Pick question

[Matt Hutchinson]

Hi guys.

I have a real problem with my pick rotating when I strum so the point kind of swivels under my thumb. This means when I pick the point has almost vanished and I have to juggle it back round which is far from ideal!

I've tried various picks including:

Dunlop nylons (.73, .88 and 1mm)
Dunlop tortex triangular (1.14)
Dunlop jazz 2mm
Stubby 2mm
Stagg nylon 1.21
Dulop one with the 'gator on it .71
Tortex regular shape .73, .88, .96 and 1.14
Martin .88
Dunlop 500 .73, .88, .96
Dava - no idea what thickness

I can avoid the problem by strumming using the rounded end a la Tim O'Brien etc but can't get comfortable picking this way. To stop it happening I feel like I have to grip the pick WAY too hard.

Any thoughts? I thought I might try a Wegen pick?

Cheers,

Matt

[bgjunkie]

I used to have the same problem, but one I realized I got better tone (to my ears at least) with the rounded part of the pick, I just learned to play that way all the time. You might also try a trianle pick since it has three points and they are usually larger, so there is more pick to grip without increasing the pressure.

[swinginmandolins]

I had the same problem until I started using my index finger to control the pick more. I place it to where it is almost even with the tip. Now I can control what part of the pick I use. I can curl my index finger to get the rounder edge or straighten my finger to get the point. With this technique I able to keep a loose grip without the pick moving. This technique works with any pick I use. Lately this has been the Wegens(1.4mm), which with the holes and texture is the easiest pick so far to control. Also produces great tone. My second fav is the Jazzmando proplex 1.5.

[David Newton]

I don't know anyone else who does this, but because I do a lot of sanding in the shop, my fingerprints are usually smooth. I have a stick of "bat grip enhancer" a baseball player product, it is a sticky wax with rosin in it, and I rub a little either on the pick or between my thumb and finger before playing. I've had my stick for years, and 3/4 of it is still there.

[MikeEdgerton]

I carry a little Gorilla Snot (http://www.fqms.com/Gorilla_Snot_P12426C1049.cfm) for the days that my fingers are sweating. When I first started playing mandolin (previously I was a finger style guitarist) I had problems holding onto the pick. I used Gorilla Snot. Eventually I got better at controlling the pick. Also use the Golden Gate picks as all three corners are basically the same.

http://www.fqms.com/images/Product_Images/GS.JPG

[swinginmandolins]

I tried Gorilla Snot when I first started playing. It worked fine until it got hot then it just made the pick slip around even more.

[Steve-o]

Hey Matt,
I have a somewhat similar problem that I just posted under the technique section: http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=25&t=45949

You might want to follow it too. I recently picked up some Wegen TF-140s and really like them, but still have some trouble with pick shift/rotation. I am now trying to focus on my pick hand while playing rhythm and focus on adequate pick grip without a tight hand/wrist. Making slow progress.
- Steve

[earthsave]

Try drill some holes in some of the picks you like. Use the Wegen as a design guide.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Thanks everyone.

Steve-O : looks like the same problem you were experiencing, can't say I'm glad you have it too but it's good to know it's not just me. Good luck with it!

I think I'd like to work it our without having to use anything on the pick if possible (I can always try other stuff later on) but I will try drilling a few holes in one and see if that helps. Thanks for all the advice.

[swinginmandolins]

Matt,
I'm sure you will get it. I thought I was going to have to battle the pick and or worry about it rolling across the room my whole playing career, but finally I feel comfortable and confident in my technique. Just like everything else perfect practice makes perfect.

[Rick Cadger]

i find that two holes a little smaller than paper punch holes, drilled side by side, work better than the Wegen style bunch of small holes for anti-rotation grips - YMMV.


- edited for typo.

[8ch(pl)]

I use a 1/2 inch disk of sandpaper which is stuck to the center of the pick with 2 way tape. I make these by applying the tape to the back of a sheet of 240 or 280 Silicon Carbide paper, then punching the disk out with a punch and hammer. The hole punch that I use is what is used in the canvas trade to cut holes for grommets. Peel the tape back and stick it on the pick.

If you contact me through the message board and give me your mailing address I will send a dozen or so. A sheet of paper renders a couple of hundred.

[12 fret]

It may not be the pick or any lack of adhesive. You might try the simplest answer first which would be your grip. Changing where you place the pick within your grip might help. Try holding with the minimum pick tip showing without your knuckles getting in the way. If you are holding too far back, the torque of playing would move it easily.

[Santiago]

I like the Snarling Dog picks despite the name and graphics, because the sandpaper texture helps me keep them in place.

[mando.player]

FYI....Do not try and drill holes in a Tortis pick. I learned the hard way and no longer have a Tortis pick.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, Glen, I sent you a PM.

I tried drilling a few holes in one of the picks I have but doesn't seem to make too much difference. I've also discovered I seem to find it easier to grip a thinner pick which is slightly annoying as I prefer a thicker one for tone.

Still, all part of the learning curve you get with any new instrument and great to be able to get so much input from other players with more experience.

cheers

[mythicfish]

The "problem" is not with the pick ... holes, adhesive, sandpaper will only mask the problems of right-hand technique and prevent you from playing up to your potential.

Curt

[Timbofood]

.I have a friend that has very "Damp" hands and she used to use a product called"Stick-um" its for candles. Hardware store, pretty cheap stuff. Worked for her.

[8ch(pl)]

I know what you are saying Curt, however I have been using the sandpaper for several years and it works for me.

I am completely self taught, so all the bad habits that I taught myself are still there. The pick turning in my hand was annoying, now it is pretty much over and i just play.

[Steve-o]

Hey all,
I'm the other guy posting about the same problem. I haven't seen any discussion of pick attack angle. Could it be that the thicker picks tend to rotate more when the attack angle is 90 degrees to the stings (remember Newton's third law - for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction)? I have been experimenting with a more oblique angle (i.e. pointing the tip of my thumb toward the floor). I think I saw that on a John McGann DVD. Just curious if this is part of the problem.

[Bob A]

I rememer the old, tiny mando picks that used to have a thin slice of cork glued to the sides as a grip. Worked pretty well.

One guy I know swears by Pickboy picks. They have these nubs that look like the suckers on octopus tentacles on the gripping part.

I have a couple Wegens with holes drilled in them. They don't move much.

[Kevin Briggs]

I switched to the Dunlop Tortex 1.14s for this very reason. Then, when I got my Weber Fern, it felt better to play with something thicker. It was actually wierd. I never felt comfortable with a 1.5 pick until getting the Fern. I think it's because the action is so smooth. I used to prefer a 1.14 because I was battling rough action for a long time. My Bitteroot was very tight.

I now use the standard Pro-Plec 1.5 guitar pick. It's not the big triangle one, which, by the way, is the same big triangle pick Pro-Plec for the Jazz Mando pick.

Anyway, the Pro-Plecs don't have great traction, but I keep them stationary by adjusting my hand before I play. I actually try to turn the pick in a bit, meaning it points back towards the bridge very slightly. This way, the pick seems to stay put, like balanced or something.

[jim_n_virginia]

I had the same problem. Tried everything from punching holes in the pick to roughing the surface up with a knife.

I found these picks I like, it says Cool on them and I get the Xtra-heavy and it has a sand paper texture to it. They work perfectly for me.

[Alex Orr]

I actually have this problem more often when using the Wegen mando picks.

[Jason Holmes]

I do like the Wegens, though I use my Tortis picks most. I do find that the Tortis with its polished surface is a bit grippier.

[Andrew Faltesek]

Two of the picks I use for guitar playing may be worth a try if they have the shape and flex you like. One is an UltraCool (heavy), which has very small tactile dots on the grip area that are rubber-like and comfortable. The dots will wear off eventually if carried around in your pocket with change or even from lots of use. The other is by the same manufacturer and just called Cool (heavy), and has an applied synthetic grip with a texture sort of like sandpaper...OK but not as nice as the ultracool. They have an unusual metallic ring when dropped onto a hard surface.

It has been real hot all summer in Minnesota and smooth picks were hard to hold; so I tried the UltraCool and it worked pretty good.

[8STRINGR]

I've always used Dunlop Tortex 88mm (Green) picks to cure the same problem. But I've found that through musiciansfriend.com they carry a line of picks that have an "emory board" feel on the larger portion of the pick that prevents the slippage problem.

They're called "Snarling Dog Brain Pics" (item #110010 in their Search) available in all guages and sold in a tin box of twelve. I've never tried them myself but may purchase a pack to give 'em a test drive. Check 'em out, read the item description and Product Reviews about 'em. They may help your problem.

** Careful with your selection... "Tortex" picks have been my choice picks for some time because they also eliminate#the "clicking" noises that I was getting when using regular plastic picks. I'm not sure if these are the same material that's used in Tortex or if they're plastic picks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Rick Smith]

As Jason says, you might want to try a pick with a gloss. A lot of people seem to think that the glossy surface is easier to hold on to. I have been making custom picks for quite some time and some folks insist on having a rough grip, not unlike sandpaper while others want absolutely nothing to do with a rough surface. I suppose it boils down to personal preference.
You might be surpised to know the number on mando pickers that use the round shoulder, not the tip, of a standard guitar pick for mandolin.

[Matt Hutchinson]

I ordered some Wegen picks to try and I'm finding they help (I've gone for the big triangular ones which seem to sit in my hand better). Not only that they've almost doubled the volume of my mandolin and improved the tone no end.

I really didn't think a pick would make so much difference to my tone. From thinking they were expensive for a pick I've gone to thinking it's the best investment I've made in terms of instrument accessories!

[bradeinhorn]

at this point i almost don't enjoy playing the mandolin without the t-140. luckily your slippage problem brought you to them.:)

[earthsave]

I ordered some Wegen picks to try and I'm finding they help (I've gone for the big triangular ones which seem to sit in my hand better). Not only that they've almost doubled the volume of my mandolin and improved the tone no end.

I really didn't think a pick would make so much difference to my tone. From thinking they were expensive for a pick I've gone to thinking it's the best investment I've made in terms of instrument accessories!
I too have been trying out the M100 Wegen picks. However, I find it is too thin for me. It clicks considerably more on the strings and also tends to not cut through the strings like my heaving 2mm picks. D207 Dunlops. I do like that the Wegen is a cam shape. That is the only drawback of the D207 picks. If they rotate, I sometimes find myself picking with the shoulder.

Guess I shoulda got the M150, but I didnt see them until just a minute ago. I also noticed M200 and M250 are new according wegenpicks.com. Maybe I'll give them a shot if I happen upon them in the future.

[Jason Holmes]

M150s are really nice (IMHO), earthsave. I can see what you mean, the M100 seems like it would be too thin for my liking. As for the fatter ones though, I can't imagine a 2.0 or 2.5 out of Wegen's material, that's a lot of pick. I use my 1.7mm custom Tortis most of the time, which I love dearly, but I couldn't see going much thicker than that, unless dictated by style of music perhaps.

[DryBones]

I just got some Wegen M120's custom made and they fit me perfectly. A nice middle ground between the M100 and M150's

[Ivan Kelsall]

When i began playing Mandolin,apart from playing rhythm Guitar,where i use a triangular
Gibson pick which is quite big,i'd never used a pick for playing melody & i found it quite a challenge to stop the pick rotating as Matt's finding now. It wasn't until i relaxed my grip on the pick & began to hold it loosely,that the problem stopped. It seems a contradiction in terms but that's what did the trick for me.
# One thing i did try which helped at first,was to get a tiny piece of Blutak & flatten it thinly on the thumb side of the pick. The Blutak picks up the print on your thumb & along with it's ''Tackiness'',that stops the pick rotating,
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Saska

[AlanN]

A buddy just sent me a 6-pack of Dunlop 1.14. I normally don't even try new picks, but these things work! I turn it away from the point, and I could swear I'm using my old pick, tone-wise.

[JeffD]

From thinking they were expensive for a pick I've gone to thinking it's the best investment I've made in terms of instrument accessories!
Yea!

In terms of impact on tone for dollar expended, even high end picks are a bargain.

[mandobrando]

after the NC concert in charlotte a couple weeks ago, one of the break down guys gave me thile's pick. i kinda feel like i should frame it or something, but as of now i enjoy playing with it.

i recomend the wegen.

[epicentre]

I use HERCO (nfi) thumb/flatpick, heavy.

Works for me.

[Rocky Top]

I use Dunlop Ultex picks. A 1mm for guitar and 1.14mm for mando. They're made with a "no slip" surface and are easier to hold onto and keep in place. I highly recommend them. I hope that helps.

[Kevin K]

AlanN,
Those wouldn't happened to have the Rhino on them would they?

[AlanN]

Yes

[bgjunkie]

Hey Rocky Top, maybe that's a Tennessee thing. I use the same Ultex 1.0 and 1.14 for guitar and mando. I had never played guitar with a heavy pick, but like the added power. The ultex picks even warm up the tone on my Epiphone (a little).