June apple / train on the island

[Michael H Geimer]

Listening to a collection of banjo/fiddle duets, I always assumed a certain tune was 'June Apple'. I liked the way they played the tune.

I went to pick up a few licks from the recording, and discovered it is titled as "Train on the Island". A little Googling just muddied my understanding.

Anyone have background on if they are the same tune, or perhaps know if one is a variant on the other?

Thanks!

[John Flynn]

The Fiddler's companion has two cross references for these tunes. Basically all it says is that the two tunes are related, the lyrics from both tunes track with each other and sometimes people have been known to use verses from one as later verses in the other. Although a running joke in my area is that you can take the lyrics from "June Apple" and use them with any old time tune. We did a band practice once where we got silly and started singing June Apple lyrics to every tune in our set just to see if we can do it.

Another fun thing a friend of mine can do is do a very credible job of singing the lyrics to the The Who's "Pinball Wizard" to just about any old time tune, including June Apple.

[Skanderbeg]

I looked at my tab for both tunes and while they are sort of similiar, they appear to be two distinct tunes.

[Michael H Geimer]

There was a thread over at the BHO talking about June Apple. One person commented on how boring and un-melodic the tune can sound in a jam, but that one night he heard folks jamming on a tune that was familiar and compelling. It turned out to be June Apple.

The times I've jammed to June Apple, no one has really known the melody, and it's always ended up sounding like a Jam Band jam.

The recording I'm listening to is not a famous one, but the version of Train on the Island they play is very nice, has a strong melody and a lot of mood and character. I'm guess I'm looking for clues about how to get my playing to have more character. Any advice or insights will do!

OT: Pinball Fiddle Tune! Sounds like a fun game!

[Alex Orr]

Doc Watson has a really good recording of it. I like the tune but I can see how it may actually work better when a handful of people are playing it. The B part IMO is somewhat generic, but the opening salvo on the A-part was always pretty unique to my ears.

[acousticphd]

This is a little strange to me as I (think I) know both tunes and I don't think they sound especially alike, although I can see how you could easily bend the words of one to the other tune.

I have never seen a written version of Train on the Island in a tune book, but in 3 of the 4 versions that I've heard, the structure and tune length is shorter and different from the 32 bar structure of June Apple (2 8-bar A parts, 2 8-bar Bs).

Bruce Molsky and Rayna Gellert&Susie Goehring both recorded simialar versions combining the tune with the song vocal.
There a a couple ways one could assign parts to their versions, but the way I hear it, it comes out to 20 bars, like this:

A part (4 bars) #("Train on the island, thought I heard her squeal...")
B1 part (8 bars) ("go and tell my true love, I can't hold the wheel; go and tell my true love, I can't hold the wheel;..")
B2 part (8-bar) Instrumentally repeats B1. #

These tune arrangements have I-IV-V chord accompaniment and melodically are very different from June Apple.

On Todd Phillips' CD In the Pines, they do 2 versions back-to-back; one like the above, immediately followed by a standard 32-bar bluegrass/fiddle tune version, which does bear quite a bit of resemblance to June Apple, except it sounds major whereas June Apple is modal.

[allenhopkins]

One one Folk-Legacy album of the Golden Ring, Sara Grey plays the "A" part to June Apple of the banjo, while the group sings the Train On the Island verses to the "B" part. I prefer the Double Decker String Band's Train, which I guess Craig Johnson got from a WV fiddler. Melody's pretty far from June Apple.

[Don Christy]

You should hear Tony Williamson's version of June Apple on Sessions at McBane's Hill. Really great version.
Don