Pickguard on a bowlback?

[Rhombuss]

Currently looking at an Italian bowlback on Ebay, but it looks like the top has had a little wear on the right side of the sound hole and fret board, so a pickguard was added (not sure at what point in time, looks somewhat recent - last 30 years?) that screws into the top at two locations. One beside the fretboard, and one a little to the right and below of the sound hole.

First of all, a pickguard on a bowlback looks strange. Second, is that typically how a pickguard is secured? Screws into the top? I'd be bidding on it as we speak, however I'm holding back because I know I'd remove the pickguard, yet having two holes in the top doesn't seem very desirable. The fact that it looked like an afterthought makes me wary of potential crack initiations once humidity variations come into the picture. Also, would having these two holes exposed have any detriment to the sound and resonance of the instrument?

Any thoughts? How have you guys addressed pickguards on bowlbacks in the past? Left them in place? Removed them and executed some top repairs?

[Jim Garber]

This is the one, right?

http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/ac/74/7b4a_3.JPG

First of all it is not strictly Italian as in country of origin. Yes Ciani was of Italian ancestry but he worked primarily in the US in new York City. He made some decent instruments and was the uncle of the famed John D'Angelico.

As to the pickguard: that one is completely out of place; the inlaid one is the original one and the attached one is ridiculous. If you get this mandolin relatively cheaply it would be worth it, even with a couple of small holes. I suppose those holes could easily be cosmetically filled. OTOH there are some other things to consider. I am not sure what is going on under the bridge. Possibly there was some shimming of the top there which looks odd and might affect the structure of the top.

BTW the link is here: Ciani mandolin (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330150733031)

Jim

[Jim Garber]

In fact, now that I look at this picture I can see what looks like some sinkage of the top:

http://i13.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/ac/74/7cf8_12.JPG

Unless cheap, I would stay away. It could be a real money pit to fix.

Jim

[Eugene]

I agree. I'd consider that one done for unless you're into doing the repairs yourself.

[Rhombuss]

Yep, that's the one. I didn't even notice the sinkage on the top. I wonder if it's just a distortion from the lens at that short distance. Purely speculation, but perhaps high tensile strings were installed and that's the reason for it caving in such a manner. It's a shame too, because the rest of the instrument appears to be in excellent condition. However, the appearance of the top behind the pickguard is a real turn-off. That and the holes from the screws. It's hard to imagine someone would rather screw in a random pickguard than try to restore the finish.

[Rhombuss]

For those that are curious, the seller sent me an image with the pickguard removed. I'm no wood expert, but the wear looks pretty superficial. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to restore it to match the adjacent surface. It almost seems like whoever did this intentionally wanted to penetrate through at points of inlay. Perfectly bare wood surface just beyond, but s/he went right through the sound hole inlay, and the original pickguard. :P

Pic (http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?7515382308.jpg)

[brunello97]

Eugene and Jim have been my gurus for entering the world of the bowl-and haven't steered me wrong yet. (Eugene, I'm playing the Martin now more than ever.) I'd trust them here.

Amazingly, ~$99 will still get you a fairly decent US made bowlback if you shop carefully on the ebay. No need to go after a death-valley top unless you want to tackle the repair (which is neither impossible, nor a slice a pie-and you are sure to get lots of advice here) or maybe if you've got an RC bug, which is understandable.

I have a Ciani/Galiano bowl myself which has a bit of sink the top-though much less than this one. It is bright, loud, with crisp bass-a pretty nice instrument all in all. I think I paid $60 on the ebay a couple years ago. It needed some major repairs on the bowl, which were fairly easily handled. I hope the top holds out.

Frank Ford posted in the 'repairs' section a great bit on a 'jack' that he made to raise up sinking archtops until he could rebrace them. A little easier way to go on an arch than on a bowl but worth checking out his work.

It does seem like a nice bowl construction-are those independent staves or larger ones subdivided with inlay? Just the same, I too would recommend doing the Burt Bacharach on this one.

Mick

[Martin Jonas]

Seems that this is much the same as what has happened to this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130135611533) bowlback: some repairer has added a raised pickguard that clashes violently with the existing inlaid pickguard and the overall looks of the instrument. On this one, they've also added a weird bridge that seems to come from an electric guitar and an even weirder tailpiece, and to top it off they call the entire concoction "Vinaccia". At least this pickguard seems to have been fixed the Gibson way, with a screw in the side rib and another in the fingerboard.

Martin