David grisman concert

[mandolindude04]

I was at the Boulder Theater this past Friday evening to see the David Grisman Quintet. This concert was a birthday gift from my wife. We ended up leaving though at the intermission. The show started at 9pm, and since I am now over fifty years old, and still have to get up early each morning for work... needless to say we were up past our bedtime. I was disappointed somewhat, first the crowd at the theater was noisy. I am old school I guess, if a group is playing, the people who are paying to listen should be listening, and not talking on cell phones etc. Secondly, during the first set, they played no bluegrass, it was all "dawg" music, which sounds like some hippy dippy left coast jazz stuff, that I don't get. However, I do have to say, that even though the musical style doesn't do anything for me personally, the musicianship of the quintet is really quite amazing. Maybe after the intermission they played music that was more to my liking, but I can't say. I did get a CD of the DGBX, and I really like it. I was at Mandofest in 2004, and 2005, and I really enjoyed hearing Mike Black, The Neptune Group, Don Sternberg, Mike Marshall, Josh Pinkham, etc. I thought all of them played as good or better than the Dawg! But that's just my opinion. Is there ever going to be anymore Mandofests? It's the one time a year that I have an excuse to go back east to Kansas.

[Ken Sager]

Hi Thomas,
I had a similar experience Thursday night at a Dawg concert in Salt Lake City. Sam Bush opened the show with his band and they were loud and on fire. They're pretty much a rock and roll band anymore. It was a hoot.

Then, Grisman's band started. They were MUCH quieter and I realized they had a different sound guy. He had the levels much lower. I don't know why, unless that's all the gain they could get using instrument mics on stage without feeding back. Bush plugged in, Grisman played to mics.

Having seen the DGQ several times before I knew what music to expect and wasn't disappointed there at all. It's his jazz/gypsy group and that's what you get when they play. I wouldn't expect any bluegrass tunes, except maybe one or two in passing perhaps.

So, imagine 15,000 or so people talking loudly so they can hear themselves over the music. They were talking that way through Bush's set, too, but the music was loud enough to cover up the audience noise.

Keep in mind this was a FREE concert, so nobody had an investment in seeing the show other than simply showing up. These free concerts are notorious for simply being gathering places rather than musical events. I would have been upset had I paid for a ticket and not been able to hear the concert.

Oh Well.

Another oh well... MandoFest has been canceled and I understand there are no plans to revive it. I miss it, too. Evan Marshall, Mike Marshall, Mike Compton, Don Stiernberg, John Reischman, Butch Baldassari and others. They were fantastic events and I'll miss MandoFest for a long time.

Best,
Ken

[AlanN]

Everyone has different expectations, I guess. If I were to see the dawg, I would expect dawg music, maybe a few grassy tunes, as the poster above said.

And Sam opening for Dave? I guess; certainly could work the other way around, too. I love Sam Bush's mandolin playing. I won't go see the Sam Bush Band live, though.

[SternART]

<<hippy dippy left coast jazz stuff>>

Yeah, baby! That's the good stuff!

[MandoBen]

You have to remember when the Dawg plays with his D.G. Quintet you get all Dawg music, when he plays with the D.G. Bluegrass Experience then you get all bluegrass. Two completely different bands, one great mandolin player.

[mandolindude04]

"Hippy Dippy left coast Jazz stuff". It probably wasn't the best choice of words on my part....However, I grew up with bluegrass. I grew up listening to C&W, and Bluegrass. Rock and Roll was considered sinful in the church I grew up in in the bible belt state I grew up in. I heard a lot of the old bluegrass hymns, and sung them in church too. Some of DG's stuff that is Dawg music I really like. I saw the movie Greatful Dawg, and liked it. Maybe it was just people being rude and talking during the show, I don't know...I think anyone deserves to be listened too. Maybe it's just because I've attended the symphony at Boettcher Concert Hall, and the attenders there seem to be more polite.

[AlanN]

Yeah, I do not like talkers, be it at a concert, movie, whatever. And if you ask people to stfu, they look at you like you're the bad 'un.

[pjlama]

stfu http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Alan, that's a good one. I hate talkers too. Too bad you didn't love the show but since you're only over fifty you'll catch a few more good ones before they throw dirt on you.

[dzen]

I saw The Quintet some years back. I went because I've always loved Dawg Music. Had the same experience with a loud audience though. Grisman even politely suggested that people pipe down a little but it didn't do any good. Seems like highly amplified music, which I love as much as anybody, has pretty much destroyed music hall etiquette, 'cept for classical folks.

[Dan Cole]

After my first experience at a Dawg concert I decided I'm never going again unless its in a concert hall and I have a seat. The first time the stage was stormed by a bunch of dope smoke dervishes who ruined it. The next time was at a local concert hall. I had a seat for me and the misses and it was a totally different crowd. Awesome!

One must remember, The David Grisman Quintet in NOT Bluegrass. A bluegrass fan will be disappointed. A mando fan will love it.

[james condino]

Me and another "hippy dippy left coast jazzer" before the Chappel Hill show a couple of months ago. David is THE reason I started playing and later building mandolins. Some days I'm seated in the highbrow section, others I'm dancing in the pit with "those types"....


j.
www.condino.com

[delsbrother]

After my first experience at a Dawg concert I decided I'm never going again unless its in a concert hall and I have a seat. #
My first DG concert was in a hall with seats. At the start of the first tune the two Deadheads in front of me got up and started dancing. After about 5 songs, they moved to the aisle. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Yonkle]

<Comment removed for violation of board posting guidelines>

[Mattg]

I was at the same concert in Boulder. The Boulder Theater stinks for that kind of music. They designed the theater for standing and dancing. The standing room is up front in front of the few seats on the main floor and it makes it hard to see the stage. Most of the CU kids were standing, talking loudly and mostly not paying attention. We went up to the balcony for the second set and folks up there were focused on the performance. The balcony is cramped and smells like pee.

HOWEVER, I was thrilled to see the DGQ. WOW!! I've listed to Dawg for years but to see him live is amazing. The flutest, drummer, bassest and guitarist were all top notch and the Dawg showcased them at every turn. They all conversed with each other musically throughout every song and were very tight and seamless.

I loved the flute, but that's just me.

[keenan]

I totally agree with you Thomas about how fans could be more considerate at David Grisman's Quintet concerts. I'm from Columbus, OH and the last time the Quintet came here was for a New Year's Eve show and they were opening up for some amateur "jam band." The audience was completely rude and yelled out obsenities during the show. needless to say Grisman looked frustrated and I haven't see him in Ohio ever since. Also, Grisman's music is different to take in than most accessable music but if you give it a chance you'll find that it's actually quite genius as far as the arrangements are concerned (not to mention the amazing musicians he has performing with him). And sure Marshall and Steirnberg might be more crowd pleasing to the ear but certainly it is unfair to think that they are just "better". All of these guys bring something new to the "potluck" of music everyday. That's the beauty of diversity in music. Have you ever been to the Mandolin Symposium? Talk about a melting pot and the people that are present are there to listen or you would be unhip otherwise! Check it out!

[duuuude]

You say "hippy dippy left coast jazz stuff" like it's a bad thing.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MandoJump]

I was also at the Bush/Grisman show in Salt Lake on Tursday night. After seeing Sam's band tear the city down with their amazing set, I had very high expectations for Dave. It is clear David and his qunitet are very fine musicians but could not keep the crowd interested for even half of his set. Ideally, I'd like to see Grisman get back to some Bluegrass music.

[testore]

I was at that show and I just have to say that the crowd is to blame entirely. It is a great venue for electric music and to meet people to get loud and drunk with. I've seen DG there twice and both times where dissappointing only because of the people at the show. David didn't like it much either, said it was hard for them on stage to hear themselves over the crowd. His new guitar player was AMAZING however and held my interest. He is Davids equal and it really showed that night. They sound like a great jazz quintet and less Latin influence(obviously).
Gary

[Truckadero]

I was at the Salt Lake Show also. As reported above, Sam whipped the crowd into a frenzy. Then Dawg came out with the Quintet. I was ready for the usual great "hippy dippy left coast jazz stuff" that is David G's chosen thing this summer. However, the crowd was not. Blame it on Sam's energetic set...the "free" setting, the crowds age and inebriation...whatever. David's groove seemed to be forced this show. After two or so songs he tried to appeal to the crowd by saying..."you all keep yelling for us to turn up...we are just playing these little acoustic instruments up here....we can't turn it up...but you all can turn it down!" Needless to say it didn't work. The Quintet moved on and did what they do...as most in the crowd did the same.

I was lucky enough to catch David's set at Snowmass Co earlier this summer, where the scene was much more conducive to his groove. I guess you need to pick your venue and crowd. I am sure many had a great time and a different experience in Salt Lake...experience being very a very subjective and personal thing.

To "Yonkle"...I suggest just buying the DVD from here on out. Might be my 48 year old derrier dancing in front of you at the next show.

[mandolindude04]

Wow, talk about feedback! No I haven't been to the Mandolin Symposium. And yes the quintet are awesome musicians. David Grisman is a musical genius. I'm thinking after reading some of the messages that perhaps it was the venue and the crowd. Someone said the balcony smelled like pee. It did. I came home and washed all my clothes, as there may have been other body fluids present there as well. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

BTW, I did buy a mandolin yesterday at Guitar City. It's an Epiphone "F" style. I had bought a Johnson "A" style on ebay for $70. in 2004. I gave it to my daughters this past Fathers Day. I figure if I can play a couple of simple tunes from my Dix Bruce book and CD pkg. then I'm doing good. Mandolin playing is fun, and my youngest daughter is really getting in to it.

I apologize for the "hippy dippy jazz from the left coast" comment.

[Enigmatic Recluse]

David Grisman's name appeared next to Jerry Garcia's name on albums and marquees. That means that there are always going to be hippies dancing at his shows. I'm not sure that David Grisman is a whole lot happier about that than some of you seem to be (h elikes them there I think, but he wishes they would try to blend in), but that is just the way it is (to quote someone else who will always have hippies dancing at his shows thanks to an association with Jerry and the Boys). Fortunately, there are plenty of other bands to go see.

[delsbrother]

I don't have a problem with dancing at concerts - just don't block my view. Isnt' that what mosh pits are for? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif My point in bringing it up - you shouldn't think that going to see an act in a concert venue with a seat guarantees you a symphony-hall-quiet crowd.

Re: Dawg's reaction. At the concert I was commenting about, eventually the dancers started hearing it from some of the people behind them. They appealed to Grisman to intervene...

Hippie Chick: "Aw, cmon, we want to dance! Can't we dance?"

Dawg (ruefully): "I dunno. Can you dance?"

[mandomurph]

Sounds like the same noisy inconsiderate crowd that was at the Teluride Festival this year.

[AlanN]

It must be tough for the dawg, and he's been fighting that battle for decades. I have an old show from an outdoor Alaska venue, probably 1982 or so. He implores the crowd basically to pipe down. They don't.

[Santiago]

We need a separate forum to discuss "Hippy Dippy Left Coast Jazz" or HDLCJ, but that diminishes the contributions of us Hippy Dippy Right Coast Jazz afficionados.

[Bob Wiegers]

saw DGQ and Bela Fleck at the Ryman a while ago. not surprisingly, nearly everyone there was quite attentive. awesome stuff.

saw Thile at a free show recently. lots of noise from the crowd. you get what you pay for.

[SternART]

HDLCJ formerly known as Dawg music.......
personally I don't think it will stick http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[woodwizard]

I dig Sam & the Dawg both equally. They are my mando heroes. And if you know REALLY know them you know what kind of show you're gonna get when you go not counting crowd stuff.

[theBlood]

Grisman is quite strongly attached to mic usage and my guess would be that his band members must abide. The poor guitar guy was having a hell of a time on his solos in the show I saw, which was medium noisy.

He's also a strong devotee of the preservation of pure bluegrass and supports the efforts of the band, the David Grisman Bluegrass Experience, playing mostly on the west coast.

The DG quintet is attempting to tap into different markets as well as provide a place for the nurture of the Dawg music which has become something of a genre of its own. I believe that the draw he can get with this group is a good bit larger than what most name bluegrass groups can do. His reputation is quite widespread, and a lot of those people have no interest in bluegrass per se.

Most people give him a lot of credit for not only taking a different path but making it work to an impressive degree. That's pretty unique in the arts. And still, he's doing a lot of things to preserve and nurture interest in bluegrass as well, so I think some credit is due there, too.

John

[Evan Mahoney]

Has Grisman ever had another mandolinist in his band that wasn't already a name of their own? Did Bill Monroe ever employ another mandolinist in one of his bands?

[entau]

I saw DGQ with Joe Craven - who is a dynamite mandolinist as well as fiddler - but at that show he mostley played violin case (true!) - it was the Dawg 90 tour

of course Todd Phillips was not known for mandolin playing but he was the orginal playing 2nd mando- my understanding is Todd was a mando student of David's back in Berkley.

then Mike Marshall picked up the role when "Champagne Bill Amatnek left the group and Todd P took over the Bass"

I think Craven mostly did the 2nd Mando after that -
ussually it was just Dawg only on the mando- with guitar , flute, bass, violin case, salt shaker ect...

as for places to see Grisman - I've seen him at the Music Hall in Troy at least 3 times - the audience is always well behaved and in that place you don't really even need amplification
I think DG likes that hall.

[Fretbear]

Presenting purely instrumental music will always be an uphill battle. It may be a hard truth to non-singers like the Dawg, but people are simply and strongly moved and touched directly by vocal performances, and non-musicians have always had a limited tolerance for purely instrumental music. The best advice I ever heard from a mandolinist was Doyle Lawson's admonition to "Please learn to sing".

[Evan Mahoney]

of course Todd Phillips was not known for mandolin playing but he was the orginal playing 2nd mando- my understanding is Todd was a mando student of David's back in Berkley.
Thats what I was wondering about. It seems like Grisman is in a place he could do something like Monroe and even please some other people with some vocals, no? Does he still give lessons anywhere?

[entau]

I doubt he gives lessons -
he has sung on a few tunes -
"I ain't broke but I'm badly bent" maybe on the rounder album

he does a duet with Tony Rice on "salty dog" from "home is where the heart is"
I think he might sing "I'm my own grandpa" on that one as well.

I think dawg once said - "why should I sing when I have Tony Rice right there"
of course that was before Tony had his throat problems.h

singing is not really David's forte -
I think above and beyond playing he prides his skills at composition -
second might be Band Leader/ music producer
both of which he has been very succesful at

though perhaps not entirley responisble - David was very influential on promoting people like Bela Fleck, Mike Marshall, Mark O'Connor- I'm sure the list is much larger than that - but all those folks went on to put a major stamp on the acoustic music scene.

So while Monroe put a lot of very talented young bluegrass musicians in the spot light as Bluegrass boy members -
David has help luanch entire new genres of music into the main stream.

[Michael H Geimer]

Audience Noise:

I once saw The Del McCoury Band at The Great American Music Hall in SF (mid-sized Victorian theatre). The band used two condensers and worked them to create the mix.

I was maybe ten feet from the stage. Drunk Drunker the Drunk-ettes were hanging out at the bar all the way in the back. I could clearly hear their conversation through the mains!. So you know the band could hear them, too.

I'm sure if those people knew what was going on they'd be embarrassed.

[SternART]

<< Does he still give lessons anywhere? >>

The Mandolin Symposium, each year at UC Santa Cruz!

[Crowder]

It's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Part of me says that if Dawg has been fighting the crowd noise issue since (at least) 1982, he would've been wise to do something to combat it a long time ago. Ditching mics would be one way to do it; choosing venues and co-headliners more carefully would be two more. Nickel Creek used mics exclusively when they were playing small halls, but once they started playing for larger crowds they compromised by using pickups and mics together, which Bush does from time to time as well. IMHO it makes NO sense for Bush's band to play ahead of the DGQ. Bush's band is near-electric and he always puts on a high-energy show (though it's not my cup of tea).

Another side of me realizes how hard it must be to make money as a touring band with a limited audience, so I can understand why they would book in less-than-ideal venues and situations.

[jim simpson]

Grisman? Can't stand that guy! Not really - I've been fortunate to see him a number of times as
The David Grisman Quintet as well as Doc Watson & David Grisman, Old & In The Gray &
DGBX, David Grisman Bluegrass Experience. I have enjoyed each and every performance.

[Mattg]

Even though I had complaints about the crowd at the Boulder Theater, the sound was great.

It was also great to see Sam Grisman on bass and Dominic Leslie on mando as the opening act. A couple of great teens doin' it up just fine!!