Collings factory setup - quality?

[scgc.om]

I've logged only a coupla hrs with my new MT - too early for a review . . . #

But, I do want feedback on Collings Factory setups - are they typically:
1) Superb; #2) Superior; #3) Good but spotty/hit&miss; #4) Too (high/low/relieved/http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif)? ##If 3 or 4, have you tried "Mando Voodoo" of some sort - you know, an after-market setup?

People here seem to routinely comment on Collings consistency of build. #What about their "software" - i.e. labor component AFTER built? #

Thanks for your review on Collings setups.

[John Flynn]

I have mostly played them in stores, but I have played a lot of them and I did get to swtich off between a new MF and well played in MF for a whole jam once. Every one I have played has been well set up.

[ledmandlin]

If you can find someone who does a better setup, let us know.

Bruce and his MF5-V

[Tripp Johnson]

I bought a new MT a couple of monthes ago. It came set up very well but I did thumb wheel the bridge down just the tiniest bit. Only because I was accustomed to a Slightly lower action. I also plan on having the bridge worked on a bit so that the radius matches the fingerboard a little better.

I have played lots of various Collings in stores and generally I find their set ups to be quite good.

I think some builders leave some of the set up to the buyer. Thus, allowing them to tweak it the way they want it.

Hope you like your new mando!

Tripp

[12 fret]

Most domestic manufacturers ship finished instruments to dealers with a middle of the road, conservative set-up. Makes sense since they don't know who the buyer is or what their specific needs will be. Generally, the dealer will do final set-up to customer's individual requirements. Martin, Collings, Gibson, etc seem to ship with a set-up emminently playable but still open to individual fine tuning. Imports seem to ship instruments with anything from zero set-up to pretty good

[Kevin Briggs]

Every Collings I've played in a store has had a great setup. That could be due to Collings or the store setup guy. Either way, they certainly are consistent. While not my personal preference, they are a great line, and I think many people are very happy with them.

Hey, if my main man Jeff Austin from Yonder Mountain String Band played and gigged with one for a few years, they must be great. YMSB gigs all the time, and he always delivers a high energy style, whether playing rhythm or a solo. Of course, Jeff has moved on to a Nugget, but that's not too shocking. I'm pretty sure Jeff went from a Flatiron Festival that he gigged with for years, to a Colings MF5V that he gigged with for a few years, to a Nugget, which seems like an heirloom type instrument.

[ninevah]

The set-up at Collings is the best. They take great care to send them out set-up to the same specification every time. They go by numbers, not guess-work. Actual set-up may not please everyone, but seems to be close to perfect for most people. When my son worked there (building mandolins) I had them set-up a Gil oval hole, and they hit it perfectly. Got that instrument back and it just sings now. The job was done by the usual set-up man for mandolins. He gets a lot of practice, as you know, they make a lot of mandolins!

[zookplayer]

I've played a few Collings in stores as I deal with my ongoing struggle with MAS in its advanced stages - even as recently as yesterday...

Long story short - from my perch, I'd say Collings consistency is quite good. Fine instruments, though I've finally decided that they aren't my cup of tea.

I hope you all don't mind - this is off subject a bit - but I have to add that I wonder why Breedlove doesn't get more good press. I've found the same level of consistency with them in tone and playability across the line and, in spite of my constant scrutiny and occasional philandering bordering on divorce, my Rogue remains #1 in my book. Very different tonal characteristics but easily matches in quality with any MT2.

BTW - MandoVoodoo is the real deal! If you haven't checked it out you should. http://www.mandovoodoo.com/

[Kevin Briggs]

I have a lot of respect for Breedlove mandolins also. There is an Alpine at Acoustic Music Works in Pittsburgh that is just fantastic. I play it every time I go in there, but it never sells.

I think there lack of a traditional F style model works against them. They basically offer all A and K styles and an almost F style. It seems to me the traditional F is the ringer that draws people in. That said, Rolfe at Phoenix doesn't seem to suffer from not having an F.

[zookplayer]

I have a lot of respect for Breedlove mandolins also. There is an Alpine at Acoustic Music Works in Pittsburgh that is just fantastic. I play it every time I go in there, but it never sells.

I think there lack of a traditional F style model works against them. They basically offer all A and K styles and an almost F style. It seems to me the traditional F is the ringer that draws people in. That said, Rolfe at Phoenix doesn't seem to suffer from not having an F.
I think you're right about the lack of traditional F style having something to do with it - maybe that's a lot of it. Breedlove remains a 'best kept secret' as a result I guess. Sweet neck - radius and string spacing just BEG to be played.

I bought my Rogue from Acoustic Music Works. Fine shop. GREAT inventory - I mean - WOW!

I've never been in the shop but I think the original advice I got over the phone from them was spot on as we discussed my playing style and what I was looking for in a mando as I decided between the Rogue & an MT2.

[Kevin Briggs]

The guy there, I think it's Steve, knows what he's talking about. Also, the mandolin teacher there is world class literally. He is known to be the world's authority on Russian Jazz, ala Dave Apollon. He has Dave Apollon's original manuscripts. I kid you not. He charges 100/hour for lessons, but the owner of the place swears you only need to come in once a month, if that.

[zookplayer]

The guy there, I think it's Steve, knows what he's talking about. Also, the mandolin teacher there is world class literally. He is known to be the world's authority on Russian Jazz, ala Dave Apollon. He has Dave Apollon's original manuscripts. I kid you not. He charges 100/hour for lessons, but the owner of the place swears you only need to come in once a month, if that.
yes - it's steve. good guy - straight talk.

I was just on the phone with him yesterday talking about his 2 birdseye MT2's. beautiful pieces - enough to make a man want to leave home...

in the spirit of the original thread about Collings setup and since I now finally know I'm not going to buy one - you Collings freaks ought to check it out if you aren't aware of this shop - especially as hard as these things are to come by.

http://www.acousticmusicworks.com/

[John Flynn]

I wonder why Breedlove doesn't get more good press.
Another factor is that the "shark fin" headstock design and it seems thier best instruments are mostly that K shape. OK, I'm sure Breedlove fans love them, and that's fine. I am not putting them down, but you have to admit it's an acquired taste. I don't think those design elements appeal to most of the mando buying public. I thought I read in a thread a while ago that there is a luthier on the West Coast who specializes in "fin-ectomies" on Breedloves. The tone and playability on Breedloves is great also, but different, again an acquired taste.

Breedlove, Phoenix, formerly Rigel and a few other brands have obviously made a decision to go for niche markets instead of butting heads in the mainstream segment market with all the F-style builders. But you are not going to hear as much press on niche builders, because it is only a small segment of the market.

Collings has followed a different strategy and decided to jump in the mainstream market and beat a lot of the traditional builders at thier own game. My guess is that they sell a lot more mandos than the niche brands. I went to a jam in Dallas once at Charlie's Guitar Shop. They had more Collings mandos on the wall than all other brands put together. It was a huge jam, over 20 people. Almost all the mando and guitar players played Collings. Even at a big Breedlove dealer, you're probably not going to see that.

[zookplayer]

I wonder why Breedlove doesn't get more good press.
Another factor is that the "shark fin" headstock design and it seems thier best instruments are mostly that K shape. OK, I'm sure Breedlove fans love them, and that's fine. I am not putting them down, but you have to admit it's an acquired taste. I don't think those design elements appeal to most of the mando buying public. I thought I read in a thread a while ago that there is a luthier on the West Coast who specializes in "fin-ectomies" on Breedloves. The tone and playability on Breedloves is great also, but different, again an acquired taste.

Breedlove, Phoenix, formerly Rigel and a few other brands have obviously made a decision to go for niche markets instead of butting heads in the mainstream segment market with all the F-style builders. But you are not going to hear as much press on niche builders, because it is only a small segment of the market.

Collings has followed a different strategy and decided to jump in the mainstream market and beat a lot of the traditional builders at thier own game. My guess is that they sell a lot more mandos than the niche brands. I went to a jam in Dallas once at Charlie's Guitar Shop. They had more Collings mandos on the wall than all other brands put together. It was a huge jam, over 20 people. Almost all the mando and guitar players played Collings. Even at a big Breedlove dealer, you're probably not going to see that.
I know what you mean about niche builders and acquired taste for something out of the mainstream. I think I'm probably drawn a little more to that, or at least more open to it, than others. But the overall quality, the feel, and the tone of the instrument is what speaks to me.

I think some may be missing out as they 'listen with their eyes' and feel that they need to follow the norm for an element of acceptance. You certainly see that in the Bluegrass community but that also goes along with preserving a tradition and I believe in the value of that. Just not to the exclusion of new designs/ideas/styles.

As an aside - I'd guess that the fact that the jam was in a Dallas music store might have added to the inventory & (admitedly well deserved) bias towards Collings. BTW - my D1 is a hoss! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[12 fret]

Don't own either so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Collings much more expensive than the most comparable Breedlove? Think comparisons have to take cost into consideration. I recently tried similar style Martin, Collings , and Breedlove guitars. No doubt, the Collings was on top in sound, cosmetics, and playability but it was around $2000 more than the other two.

[zookplayer]

Don't own either so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Collings much more expensive than the most comparable Breedlove? Think comparisons have to take cost into consideration. I recently tried similar style Martin, Collings , and Breedlove guitars. No doubt, the Collings was on top in sound, cosmetics, and playability but it was around $2000 more than the other two.
the Master Class Breedloves are in the same ballpark price range as the MT2 Collings mandolins. The MF Collings are quite a bit more but it's fair price-wise to compare a high end Breedlove with a high end Collings A style.

edit - just checked around a bit more on line. depending on the model - you might actually pay a bit more for a Breedlove than a high end Collings A model and about the same for a lower grade Collings F.

[12 fret]

Aren't you comparing the top of one line with the entry level on the other? Comparing satin finished A style's from the two looks like about double/half price relationship. My guitar comparison was models with same woods, same style, and same level of finish and then look at what that combo costs. Its perfectly reasonable to look at cost first and then see what you can get, I just tend to go the other way

[zookplayer]

Aren't you comparing the top of one line with the entry level on the other?
no - trying to do apples to apples - Master Class Breedlove A or K models to high end Collings A models and I see now that Breedloves are actually priced a bit higher.

an example - Acoustic Music Works has the following for sale:

Collings MT2sb Birdseye Sunburst Custom - $3,420.00 (I paid about that price for my Rogue 2 years ago)

http://www.acousticmusicworks.com/MT21312.html

Breedlove Alpine Master Class A model - $4,260.00

http://www.acousticmusicworks.com/Alpine.html

the entry level reference was to a Collings MF Custom that I played yesterday going for about $4,100.00 at Appalachian Bluegrass in Catonsville, MD. Realizing that a lower grade F model will often cost more than a higher grade A model due to higher cost of construction & demand due to 'scroll fixation' #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

just an additional frame of reference

[JGWoods]

Mandolins move with the seasons unless you live in a cave. Last winter I ran into a guy with a Collings that was buzzing all over the place because it had dried out some.
Colling may indeed set them up well, but if they sit for 6 months they may be different than when they left the factory especially if they have gone to a different climate.

I got a Gibson guitar last winter that was quite buzzy and dry. Now 6 months later it is fine and full sounding. I was a year old when I got it. I hope I can keep it humidified to the extent it needs this winter.

[Kevin Briggs]

One additional consideration when comparing the Collings MT2 to the Breedlove Alpine. From the Breedlove perspective, the Alpine is one of the best models they offer. It's right at the top, so it gets their best tap tuned woods and the top is graduated by Kim Breedlove.

The Collings MT2, while I assume it's very nice, is not marketed as the top of the line Collings mandolin. For that, you're paying in excess of $11k.

[zookplayer]

One additional consideration when comparing the Collings MT2 to the Breedlove Alpine. From the Breedlove perspective, the Alpine is one of the best models they offer. It's right at the top, so it gets their best tap tuned woods and the top is graduated by Kim Breedlove.

The Collings MT2, while I assume it's very nice, is not marketed as the top of the line Collings mandolin. For that, you're paying in excess of $11k.
Right - but the MT2 is the top of the line Collings 'A' model. If you look at the MT2sb at Acoustic Music Works in the link above - I'd say that very mandolin would be easily twice the price or a bit more if it came with a scroll and a couple of points. But would it play or sound any different/better? The age old question right? My guess is 'not really'. Hard for me to consider that mandolin any less of an instrument than the equivalent F model that costs a lot more money.

As this thread turned into a fairly general discussion where general quality of materials and workmanship between the two builders are considered along with price, I think comparing top of the line Breedloves to the top Collings A model(s) is relevant though the Master Class Breedloves may get a little more TLC than the Collings MT2's during production - I honestly don't know about that, though. They're both great instruments - across the line(s).

I DO think we're spending a lot of money for aesthetics and not getting much more (if any) mandolin when we look past the A (or K) models and go for the F's, though. Not that there's anything wrong with that! (quote from Seinfeld)... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Now back to my old time & Irish tunes on my inappropriately modern - 'shark finned' peghead Rogue... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kevin Briggs]

I DO think we're spending a lot of money for aesthetics and not getting much more (if any) mandolin when we look past the A (or K) models and go for the F's, though. Not that there's anything wrong with that! (quote from Seinfeld)... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ah yes, we certainly like to keep up our appearances. Our bank accounts would be in a lot better shape if Mr. Monroe had seen an A style sitting in that barber shop window. As it is, he had scroll envy! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[zookplayer]

Ah yes, we certainly like to keep up our appearances. Our bank accounts would be in a lot better shape if Mr. Monroe had seen an A style sitting in that barber shop window. As it is, he had scroll envy! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
yup - and the rest is history! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I bet that Weber of yours is a nice piece!

[mandopete]

Not sure about the MT, but the MF-5 I purchased came with what I would call an "average" set up. #By that I mean rather average for the action. #I noticed that the cuts in both the nut and bridge are very shallow and this seemed a bit unusual to me. #I have been gradually lowering the action without any real difference to the tone. #

My understanding is that Collings is somewhat fanatical about set up. #I think this is one of the reasons the instruments are shipped with the stings up to pitch.