How to play a mandolin like a mandolin !

[brudford]

After reading through two pages of how not to play a mandolin like a guitar I read a bunch of good posts but
mostly concepts and philosphy,no techniques. Frankly I'am
surprised with all the talent and great ideas on this board you guys missed the one all important idea or technique.I have taught and studied both guitar and mandolin. Here is wear I see guitar players going wrong.
Remember with a guitar you are picking a single string,with a mandolin you have two strings that must be picked in unison.Guitar players are taught to have very little movement in their wrist by wear they get their speed with their fingers using the pick,when I see guitar players
using this style what they are doing is only striking one of the mandolin strings at a time,which gives nothing more
than a single stringed note. When playing the mandolin almost lock the wrist and move the whole forearm as to brush over both strings at the same time. Now all you guitar players see if you are picking both of those strings together or just playing one ! now go ahead and check,you will be surprised at how your sound will fill out
on the mandolin by striking both strings not just one.

[Soupy1957]

I've found that there are SOME fellow mandolin players in here and elsewhere, that are Bluegrass players, that want the rest of us to avoid the "whackity wack" strum that we use on our guitars.

I guess, being that the "chop" is just that, a "chop," they have grounds for what they are saying.

On the other hand, I'm learning to diversify my musical styles with the mandolin and how I play it. When I'm at a "Bluegrass" Jam, I try and only "chop" or produce some sort of reasonable "break," and when I'm in a "Blues" setting, it's a different approach.

Typically, since I'm a newbie (about a year) on the mando, I default to slower songs, (teehee) that allow me to do a little harmony-like picking, and I'm all over the place in other genre.

Some of what I learned after fourty years on the guitar, I HAVE brought over to the mando, and I'm glad I HAD that baseline prior to starting the mando. It helped with my understanding of things related to "stringed" instruments.

-Soupy1957

[jmcgann]

When playing the mandolin almost lock the wrist and move the whole forearm as to brush over both strings at the same time.

It is my opinion as a professional player (guitar and mandolin) and teacher that an 'almost locked wrist' is not a good idea. (www.johnmcgann.com/techtips.html)


Guitar players are taught to have very little movement in their wrist by wear they get their speed with their fingers using the pick,

That's an electric guitar technique. Acoustic players (not the kind with pickups, actual acoustic guitars) are going to find that technique provides a teeny tiny tone http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[mando.player]

During my week at mando Kamp all of the instructors stressed a loose wrist. They all had differences in their right hand technique, but all stressed a loose wrist. The only exception was Radim Zenkl. When he goes into hyperdrive he gets his speed by locking the wrist. Keep in mind, this is very fast picking (insanely, unbelievably fast). Radim also favors a wide nut and 4 string instruments, which may help with his hyperdrive, locked wrist approach.

[Peter Hackman]

After reading through two pages of how not to play a mandolin like a guitar I read a bunch of good posts but
mostly concepts and philosphy,no techniques. Frankly I'am
surprised with all the talent and great ideas on this board you guys missed the one all important idea or technique.I have taught and studied both guitar and mandolin. Here is wear I see guitar players going wrong.
Remember with a guitar you are picking a single string,with a mandolin you have two strings that must be picked in unison.Guitar players are taught to have very little movement in their wrist by wear they get their speed with their fingers using the pick,when I see guitar players
using this style what they are doing is only striking one of the mandolin strings at a time,which gives nothing more
than a single stringed note. When playing the mandolin almost lock the wrist and move the whole forearm as to brush over both strings at the same time. Now all you guitar players see if you are picking both of those strings together or just playing one ! now go ahead and check,you will be surprised at how your sound will fill out
on the mandolin by striking both strings not just one.
I really don't understand this at all. I've been moving back and forth
between guitar and mandolin for over 40 years and I'm not aware
of any important difference in approach. I certainly strike both strings
of the pair - If ever Idoubt that I know when I break one string.
There may be some minute difference in the way I drive through
the string, but it's not something I've consciously practised.
When I got started on the mando, I figured out the tuning and fingering
and just started playing. I think it's automatic.

I don't have the loosest wrist in the world, but that's what I strive for.

[John Flynn]

I agree with Pete on this. I think you play to create the music not to meet some "standard." Example: Violin players and fiddle players play the same instrument, but what is considered good technique by purists for one is considered bad technique by purists for the other. What works for the music depends on what kind of music you want to play. The technique of Mike Compton, Carlo Aonzo and U. Shrinivas are all different, even though they are all on top of thier game as mando players.

I am NOT saying technique is not important. Clean, clear notes are a basic. Good timing is a basic. Control of tone and volume dynamics are basics. There are other basics as well. But those basics apply to any instrument in any genre. Good mando-technique is just good musicianship as applied to the mando.

I recently took a mando workshop with Roland White. He said, "All these bluegrass players today want to do on rhythm is chop, chop, chop. I think that gets really boring. You have to vary it." He went on to teach us a lot of what I thought were guitar-like rhythm approaches. He was also not real strident about soloing technique. If that works for him, it works for me.

[mandocrucian]

How to play a mandolin like a mandolin:

<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>The Moreauvian Creed:</span>


<span style='color:red'>
"Say the words!”</span>

Not to tune in 3rds or 4ths, but only in 5ths.
That is the law. Are we not mando-men?

Not to claw the strings with (RH) fingers, but use the plectrum.
That is the law. Are we not mando-men?

Not to slur the notes with LH fingers, but pick every note.
That is the law. Are we not mando-men?

Not to use guitar or banjo fingerings, but only the mando/violin diatonic fingering.
That is the law. Are we not mando-men?

Not to bend strings nor use vibrato.
That is the law. Are we not mando-men?

<span style='color:red'>“Evil are the punishments of those who break the Law! None escape.”</span>

None Escape

<span style='color:red'>“Punishment is sharp and sure Therefore learn the Law! Say the words!" </span>


Alternate viewpoint (courtesy of The Jefferson Airplane):


<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Look what's happening out in the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Hey I'm dancing down the streets
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Ain't it amazing all the people I meet
Got a revolution Got to revolution

One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
Pick up the cry....

Hey now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Come on now we're marching to the sea
Got a revolution Got to revolution
Who will take it from you
We will and who are we
We are volunteers of America
volunteers of America
volunteers of America </span>


Niles H

[Lee Callicutt]

Thanks for making my wine come out of my nose, Niles! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[250sc]

"when I see guitar players using this style what they are doing is only striking one of the mandolin strings at a time.."

I couldn't only pick one string even if I wanted to! When I play guitar and mandolin I push the pick through the sting(s) to get the tone and volume I'm looking for.

[Klaus Wutscher]

One thing I notice with guitarist starting on mando is that usually they use guitar fingerings, i.e. fretting the 5th fret with the pinky and changing positions for the 6th and 7th fret. Makes perfekt sense on the guitar, not so much on the mandolin.

[craig.collas]

the picking thing is the main game .
I have been working on my tremlo and I notice it affects everything else. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[rekx]

OMG Mandocrucian that was hilarious. You are genius, sir.

[entau]

I think it was Jethro Burns who mentioned that most mandolin players (and I believe the same for guitar players) do not pay enough attention to the right hand.

yes the left hand is important - and in the begining stages most of us are just trying to get the notes correct-not really worrying too much about tone- cause it's fun to play tunes you know.

when I studied classical guitar ( so many years ago) - I do recall - the emphasis being almost entirley on right hand position, excecution and tone.
better to be able to play "happy birthday" and have it sound wonderful - than to play a scarlatti peice that sounds mediocre.

I always find when playing to audiences - the simple stuff is really what they enjoy - for the most part they could care less about dazzling speed or complexity, they just want to enjoy music they can sing along with or move to the beat.

musicians on the other hand - are a tough crowd - and I am as guilty as anyone for being critical of the person on the stage.

as for the wrist - I believe what ever is most comfortable and works for the player is the way to go.

[tkdboyd]

How to play a mandolin like a mandolin would be dictated by genre wouldn't it? And there would be much debate with using downstrokes ala Monroe is Mandolin or blues guitar.

I see a common ground with Mando and electric guitar more so than acoustic guitar(excluding Gypsy players and Spanish Fusion Plectrum players-Al Di Meola). In my youth I liked to play fast which meant rapid RH tremolo techniques with scales and arpeggio sweeps. I have been trying to break myself of LH pinky use "out of position" as mentioned by Klaus . Also trying to learn 'taste'; the 80's Shredding Guitar mentality did so much damage to the melodic arts!

[mythicfish]

I am no longer interested in correcting or instructing folks wrt their technique unless money is involved. Otherwise I feel as though I'm just informing people against their will ... and people (generally) don't value what they don't pay for.

Curt

[Peter Hackman]

One thing I notice with guitarist starting on mando is that usually they use guitar fingerings, i.e. fretting the 5th fret with the pinky and changing positions for the 6th and 7th fret. Makes perfekt sense on the guitar, not so much on the mandolin.
When I started on the mandolin in 1966 (I believe) someone told me
you never use open strings on mandolin. Not sure what the explanation was. But for the first year or so I consistently avoided open strings which of course
saved me from from falling in that false fingering trap. Also made it much easier
to transfer ideas to higher positions. Later, of course, I relaxed my approach
in the interest of better pick direction, but I'm really happy I started the way I did.

[jmcgann]

The Right Hand is Your Voice

Andy Statman, to a nervous greenhorn, 1981 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Alex Orr]

Guitar players are taught to have very little movement in their wrist by wear they get their speed with their fingers using the pick,

That's an electric guitar technique. Acoustic players (not the kind with pickups, actual acoustic guitars) are going to find that technique provides a teeny tiny tone http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Thanks for pointing that out John. #I know of very few acoustic guitarists who play from their fingers. #I did that for a few months before I had some lessons and started checking out instructionasl DVDs and all the sources I encountered said that the way I was playing was not a good idea for someone who was interested in flatpcking bluegrass. #Some pickers keep a still wrist and play from their elbow. #Doc is the only one who really comes to mind, although I'm sure there are others. #On one hand there is always the "each to their own" school of thought, but I gotta say, most pickers I see and most instructors I've heard speak (at least in the bluegrass world) all indicate that you should play from a relaxed, accurate, powerful, and active wrist.

[Mark Walker]

My cousin - Dave Williams (who is one of the finest mandolin players on the planet) teaches mandolin and #technique, and his first lesson is on the hand holding the pick. (For most of us, that would be our right hands.)

His phrase that goes with that lesson? #"The Right Hand Rules the World" #

He's a stickler with getting 'chop' and 'rhythm' down before migrating to all the additional nuances of clean picking.

His son - 14 or so - will soon be among the finest mandolin players around - having been taught well by his Dad! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif