Just one guy's opinion.

PK

[AlanN]

Now many, many years ago, when I was twenty-three,
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be.
Classic!

and it goes over better with "widder" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[JeffD]

If anyone shows a a glimmer of interest, I offer a sentence or two on history of the carved, F-style mandolin, and how Orville Gibson was inspired by the violin. When I place Orville's original design in the context of the whole Art Nouveau movement, they usually get it.

People are happy to learn something new, and I reckon that's better than some snide remark. There's nothing to mock in someone revealing ignorance in the course of trying to overcome it.
Well done.

[JeffD]

My bowlback has been confused with a lute. Not really a stretch there.

[Kero]

She said, "Oh no, it come from Romania. I know!"
i would of told her in my heavy hunky accent:

Sure lady, can I play a Hora for Ya??

:-)

[Paul Hostetter]

The circumstance I was in most often where people would volunteer a guess of "balalaika" was with my old pal Tony Flores. He was profoundly Sicilian, and for the most part our repertoire reflected that, but when people asked if his A-5 was a balalaika and we politely told them it was a mandolin, that was a cue to play Lara's Theme from Dr. Zhivago. Heh heh. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[blawson]

I tell folks that I left my guitar in the dryer too long.

[Rick Cadger]

i think a couple of posters may not understand that many of the responses are not meant with malice, but as gentle jokes. you'd be surprised how many people do have a sense of humour.

[Paul Kotapish]

The circumstance I was in most often where people would volunteer a guess of "balalaika" was with my old pal Tony Flores. He was profoundly Sicilian, and for the most part our repertoire reflected that, but when people asked if his A-5 was a balalaika and we politely told them it was a mandolin, that was a cue to play Lara's Theme from Dr. Zhivago. Heh heh.
Great story, Paul, although playing the tune on mandolins was not such a stetch, as "Lara's Theme" was actually played on tamburitzas--not balalaikas--by the ubiquitous Crljenica Brothers, who provided exotic plectrum sounds for scads of movie during the middle decades of the 20th C., including Dr. Zhivago, and Lawrence of Arabia, among many others. Apparently they were the go-to guys whenever a composer needed something vaguely ethnic sounding for an otherwise straightforward score.

(There was a great little radio documentary about them a few years back, but I can't find the reference at the moment.)

[olgraypat]

Seems like once before we were told that the "balalaika" themes from Dr. Zhivago were played on a Gibson A...all this time, I've been spreading false intellectual info. Fortunately, no one knew or cared about either instrument or who played it...

[Paul Kotapish]

i think a couple of posters may not understand that many of the responses are not meant with malice, but as gentle jokes. you'd be surprised how many people do have a sense of humour.
I think the humorous responses are fine and probably appreciated by the folks asking the question--especially if they actually get a straight answer, too.

I'm just surprised by the irritation that some mandolinists experience when someone isn't familiar with their particular instrument. How many of us could name all of the instruments in an early music ensemble or in a middle-eastern band? The mando is much more common than it was a few years back, but it's not part of everyone's experience.

I remember going to my first bluegrass festival in Culpepper, Virginia, in 1972 and being completely bewildered by the mandolins I saw in the bands. The first group had (what I later learned was a regulation) F-5, the next had an A-style, another had a two-pointer, and finally the brand-new Seldom Scene got up with John Duffy playing his own "duck" model. I thought that every mandolin player had a unique instrument design and that was the norm.

[Lou Scuderi]

I'm really a celtic mandolinist, but I've been playing bluegrass and acoustic rock/folk (basically wooden music for those CSNY fans out there) for a while now in my most recent band. At my gig yesterday, the program listed me as playing the mandolin, so nobody asked what I was playing, but I did have one person come up and ask me:
"What is Bluegrass?"
I was kind of confused. How can you live in America for your whole life (this lady looked older) and not know what bluegrass is?

[olgraypat]

Until I can identify all the instruments in the symphony, I'll just try to be nice. I'm amazed at the "wise-guy" answers I get from musicians when I ask questions, usually, in hopes of picking up a bit of knowledge or information. I think we all have our areas of expertise, and need to realize that those around us just want to be friendly, learn something or find out more about what we're doing. Why that is irritating is actually beyond me.

[Paul Hostetter]

...playing the tune on mandolins was not such a stretch, as "Lara's Theme" was actually played on tamburitzas--not balalaikas--by the ubiquitous Crljenica Brothers... Apparently they were the go-to guys whenever a composer needed something vaguely ethnic sounding for an otherwise straightforward score.

Jeez, it's nice to know someone besides Zamfir gets a call once in awhile.

[Gutbucket]

I always get the ukelele comparison. I just agree with them and tell them Aurther Godfrey and Bill Monroe were step brothers.

[Bill Van Liere]

Thank you flattop for understanding my poor attempt at Monday morning humor. I feel honor when people ask me what that beautiful instument is that I am playing and I do give them a staight answer. And for the record I also do educational music programs at elemetary public schools so that young people are exposed to the mechanics of a variety of celtic instruments.

[royboy]

jeffd your right my inlaws

[Dan Adams]

It happened just this last Saturday. I'm not very good about hiding my disgust of people's ignorance... Probably not the best way to educate the uninformed public. Oh well!! Dan

[JeffD]

#How can you live in America for your whole life (this lady looked older) and not know what bluegrass is?
I will take it your serious, and be appropriately embarrased if you are kidding.

I think most Americans don't know what bluegrass is. They might remember its something about Kentucky, and some might know its a type of music, but have never heard it to recognize it, and of those who know its a kind of music most think any accoustic folkie sounding thing is bluegrass.

All the roots musical traditions are not appreciated in the main stream. To most Americans, modern country music is the closest they get to what they think of as roots or traditional.

Folk music to most Americans is John Denver, or Bob Dylan.

What you hear on most commercial radio stations would confirm this. That's where the money is.

So to bring it back to this thread - no it is not suprizing that people wonder about our "little instrument".

If you disagree let me know, I would be glad to be wrong.

[sean parker]

After this gig, a guy came up and said great banjo playing! I had been playing a L-7 archtop....years of practice, a beautiful vintage archtop guitar, a nice intimate venue with good sound, and the guy thinks it's a banjo.

It was frustrating but I was pleased he liked my playing, and that's what counts - we both enjoyed ourselves and shared a bit of time together with music.

No issues with mandolins....yet http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bob Wiegers]

I had my octave and a lady asked if it was a lute. I thought it was a pretty good guess. it's often accused of being a banjo when in the case.

here in southeast tennesee, of course most folks are at least aware of what bluegrass is. I happen to not play much bluegrass...more folk/gospel type stuff. but when they see/hear the mandolin they assume everything I play is bluegrass. oh well, at least they seem to like it.

[bjc]

I was playing on my front porch playing mando about 6 in the morning when a lady walks by and says "I love mandolin..." My jar hit the floor!

On the other side my guitar player will joking introduce me as "Brian on the Little Guitar..." But, I have people ask me "what makes that a little guitar?" Oh My...

[AlanN]

Hey, it's not just the un-informed who say that. I have a Keith Whitley/Jimmy Gaudreau show from 1972 where Keith introduces Jimmy on the 'leetle geetar' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Tim2723]

As the guy who started it, let me say thanks for the replies, and I'm sure the snappy answers are just good humor among fellow mandolinists. I did ask for come-backs after all.

Personally, there's nothing as gratifying to me as when someone comes up and asks about my instrument. I play mostly in bars (not pubs. Bars. There's a difference) where many times no one bothers to look at you, let alone appreciate you. It's especially gratifying when a young person asks, since they've probably never seen a mandolin on MTV.

[Paul Hostetter]

It's especially gratifying when a young person asks, since they've probably never seen a mandolin on MTV.
Gee, hasn't the stunning mandolinist Paul McCartney made it onto MTV by now?

[Rocky Top]

The "little guitar" actually only happened to me once. Most people in TN know what a mando is. My favorite one was one time a young lady said "I love it when he plays that cute little mandolin". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Paul Kotapish]

How can you live in America for your whole life (this lady looked older) and not know what bluegrass is?
That doesn't surprise me at all. For most folks, music is something that comes out of the radio and isn't correlated to indivuals playing specific instruments in particular styles.

I wouldn't care to wager on the exact proportion, but I'm certain that a substantial percentage of the American population has no idea what bluegrass music is. If you mention Bonnie & Clyde or the Beverly Hillbillies, folks of my generation will get the drift, but most people just haven't had the exposure that all of us take for granted.

I grew up in northern Virginia near D.C. when that area was a hotbed of bluegrass. The Red Fox Inn had bluegrass every night, Buzz Busby was everywhere, the Country Gentlemen were hot on the scene, and there was bluegrass on the radio. My little high-school rock band used to split the bill with bluegrass bands. Our bass player's dad helped get the patent for the Scruggs-Keith tuner.

With all of that exposure, I still wouldn't have known to call that string-band music "bluegrass." Until I was in my late teens and really started paying attention, it was just mountain music or banjo music or--forgive me--hillbilly music. I figured out that the funny little guitar was a mandolin after a while, but it wasn't obvious at first.

And I'm sure a substantial portion of the population would be equally ignorant about a whole bunch of other regional idioms--Cajun, Norteño, New England contradance, Irish, etc.--even though there are ample opportunities to hear and discover more about those styles.

That's why a simple question at a gig is a great opportunity to turn someone on to something they might learn to treasure.

Just one guy's opinion.

PK

[Bill Van Liere]

Understood Paul

It is likely that many people on this thread never heard of the band Open House.

[Santiago]

Back when I was playing violin, a friend -- who apparently loved music -- would always ask me to "strum." Used to drive me nuts with that. No matter how many times I tried to explain that you don't strum a violin, he couldn't grasp it. And he was otherwise pretty intelligent.:p

[pickinpox]

I can't and don't claim authorship of this snappy comeback but I saw it posted on the Mandolin Cafe Forum a few years back. I still think it is one of the best.


Q. Is that a ukulele?

A. Shuure atsa mekelele, whaddya think, I steal it?

[hangblague]

That sounds suspiciously like Chico Marx.

[Mandolusional]

My grandma called the other day and in that grandmotherly, caring way, mentioned she'd heard I was studying the ukelele and added with some surprise that she didn't even know I had one. #I told her she's still sharp as a tack and is absolutely right, I don't have a ukelele, but I do play the mandolin! # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[saltybrian]

at least you dont play mandola. or octave mandolin as you call it across the pond. not only do most other musicians not know what i play - those of us who play it cant agree what it's called either

[Tim2723]

Actually, we call a mandola a mandola. #It's the second largest of the mandolin family and is the mandolin equivalent of the viola. #It's the one tuned CGDA.

What do get confused are the octave mandolin, the bouzouki (particuarly the flat-top version often called an Irish Bouzouki), and the cittern. If you're playing a roughly guitar-sized instrument with four double courses tuned GDAE an octave below the mandolin/violin, the only thing you shouldn't call it is a mandola.

[MandoSquirrel]

4th largest. Forget the Mandocello & Mandobass? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

That's if you don't count Zouks & Citterns as Mando family.

[Tim2723]

Opps, should have said 'next' largest. My bad!

[mandogrrl]

I'm sure that everyone who posted didn't know what a mandolin was at some point in their lives. I have had people ask me about my little guitar. In New England, there are a lot of people that are new to bluegrass music.
One comment that really cracked me up was when a neighbor of mine told me that she loved bluegrass music because it is such "happy music". It's the darn banjos, they make even murder ballads sound happy. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[saltybrian]

see what i mean? we DO call it a mandola (GDAE tuning, same scale as a short scale tenor banjo). i bought it as a mandola (as labelled by the maker) and i call it a mandola. it s a different application of terms.

[strings10]

I don't mind people asking what I play. #I don't mind the "little guitar" comments, or, "Is that a ukelele?" #It's when people insist once, and then insist repeatedly, that the instrument I'm holding is the same one as Tiny Tim played.

Here on Long Island people have had little exposure to anything other than what's sold in shopping malls, so around here the mandolin is generally a mystery.

[Celtic-Grass]

I think people so rarely see live musicians these days (apart from rock bands in bars) that they are excited to see what makes the sounds that come out of their car radios. At the Celtic/Old Tyme session I play, people not only ask about my mandolin (F-style) but also about the tin whistles, squeeze boxes, irish flutes and bodrans Heck, even one fellow said he had never seen a fiddle in person before. ("so what's the difference between that and a violin?") And you should hear the buzz when the lass with the ullian pipes comes to play! (hee hee little pipers joke there) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
yeah, it can get kind old at times but, really, who here doesn't like talking about their instrument? Tell 'em as much as they want to know... They may just buy you a pint o' Guinness for your trouble.

[hendrix2]

My grandfather had played the mandolin when he was young (60 years ago). And when I showed him my mandolins he did not reconize those as mandolins. He thought a mandolin always had to had a bowled back. So I think that is a first big misconception people make.
Here in Belgium there's almost now bluegrass scene so I've met only a few people who knew that the instrument I play is a mandolin. All the others ask if it's:
-a ukulele
-a banjo
-someone asked me if it was a bassguitar?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gifhttp://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif (because it had 4http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? strings, I thought my mando had 8...)
-a little guitar
-...

But I don't mind if they don't know what it is. I like to talk about mandolins so that gives me a reason to tell them about mandolins.:D

[Tim2723]

see what i mean? we DO call it a mandola (GDAE tuning, same scale as a short scale tenor banjo). i bought it as a mandola (as labelled by the maker) and i call it a mandola. it s a different application of terms.
Gee Brian, now that you've said that, I DO see just what you mean. #No wonder there's confusion. #What's that old saying? #Two countries seperated by a common language?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

With all respect to a manufacturer's label, the standard four members of the mandolin family mimick the primary four of the violins: #mandolin, mandola, mandocello, mandobasso. #The prefix 'mando' refers to manual (played with the hand rather than a bow). The other members of the family are additions that gain us certian advantages in certain situations.

Nevertheless, a mandola is the instrument slightly larger than a mandolin and tuned a fifth lower at CGDA. #It's a fairly standarized, widely recognized definition. #Your GDAE instrument would most commonly be called an octave mandolin on this side of the Pond. #An interesting problem indeed. #But I hope you're enjoying the music despite the confusing names!! #Play long and prosper!

[Domhnall]

Before every show, Andrew Collins of the Creaking Tree String Quartet says: "I'm Andrew Collins, and this is a Mandolin". I've always considered that the best way to deal with it.

[Bertram Henze]

With all respect to a manufacturer's label, the standard four members of the mandolin family mimick the primary four of the violins: mandolin, mandola, mandocello, mandobasso. The prefix 'mando' refers to manual (played with the hand rather than a bow). The other members of the family are additions that gain us certian advantages in certain situations.
That's where it's only just beginning to get complicated. The OM does not fit into this classic family, so the mandola/mandolin question is on what you base your naming. But the word "octave" is also confusing. I remember talking to a dealer about an OM I was interested in, and he pointed out that this particular octave mandola (this is Europe) was, despite the name, tuned in unisons, not in octaves http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I'm glad I don't play cittern, because here in Germany you have the choice to say the English word which sounds like "zittern" (which means "to tremble") or try to translate to "Zither" (which is a completely different instrument remotely resembling an autoharp).

Bertram

[Martin Jonas]

With all respect to a manufacturer's label, the standard four members of the mandolin family mimick the primary four of the violins: #mandolin, mandola, mandocello, mandobasso. #The prefix 'mando' refers to manual (played with the hand rather than a bow). The other members of the family are additions that gain us certian advantages in certain situations.

Nevertheless, a mandola is the instrument slightly larger than a mandolin and tuned a fifth lower at CGDA. #It's a fairly standarized, widely recognized definition. #Your GDAE instrument would most commonly be called an octave mandolin on this side of the Pond.
That's a rather parochial point of view. What you describe is "standard" only in the USA. The name "mandola" originally referred to an Italian instrument. In Italy, and in the rest of Europe and Japan, the word "mandola" still generally applies to the GDAE instrument. The mandola sections in European mandolin orchestras play GDAE, not CGDA. When the famous Italian luthier Luigi Embergher tried to to introduce a plucked instrument quartet that mirrors the bowed string quartet, he coined the name "mandoliola" for the CGDA instrument, as the name mandola was already taken.

The situation in the UK is a bit confused now, because of the influx of American music styles and instruments. In mandolin orchestras and ensembles, "mandola" still universally refers to the GDAE instrument, whereas in folk and bluegrass music, an instrument called "mandola" may be either tuned GDAE or CGDA. Because of this confusion, people sometimes try to clarify the meaning by using the expressions "octave mandola", "tenor mandola" or "alto mandola", but as I've heard the expression "tenor mandola" used to describe CGDA as well as GDAE instruments, this doesn't really help. Don't get me started on "bouzouki"...

Martin
PS: "Mando" does not refer to "manual". It comes from the Italian word "mandorla" meaning "almond" and refers to the body shape of a bowlback mandolin.

[Tim2723]

I wasn't trying to be parochial, but I probably could have said it better. The four primary sizes of the instrument are the same where ever you go, only the names get switched. Is there some country where a violin is called a viola? Maybe there is, but it wouldn't change the instrument. I'd always understood that the mandola was the original instrument and the other names derived from it; mandolin being the diminutive of mandola. If that's true, then why do we add prefixes to mandola in order to describe it? I could see other sizes havng confusing names, but the mandola should remain the mandola, shouldn't it?

Thanks for the correction of the derivitive of the name. I was told the wrong thing years ago and had believed it all my life. Live and learn, right?

[Tim2723]

Here's another thing I'm confused about. I've only seen two mandobasses in my life, but I've seen several old photos of them (for some reason usually played by very stern-faced women). The two I saw were Gibsons from the early 20th century. The photos seemed to be about the same. I've never seen a bowlback mandobass, nor a picture of a European mandolin orchestra with a mandobass that didn't look suspiciously like a giant Gibson A style with an oval hole.

That has always led me to believe that the mandobass was a product of Orville Gibson's eccentricity. I'm going to assume I'm wrong about that, but what is the real answer?

[Martin Jonas]

The four primary sizes of the instrument are the same where ever you go, only the names get switched.
That's precisely the point: no, the four primary sizes are not the same wherever you go. In Europe, the CGDA instrument didn't exist at all (except for rare examples such as Embergher's mandoliola) until it was imported from the US fairly recently.

Parallels with the viola only take you so far: the mando family of instruments is just as old as the violin family. Instead of saying "the mandola should be tuned CGDA because that's the same tuning as the viola" you might just as well say "the viola should be tuned GDAE, because that's the same tuning as the mandola".

Martin

[Tim2723]

I think I see where we're at crossed points. #To my way of thinking, if you have a viola and tune it CGDA it's a viola. #If you tune it GDAE it's still a viola. #If you tune it GDGD it's still a viola. #To me, the tuning is irrelevant to the name of the instrument. #For example, I've never met a guitarist who re-tunes his instrument and then calls it something else. #It remains a guitar.

I've played mandolins made in several European countries, and they're all called mandolins and are roughly 24" long, give or take. #The next biggest one is around 30" long, give or take, and no matter how it's tuned or what it's called, it's still the next biggest mandolin. #I thought everyone called that a mandola. #Are you saying that in Europe there is no 30" long instrument except those imported from the US?

Let me ask it another way as well. #If I were a European playing my 24" long instrument tuned GDAE I would call it a mandolin. #But if I changed the tuning to CGDA, I would now call it a mandola? #Or would I play a 24" long GDAE instrument and call it a mandola depending on what part it played in the orchestra? Do I have it or am I still missing it?

Additionally, if the four primary sizes of instruments are not the same whereever you go, then what are the four primary mandolin sizes of Europe?

Sorry for being so obtuse, but this is a lot more interesting than my original question that started this thread!

[Steve G]

I tell them it's a paddle. Goes over big at the airport. Sometimes I'll make up a name for it like "a zyborg."

[sanjuan]

Sometimes I tell them I washed my guitar & it shrunk. But then I tell them it's a mandolin & if they seem intersted & there's time, I give them a bit of the Gibson flat back, mandolin orchestra, potato bug spin history & the mandolin cafe website. Most people seem to appreciate that. I remember asking questions about quite a few things that I'm familiar with now & appreciated others taking the time to give me an explanation & so I try to pass that along.

[Paul Hostetter]

Tim –

Etymologically, the English names for orchestral string instruments don’t derive from anything that’s size-specific. They different in any language:

English French Italian German
Violin - violon - violine - Geige oder Violine
Viola - violon alto - viola - Bratsche
Cello - violoncelle - violoncello - Violoncello

The mandolin family copies this model.

Martin’s quite right: in European mandolin orchestras, the mandola (by whatever name) is usually tuned an octave below a mandolin. My friend Tony (in the red bow tie) played a roundback Martin mandola which he always tuned GDAE. I asked him if he was playing viola (alto) clef and he said of course, he just transposed in his head. No big deal. I asked him if it wouldn’t have been easier to tune it CGDA, and he said no, and besides, he tried it once and didn’t like the sound.

http://www.lutherie.net/aurora_1937.jpg

[Paul Hostetter]

Mandobasses come in all shapes and sizes:

http://www.lutherie.net/calace.mando-bass.jpg

http://www.mandolin.be/history/jpg/1924lanapolitaine.jpg


You can take that to the bank:

http://www.lutherie.net/mandolin.bank.jpg

[Paul Hostetter]

If you have a viola and you’re speaking English and you tune it CGDA it's a viola. If you tune it GDAE in violin pitches, it’s a violin. If it’s tuned an octave lower, it’s a tenor viola or sometimes called a tenor violin. Strad and others made them and they’re usually larger than the violas most humans play.

The larger mandolins go by an assortment of names beside mandola. Liuto cantabile, for example.

http://www.calace.it/images/foto_old.jpg

It’s really best not to get rule-obsessed and too hung up on specific meanings of words, because there have long been too many people with funny ideas and bevies of adherents.

[Paul Hostetter]

One more picture of an odd mandobass, made by Lyon and Healy:

http://www.lutherie.net/apollon.band.jpg