Getting on a list

[johnM]

####I also posted this on the "post a picture" by mistake.##

Well I’ve come to the knowledgeable members of the café once again for some insight to my constant MAS illness.

I want to buy “the” mandolin and I’ve been investigating some of the better known builders out there such as Brentrup, BRW, Daley, Poe, Mowry, Pomeroy etc. What would be not only the best mandolin but the best investment in what I would consider the upper range of builders out there?

I’m going to limit my price range to around 5K, knowing the year or two wait will allow me get the dough together.

I’m not in the position to try these builders out so I have to rely on their reputation, feel and more over the café resources for my decision. I’m also not afraid of the wait, I hear Daley’s have a 2 year wait with the others hovering around a year or less. So I’m not in a “hurry” but my thoughts are I’d like an upper end mandolin.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

JM

[Wesley]

I'm a very happy Brentrup owner. I gave Hans LOTS of details on the type of music I play and the type of mandolin I wanted to play it on. He built exactly what I wanted. My guess is that you will hear similar tales about a lot of other builders. Mine just happens to be about Hans Brentrup. I'm a happy man.

[JEStanek]

You may be better served asking folks who own one by these builders to describe their tone to you and get the one that appeals the most for what you're looking for. #When you have it down to one or two call them up and interview them for what it is you're looking for sound and looks wise. #Based on your gut and interactions give one the job. #Worry about the instruments worth down the road... down the road. #I'm working with two builder who have been great to talk mando's with and I feel I will get what I want out of the builds (thely be ready in a month and next year). #It's been very collaborative, fun and exciting. #Neither of these I have plans on ever selling (at the moment) and I hope never too. #I want them to go to my kids.

If I could afford it I wouldn't hesitate to consider those builder in that price range. #However, I think your price range for an F5 at $5K #may limit you from some of those you mentioned (there is a used Heiden A5 in the classified for greater than your budget - NFI). #All of the builders you mentioned have great reputations for solid instruments with great fit and finish. #Each one has his or her own style and sound as well as they have different goals in building. But what their work will be worth 5-10 years down the pike depends on a lot of factors. #Look at the classifieds and see what people are trying to sell used custom instruments for. #Often folks list the price of a new one being a bit more than the used price they are looking for.

It's odd to me to consider the purchase of one of these custom built instruments as an investment when you're gonna do your best ot have "THE" #insturment for your built. However other people have other goals and tastes may change. #You might just want to get a very clean used one by these folks and hold onto it and try to sell later. #I really doubt you would lose money on a subsequent sale of the used instrument from these builders. #If you really want THE instrument built for you, when you do select your builder be very clear and provide as many details as possible. #Give the luthier every advantage in knowing what you want. #Be honest with yourself too. And expect to pay for what your asking for.

I don't own nor have I played any of the instruments by the builders you listed and my advice here is worth what you paid for it.

Jamie

[johnM]

JEStanek

Good advise, your absolutely correct about selling the instrument. I'm not looking for an investment, I'm looking for the "holy cow" factor when I have this thing in my hands.

I just got off the phone with Gail Hester, (hester mandolins) and she seemed to really have building down to a science. She really knew the tone woods and how to get the tone out of the instrument. After the call I am really leaning in her favor.

JM

[hoffmannia2k7]

Washburn makes a great mandolin

[pjlama]

Since time is not an issue you can try and hook-up with owners of the builders on your short list and try them. Just post where you are and what you want to try, if you're within a reasonable drive go for it. If you wanted to try something I own and were willing to visit I'd be more than happy as I'm sure most members would love the opportunity to hang out for an hour or so and show off their baby. BTW I hear Hester builds a good one.

[cooper4205]

Will Parsons' wait list is only a few months and his varnished F5's come in right under $5k.

Parsons (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=43998)

[Nolan]

I've played a number of Hester mandolins and they were all very nice.

[johnM]

Yea, Gail was very impressive and very easy going. I really would like to see one of here instruments but her discriptions of the tone were very clear. She was able to get the message of the tone across to me. Believe me thats not an easy thing to do..................

But i'm going to look around and take my time.

[Jim Garber]

Forget the investment angle. Who cares if it is "THE" one? I second (or third) the suggestion of playing ones. The rest is just hearsay. What one person says is amazing tone may or may not appeal to you. Play as many as you can and try out as many as possible. No substitute for direct experience.

There are many more prominent builders than you mention in your price range.

And start saving your money now.

BTW you didn't say whether you wanted an F or and A or what (round or oval hole) etc.

Jim

Jim

[mythicfish]

"I want to buy “the” mandolin"

Good luck ... you'll need it if you put your money down on something yet to be built.

Curt

[Mando Medic]

Curt, good point about THE ONE not yet built. I feel that you should wait till you have the 5 grand then go through the cafe and try the used ones that come up for sale, and when you find THE ONE, buy it. So what if you have to pay shipping back and forth on a few, but then you'll know. Kenc

[F5G WIZ]

Don't know if you are aware of it but Andrew Poe lives probably about an hour or so from St Louis. In Columbia Missouri. Give him a call he may have something you can try out. I love mine and he has quite a range in his prices depending on the bells and whistles.

[Don Christy]

John,
I don't recognize your name, but it's possible we know each other. Do you play at the Folk School of St. Louis jams or the Wed night bluegrass jam in Webster Groves?

At any rate, there are instruments by several of the builders you mentioned in the hands of St. Louis players. I have a Pomeroy F4 and a Silver Angel F5 (Ken Ratcliff). I know of an Old Wave and several other customs (whose names I forget) in the hands of others.

PM me sometime if you want to get together and do a sampling.
Don

[steve V. johnson]

I didn't get a mandolin from one of the luthiers on your short list, but I have ordered custom instruments from other
luthiers, and it's a wonderfu, fun, creative process.

Establishing the dialogue in the first place is probably the most difficult, but if you have a clear set of criteria, specs, features
that you want in your instrument, that makes things easier. #Of course there are things that we don't forsee, and once you've got a good working relationship with the luthier, that's when things can get creative and collaborative.

These folks know a lot more than we do, from being immersed in the craft, and from working with a bunch of very different clients, and it's really fun to tap into those stores of knowlege.

Oh, and while my playing has changed a lot, I still have all of the instruments that have been built just for me. #I can't say without qualification that they are The Ones for me, but I'm certainly not considering letting them go. # Having said that, as I'm financially able, I -will- have others! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif There are still lots of ideas I'd like to see in wood'n'wire.

Enjoy,

stv

[red7flag]

I have 3 instruments that were made for me. The process of having an instrument made is wonderful. It feels much like getting a child. The Stanley had been a gem since I got it. Two had to go to David Harvey for major set up work. Of those, the Lebeda, has really developed into a fine instrument. A number of people on the cafe have commented that great builders are not necessarily great set up people. I found this out the hard way. I will say that the two instruments that needed set up should never have left their respective shops in the way they did.
Tony

[JeffD]

Well if you really have MAS, then you will:

1-Pursue "THE" mandolin, blind to the fact that it will only be "the next" mandolin.

2-Acquire what you think is "THE" mandolin, only to find it is "the latest" mandolin.

3-Go to step 1

[wayfaringstranger]

Custom instruments are great (my previous mando was custom-built for me, and my current one was custom built, but for someone else 10 years ago). If you want a 100% chance of being absolutely wowed by the instrument and its tone when you pick it up, though, buy a mandolin that is already built. If you pick it up and play it and you're absolutely knocked out, then you've found it. My custom-built mando was/is a very good instrument.

Of course, with my current (and definite keeper) instrument, I had to wait about a year from that "wow" moment until the previous owner decided to sell it (and I didn't get to choose the color or put the first scratches on it), but those things are small potatoes when you have something that just feels and sounds right in your hands.

[jim_n_virginia]

Curt, good point about THE ONE not yet built. I feel that you should wait till you have the 5 grand then go through the cafe and try the used ones that come up for sale, and when you find THE ONE, buy it. So what if you have to pay shipping back and forth on a few, but then you'll know. Kenc
I agree with Ken, save the 5K and buy used and get the best one you can get in the best shape. 5K won't get you a Brentrup F style anyways unless you wanted an A style.

Getting something new for 5K in F style will be somewhat limiting unless you go with smaller or unknown builders.

Also don't know if you like Gibson or not but I have met many players (Herschel Sizemore, Roland White, David McLaughlin etc.) who went to Gibson and basically designed their own mandolins and even picking out the wood used. I have played or checked out all these instruments and all were fantastic instruments. But also I think all were more than 5K I'm pretty sure.

Of the new builders I have admired Stanley, Kimble and Davis. Beautiful fit and finish.

But really all the builders you meantion do a good job. It's almost hard to get a BAD mandolin nowadays unless you don't know what you are doing.

I know I haven't been much help in suggestions but good luck in finding "the" mandolin. I have looked for 10 years and not had any luck yet ... heck I can't even find "the" strings that I like best!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Mandobar]

i think you need to ask hans about his prices, because i don't think his base price for an F is too far out of johnM's range- and be sure to ask him about the poor man's loar!!!!
as for set up- i've bought mandos from a variety of builders and hans and bob abrahms (trillium) do great set up work. the rest, well, it left a lot to be desired.

[Siminole]

Good Luck, John.....I just went through the same experience of finding the Craftsman/luthier for creating a new Mando for me. I spent weeks just comparing and reading and trying to educate myself, wringing my hands and squeezing my checkbook. This site and members were so helpful, so much information. I finally went with Don Paine, Pomeroy Instrument. It's not an easy decision, just so many really fantastic builders, and first class individuals, it's very difficult.

I can't add much to the advice that you have already received, other than you need to make it a fun and enjoyable experience.

[cgwilsonjr]

Buying a custom made instrument takes a lot of patience. I got my Brentrup on the secondary market (instant gratification). I have been on Lawrence Smart's list for about 2 and a half years (during which time a couple of used Smart's have popped up for sale on the Cafe). The exciting thing though is when I get contacted by Mr. Smart I will have every detail of the mandolin designed to my own specifications. Chuck

[kyblue]

There are several builders whose work I admire, but I'll just mention one that I've had direct experience with on a custom build.

John Hamlett(sunburst) recently made a mandola for me. #I found it very helpful when designing the look that John did a photoshop of my ideas so that I could see what I was asking for or what he was suggesting. #Different inlay? #Don't like that fretboard extension? #What difference does binding the headstock make? #Fretboard inlays or not? #Even color - it's hard to get that 'true' particularly with a burst but John got close enough for me to judge red burst vs black vs blonde. #

The actual dola? #Attention to detail is second to none. #Perfect execution -- fit, finish, custom inlay, etc. #Playability is as expected after playing some of John's other instruments. #Sound? #Well, here's where John warned me we were experimenting as he hadn't previously built a flat top, but darned if it isn't as loud and true as his other mandos that I've heard. #

I guess I still think it's safer to find an already built instrument that grabs you when you try it. But, they are so hard to find!

I have had some darned good luck taking a shot with builders whose work I was familiar with -- in the case of the dola a custom build from John, with my mando it was buying site unseen a used Duff A5 2pt that came all the way from Australia and wound up being one of the best sounding mandolins I've ever heard. (Oh, darn. I said I was just going to mention one builder, didn't I??)

I would not recommend buying from a builder whose work I had not seen/heard/played. #I couldn't for the life of me describe to a builder what tone I wanted, or the playability aspects, or my expectations as to fit and finish. #But, I know whose work I've tried that meets those expectations. #Otherwise, seems like an easy way to be disappointed in the end, not necessarily on the part of either party.

Good luck! #Hope it works out well for you. #

Paula