Mando styles, wood choices, and budgets

[slejhamer]

I currently play electric bass, and both acoustic and electric guitars.

I've been thinking about buying a mandolin for a while, and with my birthday coming up I've been doing some research on "beginner" mandolins under $300. (I am totally open to buying used gear, and actually prefer it since I can usually resell at close to what I paid if need be.)

I'm mostly interested in celtic styles, with occasional dabbling in rock / folk / bluegrass.

I was looking at the Mid-Missouri that's for sale in the classifieds, and it seems like it's right up my alley, but I'm also wondering about something like the Morgan Monroe MAM-200, which is all mahogany with f-holes. How would something like that compare?

What else should I be thinking about in terms of body styles (flat vs. carved top, f-holes vs. round holes, etc.) and wood choices? I know it's probably difficult to find good quality on a low budget, but any additional input would be appreciated.

[otterly2k]

slej-
For your money, and the styles of music you are most insterested in, definitely go for the Mid-Missouri. These are well-made, solid, and great sounding. A terrific value, and generally very consistent in quality. These are made in a small shop by Mike Dulak (whose business is now called Big Muddy, btw), who has earned himself a reputation for high quality instruments and great customer service.

If you were interested in mostly bluegrass, you might want a carved mandolin with f holes (like the Morgan Monroe). The carved shape and the f holes make for a more cutting sound with more tone separation and characteristic percussive "chop", which is sought after in BG. Most of the instruments like that in your price range are factory made imports that are inconsistent in quality and generally require additional tweaking and set up work to sound their best. You could find a gem. Or a dud.

For Celtic/folk styles, oval/round hole instruments are most often used. Richer, less cutting tone... a bit more sustain. Flat vs. carved is really a preference thing... each can sound great, but there is a bit of a tonal difference that's best explored by actually going to play/listen to some if you can.

Really, I think for your budget and interests, you are unlikely to do better than a Mid-Mo.
I expect others will chime in similarly...

[Fliss]

I totally agree, for your budget and the music you want to play, the used Mid Mo sounds ideal.

Fliss

[slejhamer]

The carved shape and the f holes make for a more cutting sound with more tone separation and characteristic percussive "chop", which is sought after in BG. #

...

For Celtic/folk styles, oval/round hole instruments are most often used. #Richer, less cutting tone... a bit more sustain. #

____

Excellent information; thanks! #That's what I was hoping for. #

Already sent an email to the Mid-Mo seller with some questions, but that seems like a really nice deal.

[JEStanek]

Look at the Mid Mo / Big Muddy used market. #A similar option would be the older Flatiron Pancake mandos. #If you had access to several used Mid Mo's (now Big Muddys) you can hear different tonal flavors based on back/top wood combos. #You can hear some sound clips here (folkofthewood.com video clips) (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2518.htm#midmissouri) You likely won't find all of these used at the same time. #There is an all mahog M11 Mid Mo

$300 is a tough number. #Also, people don't often part with their mid-mos. #Good luck. #There are also some US builders who pop up in the Classifieds that make flat toped instruments in that range (Thomas Flood in NV comes to mind). #I've not played anything by him but he uses a variety of woods, has made a few and the price for new is in your ball park. #I have no financial interest in his work... just a recollection. Here's is info from the Builders page. (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/builders/searchdb.cgi?uid=default&view_records=1&keyword=flood)

There's another guy in Texas David Newton making New Navy mandos his info. (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/builders/searchdb.cgi?uid=default&view_records=1&keyword=David+Newton) #I can't recall his prices. #I haven't played any of his either.

Good luck
Jamie

[slejhamer]

Wow, that Folk of the Wood soundclip site is great! Thanks - that'll help.

Just saw a Thomas Flood post in the classifieds as well - gorgeous A-style with flamed birch. Nice!

[Steve L]

You might email Mr. Flood and ask about the scale length of his mando. #He often seems to sell instruments with 13" vs the just under 14" that is standard on most popular brands. #This isn't a bad thing and every time that guy posts a mando for sale I'm tempted by it. #Just make sure you're not surprised.

I wouldn't expect that $300 Mid Mo to last very long.

[slejhamer]

Thanks for that advice, Steve.

And the Mid Mo's already gone ... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[DryBones]

keep an eye on eBay, the Mid-Mos come and go quite often. In fact there are 3 up there right now. Just search Mid-Missouri mandolin.

[otterly2k]

Slej-
You could keep looking for a used Mid-Mo. #I doubt you'd regret it. #Check ebay, classifieds and you might also troll around some of the sites of retailers that sell used instruments. #Also-- consider putting your own ad in the "Wanted" section of the classifieds...maybe someone has one that they'd be willing to part with.

I agree that the New Navy and Flatiron pancakes would also be good candidates. #I just haven't seen them in your price range. #If you find one of those at your price, they'd be worth your consideration.

Thomas Flood's mando is in your range. #I don't have any direct experience with them, but go ahead and contact him and ask questions. #You could also ask if there's someone else who owns one of his instruments that you could contact for a description/testimonial. #

good luck...

[Steve L]

There's another Mid Mo in the classifieds with a hard case under $400.

[slejhamer]

Thanks again for all the good advice and for looking out for me!

Quick question: how much difference will there be with a wide-neck Mid-Mo? There's an M-1W for sale at ... well I won't say where ... very reputable store though. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I won't have an opportunity to play it beforehand, but I'll say that my acoustic guitars are a Seagull (relatively wide neck and string spacing) and a Breedlove (wider than some, not as wide as the 'gull), and I play bass, so stretching isn't much of an issue ... though my hands are just average size or slightly smaller.

Saw that one in the classifieds, too ... very tempting, just beyond my budget. Not in too much of a rush.

Oh, the Flood is gone, too. Good deals don't last!

[Steve L]

I've played a couple of wide necked Mid Mos and really like them. I've got a Breedlove and a Parson's flat top that are both 1 3/16". You really feel the difference...not for everyone but I like it a lot.

[ab4usa]

The flip side of the arguement is that, if you atart with a standard width neck, you will not have any isues adapting to other mando's as you begin upgrading.

[otterly2k]

Go for it, Slej. Especially as you're already coming from wider necked instruments, a mando neck (wide or standard) will still feel mighty small.

[slejhamer]

ab4usa does have a great point about upgrading, but that's not too likely for me - if anything, for my next purchase I'd lean more toward an octave mandolin where the string spacing seems to vary quite a bit from maker to maker (from what I've read, anyway.) Also, bass will continue to be my primary instrument; mandolin will be for personal satisfaction and jamming with friends. And as otterly says, the wider neck should still be fairly comfortable coming from bass and guitar.

I got over the biggest hurdle -- spousal approval http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif -- so the M1W is mine! Paid $325 with a cheap gig bag. The M-0 for sale in the classifieds with the hard case is a very fair deal, but I like the binding on the M-1, and for my needs the gig bag should be sufficient.

Thanks for all your advice!

[Steve L]

I think you got a really good deal. Good luck with the mandolin!

[gregjones]

I got over the biggest hurdle -- spousal approval http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Now........looks like it's time for you to share some advice.

[Michael H Geimer]

Big Fan of the Big Muddy. I've got two Mid-Mo's and one Muddy Mandola.

I even managed to find a used Mid-Mo M-0 for just under $300. It's my beater.

OK ... I just picked a quick tune on it before I head off to lunch. (did you hear it? how'd it sound? )

[JEStanek]

Congrats. You chose wisely!

Jamie

[slejhamer]

(gregjones) Now........looks like it's time for you to share some advice.

My hands are going to be so chapped from doing dishes for the next year,I may not be able to play... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[slejhamer]

(JEStanek)Congrats. #You chose wisely!


Thanks Jamie! #I had good advisers! #

But darnit! I just realized I forgot to order a strap. #Oh well, I'll play sitting down for a while, going through the lessons at musicmoose and elsewhere. #At least it's not a roundback.

Oh, I got the mandolin at Elderly, in case anyone was curious. #It was listed as a Big Muddy, not Mid-Mo, so it may be a fairly recent one. #I'll put D'ad EXP Phos-bro 11-40s on it; can't wait!

[JEStanek]

You can use a guitar strap when shortened WAY short. Attach to end pin and then do the strings at the other end around the headstock between the 2 and 3rd tuners under the strings. Works good enough. I almost never use a strap as I sit when I play mostly.

Jamie

[slejhamer]

Got it yesterday! QUICK shipping from Elderly.

The strings were pretty dead and it had serious intonation problems. I took the strings off, cleaned up the fretboard, got rid of some grit and grime on the body (former owner had outlined the bridge position with pencil ... but it was the WRONG position), lubed the nut with graphite, restrung it with the EXPs, and spent a half hour trying to get reasonable intonation.

Now it's a gem! LOVE the soft-V shape to the neck. It's just like the bass I'm having built! Honestly I wouldn't know good mandolin tone from shinola, but I really like how this one sounds. It's almost exactly what I had imagined ... I may try a slightly lighter gauge pick though (using .96mm delrin, and the attack is fairly dark.)

I've been ripping through some very basic Celtic tunes, like Britches Full of Stitches and The Wind That Shakes The Barley, and having a blast. My daughter started to do some Irish-style dancing while I played, so I couldn't have been too bad! Very fun.

But I do think I'll get a proper strap right away. The cheap nylon-webbing guitar strap I found at the bottom of my closet just doesn't do it justice. Even sitting down it seems more comfortable with the strap.

[Lou Scuderi]

The M-1 is a GREAT choice for a starter mando. I've had mine for nigh on eight years now and I'm just now getting a new one (it's a bit overdue, but the mid-mo served it's purpose well). I started out on and mostly play celtic on it, but I've recently gotten into bluegrass, jazz, and rock. My mid-mo does it all! Good luck!