Paris swing mandolins

[Tebbie bear]

Has anyone had the chance to play one of these yet? I really like the looks of the Paris Swing Samois Mando D-hole (ms-130) but haven't seen any reviews other than the one on Jazzmando.com, and its pretty positive. I have seen several online retailers selling it for 600 bucks with a case, and a "set-up" a decent set of strings and a morgan monroe bullwhip strap... seems cool, what say you?

[Jason Holmes]

I've not heard good things about them, one thing being that the tops are pressed and not carved. You could get an inexpensive carved top instrument for that amount of money which I bet would sound much better. Just my two cents.

[jefflester]

Search results "Paris AND Swing" (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=Search&CODE=02&SID=46894459581d4687)

[MikeEdgerton]

Search is your friend http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

Searching "Paris AND Swing" gives you tons of irrelevant threads unless you narrow it to simply topics (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=Search&CODE=02&SID=468992696873c169).

[Tebbie bear]

Thanks alot guys I searched for Paris Swing and got nothing... I guess I just dont know how to use it...

[Tebbie bear]

Ok after reading through 6 or 8 threads The bulk of what I got was guys telling other people to "use the search" so I guess its a total bore to actually discuss mandolins on the mandolin boards

[Paul Hostetter]

I pointed you to 12 threads in an active link to a more focused search, above. If you look you'll see some that have two posts, some that have way more. The ones with only two probably tell you to look for older threads that have already covered the topic. The longer ones have real substance. To assume "it's a total bore to actually discuss mandolins" here is to entirely miss what's going on here. It's all these maniacs want to do! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[John Flynn]

I will probably get accused of "bashing" here, but you said you wanted a review and this is an honest impression. I played one in a store. To me it sounded dead and was just so-so in terms of playability. Maybe it wasn't set up well enough. Maybe it hadn't opened up yet. Maybe monkeys will fly out of that absurdly huge sound hole. I was not interested enough to pursue the case further. I can find a lot better ways to spend $600 on a mandolin.

[Tebbie bear]

Man I wish I had a chance to play one but I live in Iowa ... not exactly a mandolin hot spot http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I don't play Bluegrass, and as such don't have the need (or even the desire) to have that "chop" I may pick one up and play it for a while and if I don't like it I can always fleabay it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

There are three basic Paris Swing models: one is somewhat F-ish in style because of f-holes; then a small oval-hole Selmer inspired model; and an analog to the Selmer with the large D-hole. All have the same body, which is a hybrid of Gibson and Selmer. Different tops. And they all sound different in the same way.

Of the latter, there are two versions. The earlier had a larger soundhole, and the ones I saw from that era had structural issues (or they seemed eminent) because I felt the overly-large soundhole - it was like a girl who wears too much bright red makeup - took so much away from the top itself. As of about a year ago, MusicLink issued a revision of that design that had a somewhat smaller soundhole. I would look for one of those if possible, if I were you. Though I can't say I've ever seen one of the earlier ones completely fail, I trust the structural integrity of the newer tops more now. And the lips aren't quite so exaggerated now.

From the earliest ones I've seen, they've benefited from a comprehensive setup, and in the end were fun to play and had a unique and satisfying sound. It's not an F-5, but it was never intended to be an F-5. Greg Rich designed them top to bottom, and his aesthetics are worth the price of admission, if you ask me. The fact that they are (or can be) fun to play and sound good is gravy.

If you have to order one of these online, consider buying from someone who you can be sure will do a nice setup on it before they send it to you. Some outfits do that routinely, some might charge a bit or perhaps a lot for it, but it's worth going over the setup completely.

Tebbie bear, don't let those "use the search" guys get to you. Obviously they aren't at all interested in up to date information or actual owner opinion.

Any evaluation of a brand new instrument is of limited value. By now some people have had their Paris Swing mandos for several months and could give us some good opinions if they were allowed to do so.

[Tebbie bear]

yeah I actually have gotten a couple PM's from people with their reviews, just wonder why they couldn't post them here??? thanks for the feedback Paul, I think I'm In a buying mood http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[John Flynn]

I don't play Bluegrass, and as such don't have the need (or even the desire) to have that "chop"
I did not say anything about chop and I am not much of a 'grasser either. I was not evaluating the instrument expecting any chop.


Any evaluation of a brand new instrument is of limited value.
I'm sorry, I gotta disagree with that. A good instrument will sound good right out of the box. It will sound BETTER after it's played in, hopefully, but if the basics aren't there at the beginning, they aren't just gonna magically appear later on.

"just wonder why they couldn't post them here??? "

They probably don't want to put up with the nonsense they will get. There is always some expert who thinks his 5 minute evaluation of a green instrument is more valuable than long-term experience with a more mature instrument.

Some instruments get better, some don't. Some develop issues after a few months that weren't there when the instrument was new. Necks can warp, frets can pop, glue joints can fail, tops can sag and sometimes an instrument can get so much better it seems like a totally different instrument - almost like magic.

[cooper4205]

They probably don't want to put up with the nonsense they will get. There is always some expert who thinks his 5 minute evaluation of a green instrument is more valuable than long-term experience with a more mature instrument.
why ask questions if you only want to hear one side? you gotta expect some bad reviews with any instrument, not everyone is gonna like them.

[John Flynn]

sometimes an instrument can get so much better it seems like a totally different instrument - almost like magic.
P.T. Barnum was right. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

"why ask questions if you only want to hear one side?"

It isn't the bad reviews but that "PT Barnum was right" type of comment that are the problem. Good information from people who actually own the instruments and have real experience with them is sent in private messages and all we get are snide remarks.

We do end up with only one side. Sadly, it is the side that doesn't have the information that was requested.

[John Flynn]

Sadly, it is the side that doesn't have the information that was requested.
There's your trouble. Message boards are not a paid research service. They are a free exchange of ideas. You can start a thread on any topic, but you can never control where it goes. You can ask any question and you may get answers, you may not. You may get different answers than you wanted. Right or wrong, that's the nature of the beast on just about every message board. It's worse on most of them. This one is way above average. Welcome to the Internet. Complaints should be directed to Al Gore.

[Ted Eschliman]

From the "For what it's worth department."

As the (what appears to be) only "public" author of a review on the Paris Swing, let me reiterate my opinion of the Samois, even though the original poster has rightfully requested "additional" information.

1.) The instrument is (arguably) good for its price range. As far as adding "magic," a good set-up is hardly magic, but it does wonders for almost every instrument, even a cheap one. Initially, the first batch of shipments of these left a lot to be desired in the player-prep department. I was told at Winter NAMM (1/07) this was being addressed. Still, shipping, wood settling with climate changes, all call for a review by a (good) retailer prior to sale. I'm not talking about "adding" to an instrument, just bringing it to its full potential with a properly adjusted bridge, well-cut nut, and appropriate strings. (Back me up repair folks, this requires some degree of expertise.) Sadly, in the new on-line price-sensitive purchasing culture, a growing number of retailers don't feel its their duty to include this in their products.

2.)The instrument is not for everybody. The D-mouth I had was warm and full, hardly meant to cut through banjos. That said, it comes at a price point where a jazz hungry MAS addict might own this as an auxiliary instrument, a "toy" if you will, and be quite content with the aesthetic novelty aspects of it. I found the cosmetics quite appealing, but understand it's not everybody's mug of latte.

3.) I owned one for most of a year. I paid for it with my own money, despite the privilege of reviewing it. I enjoyed it. Why did I sell it? I have other mandolins at 3-5 times the price that perform 3-5 times better. I don't regret owning it, and would recommend it to any who would choose to spend under $600 for this kind of panache.

No disrespect intended to anyone here.

[Paul Hostetter]

Thank you, Ted!

When someone’s interested in opinions about an instrument and when I know a lot of talk has already gone down on the subject, yer darn right I’ll suggest a search. It’s simply a shortcut to the requested info, it’s not a cop-out. I encouraged a search, but I also offered some real hands-on experience.

An evaluation of a brand new instrument is indeed of limited value (but certainly not devoid of value) because so many of them, especially in this price range, come from Asia set up by line workers who are not musicians and haven’t a clue how an instrument is supposed to sound or play. They arrive with absolute garbage strings if they’re coming from China. Or absolutely dead strings if they’ve been on a shop wall. Lots of things will appear after a setup, a string change and some playing. As Ted says, it’s really not magic, but it usually makes a lot of difference.

I also wonder why “they” couldn't post them here, but maybe they already said what the had to say in an earlier thread or three, or they’re simply repeating what someone else already said. Who knows? I really doubt it’s because “They probably don't want to put up with the nonsense they will get.”

The heart of the subject was "I really like the looks of the Paris Swing Samois Mando D-hole (ms-130)." Mando Johnny said "I played one in a store." But the FACT is he did NOT play the D-hole mandolin, he played the OVAL hole mandolin. He even posted about it back on Feb. 14 2006. Now he lectures me about the internet and how you may get different answers than you want!

Thanks for the update Ted. It is nice to hear from someone who has some actual experience with that mando.

[AlanN]

I will probably get accused of "bashing" here, but you said you wanted a review and this is an honest impression. I played one in a store. To me it sounded dead and was just so-so in terms of playability. Maybe it wasn't set up well enough. Maybe it hadn't opened up yet. Maybe monkeys will fly out of that absurdly huge sound hole. I was not interested enough to pursue the case further. I can find a lot better ways to spend $600 on a mandolin.
You forgot the Large-Mouth Bass thing.

[John Flynn]

But the FACT is he did NOT play the D-hole mandolin, he played the OVAL hole mandolin.
So your reasoning is the only time I could have possibly encountered a Paris Swing in a music store was in Feb. of 2006, because I posted about it then. Think about the logic of that for a second. It is what I call the Internet = reality syndrome. As a matter of fact, one of the two local music stores that I visit frequently have had multiple Paris Swings in stock since then, including all varieties of sound holes, so you are dead wrong.

Give it up, you're busted.

"I played one in a store."

[John Flynn]

Yes, I played one of D-holes. To your point, that's the instrument we have been talking about, right? Besides, my review would have been the same for either. They don't sound that much different. Besides, why should I give a hoot about being "busted" by you?

I am not sure what has put a bee in your bonnet over this. The OP asked for reviews from owners, but complained he wasn't getting any. I did have an honest opinion about the instrument and I gave him one, because I thought it would be helpful. Apparently you think only positive opinions are valid and honest and everyone should follow your imaginary set of rules on message boards.

And we haven't heard your opinion of the instrument yet. So I have to assume that probably either you don't like it also, or you haven't played one at all. So in those cases, respectively, you would be talking out of either hypocrisy or ignorance. Which is it? Have you played one of these instruments?

[duuuude]

I like pie.

[RichM]

I owned a Paris Swing Samois (D-hole) for a while. I don't know if it was one of the earlier or later ones, but based on Paul's description above, I'm guessing it was one of the earlier ones, as the sound hole was just enormous. I thought the overall build quality was comparable to import mandolins at similar price points, except mine had more highly figured maple than I would have expected. Tuners were cheap and not very good.

The tone was unique and fairly pleasing. The bass thoroughly overwhelmed the treble, and while I could minize this with tweaking, the tone was still pretty bass heavy. Moving from the D course to the A course resulted in a very discernable loss of volume and punch.

I would give it an overall "not bad," but the tone would not be for everyone. If I were to make a long term committment to it, I would invest in upgraded tuners and a very thorough and patient setup.

[Paul Hostetter]

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/baray/Largemouth.jpg

[Bill Snyder]

neptune why the need to be so worked up and jump all over the people that are trying to tell what they do know about the Paris Swing mandolins?

[Keith Erickson]

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/baray/Largemouth.jpg
I see the connection between neptune and the fish http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

Actually I was just thinking about "large-mouth" and bass.

[JEStanek]

Didn't Kieth Newell make a beautiful mando that color recently? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jamie

[jim simpson]

Just as this thread starts to get hot, I hear that Gibson is about to aquire the Paris Swing line! (just kidding, just kidding).

I did get to play a Paris Swing with f-holes recently as I tried to get a job at a local music store (recently relocated to Wheeling, WV). The clerk handed it to me to try and wanted to make me a great offer on it. It sounded okay but I told him I needed a job not another mandolin.

[GerryMac19B]

This is my first posting on Mando Cafe, so Hi! to everybody!

I actually bought a Paris Swing model about a month ago - online! Now before anyone says I'm crazy, the very same thought went through my own mind!! But I'd read the reviews - especially the one on Mando Cafe - and, despite some reservations in the article (you get what you pay for, etc.) I decided to go for it because the specifications seemed to be too good to ignore. I got it at a very good price but was still was a little nervous about it all until it arrived on my doorstep. Now, I'm not exactly a beginner - I've been playing tenor b**j* and mando for 30 years, mostly Irish trad music but recently I've taken up Old Timey and this must have been one of the craziest things I've ever done! Anyway, the other mandos I own and play are a Breedlove OF and an English 'folk' style, custom-made job by Oakwood Instruments - both excellent little honeys but I was in the market for an inexpensive F5.

After getting delivery of the 'Paris', I restrung it with D'Addario EXP74 medium gauge strings and reset the bridge, etc. Result? A very, very pleasant surprise!! It has a bark and tone that friends with much more expensive instruments were astonished at. The volume is a knockout, it also has a fantastically low action and is true right up the board. But elitism is elitism. It's not a Gibson or a Weber or any other expensive axe and therefore my friends said they wouldn't buy it - especially the way I obtained it! I, however, am not that fussy about 'named' instruments. If it sounds good and it does the job I require, it's good enough for me. Therefore, the Paris will do me as I've already 'proved' it to my complete satisfaction in several Old Timey jamming sessions.

My conclusion? I personally think it's excellent value for money. The only thing I have to do now to it is to 'shave' the bottom extension of the f'board as it - like *ALL* F5 models - protrudes into my playing area. Obviously Mr. Loar was not a gigging musician in his day! But all in all, this was money well spent, even though I wouldn't recommend to everyone to buy an instrument in this manner - sight unseen and untried!! Maybe I was lucky but sometimes you have to make your own luck.