Rock on the mandolin

[dwc]

I thought it might be cool if we talked a little about what rock songs we like to play on mandolin. Since the mandolin does not have a defined role in rock the way it does in bluegrass, I thought it would be interesting to talk about what roles we assume, what songs we play, and how we adapt them to mandolin (as mandolin is an underused instrument in rock genres). I will start with a quick, simple example.

I do an acoustic version of Casey Jones (Grateful Dead) where my friend plays rhythm (simple, basic chords)and I play a lead line over it. Neither of us sing well so I play the entire melody line, verse and chorus over his strummed chords. I am, in effect, assuming the role of lead vocalist. Its fun and easily recognizable. I actually do the same thing with Ripple.

So, what do you do? Do you play melody lines like that, do you strum or chop chords, or do you play a counter-melody? I am sure most players do all of the above (although not, perhaps, in the dame song). Where and how do you fit the mandolin into rock songs?

If this topic is of interest, I have other examples; I spend alot of time listening to keyboard players and try to mimic what they do and fill the same sort of role.

[John Flynn]

A few thoughts before Niles chimes in and gives the definitive answer. I think you can do all of the above. You can also do licks that a lead guitar might do up high. It really can be whatever works. This might not work for "Casey Jones," but for more traditional rock tunes (whtever that means!) sometimes I like to do fills during breaks in the vocals with a few closed double-stop slides, like X-X-s5-s3 over a G chord and then throw in some hammer-ons to X-X-5h7-3, all with a Chuck Berry kind of strum. Then I will change the double stop appropriate notes for the 4 and 5 chords when the music changes to them. I will also do rock-type lead fills, including some bends, although bends can really take an acoustic 8-string out of tune!

Also, it's great to learn the actual mando lines out of the rock tunes that have mando in them. Not necessarily so you do those lines, but it gives you ideas about how other rock mando players have approached it.

I am sure there are lot of other answers. The main thing is that you fulfil the purpose of rock 'n roll which is to...
Stick it to The Man! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[James P]

Neither of us sing well so I play the entire melody line, verse and chorus over his strummed chords
Have you learned nothing from the Dead??? #Sing the Song, man, Sing! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


This is a really great question. #Good rocking in the pocket counterpoint is an artform. #IMO nobody's done it better than Ry Cooder (and fwiw, to me it sounds like he listened to a lot of Monroe.) #

[disjointed monkey fappage alert!]
Johnny's got it down wrt licks, double stops and fills. #Sometimes doubling up with the guitar(s) is good for phattening, or you can stretch the soundscape and pitch the figure higher. #Other times it's good to lay way back waiting to pounce. For folk rolk be the twelve string. #For Dead duos mix it up between between being Jerry and the snare. #When you add more musicians leave more space. #Always back off for the bass solo.
[/dmfa]

What else rookies???

[mandopete]

I like to do the "windmill" ala Pete Townsend!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Santiago]

I like to immitate guitar parts, but change bends to slides, etc.

[Enigmatic Recluse]

Songs like "Whole Lotta Love", "Don't Worry, Kyoko", "I Wanna Be Your Dog"and "Smoke on the Water" are fun to play using power chords on the G and D strings.

[dwc]

I've spent a fair ammount of time trying to copy Dave Matthew's guitar style. Percussive with lots of partials and muted strings. I can never get it to sound right. I have tried on Ovals and Fs, the oval is closer, but still not right. Part of the problem is no bottom end, no bass strings, but still, I would have thought a mandolin would be well suited to this style of play.

[Mike Herlihy]

My favorite rock songs are:

"Going to my Hometown" - Rory Gallagher

"Black Country Woman" - Led Zeppelin

[NY_Mando]

Hi folks. Nice group you've got going here.

Getting back on topic, I wanted to ask about the original question and try to learn what resources are out there for playing mandolin with popular and rock music?

On my end, I had a bad left hand accident and playing the guitar has been kind of difficult. I bought a mandolin and found that I'm not 1/2 bad. The spacing makes things a bit easier even if the shorter scale makes being articulate challenging at times.

Anyhow, I've found a few songs out there like Battle of Evermore, Loosing my religion, and Fire on the Mountain that seemed cool but I was wondering if there's any tab out there for Yes songs? I've been searching for stuff like 'I've seen all good people' but come up dry (perhaps Steve's using his 12 String portugese guitar and not a mandolin, I don't know).

Anyhow, I've love to have more to work with so if anyone knows of resources or could write out some tab I've like to know.

Also what are your favorite rock tunes?

Thanks,
Ken

[bjc]

I play "Blister in the Sun" by the Femmes, "Best Friends Girl" by the Cars, "Watching the Detectives" by Elvis, a reggae version of "Freebird" and "Margarittaville" (Don't hate me 'cuz I'm a Parrothead) in my duo...Some of 'em I use two finger chords during the verses and full chords during the choruses...been experimenting with a lot of piano type voicings in my band...

[Keith Erickson]

Hey there Brian,

It's good to see you again http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

A couple of Sunday's ago I warmed up to "Hey Joe" from Jimi Hendrix before church. I looked out from the choir box and saw the church empty and decided to make a mad dash for it.

The next thing you know, a few minutes later I looked up again and there all of a sudden there were some un-happy people staring at me.

[NY_Mando]

That's funny.

I can't imagine getting busted for playing Hey Joe on Mandolin. I wonder if they knew what it was? Perhaps setting fire to your mandolin gave it away. ;)

So is there any tab for these songs? I wouldn't mind leanring what jbc knows, I can live with Margarittaville.

[Keith Erickson]

That's funny.

I can't imagine getting busted for playing Hey Joe on Mandolin. I wonder if they knew what it was? Perhaps setting fire to your mandolin gave it away. #;)

So is there any tab for these songs? I wouldn't mind leanring what jbc knows, I can live with Margarittaville.
Hi Ken,

I can lóók back now and laugh but at the time, it was slightly embarrassing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anyway if you look at this page: http://www.mandolincafe.com/tabarc.html which is located here at the mandolin cafe, this might be able to assist you.

The main reason why many of us play these rock songs on the mandolin is because many of us were originally guitar players from the rock genre before moving over to the mandolin.

Personally in the early days of the mandolin, it took some time to transpose these song over to the mando but now after doing it a few times, it seems to be pretty easy. Don't sweat over it...

...just take your time and be patient. You'll do fine http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Keith Erickson]

Originally posted by dwc


So, what do you do? Do you play melody lines like that, do you strum or chop chords, or do you play a counter-melody? I am sure most players do all of the above (although not, perhaps, in the dame song). Where and how do you fit the mandolin into rock songs?

I'm a huge Rush fan. However I found it very difficult to adapt Rush to a "bluegrass" mando style.

However I did find that the early Rush like:

Rush- self titled debut album
Rush- Fly By Night
Rush- Caress of Steel (well the ones that I've played)
Rush- 2112

They all of have some heavy guitar that I've learned to convert to chops.

This is where I have learned and branched out from.

My favorite Rush song that I've played on the mandolin is "Here Again" from Rush's Debut Album.

[metalmandolin]

Have you tried "Subdivisions" from Signals? FUN!!!!

[dwc]

It sounds like a lot of people play rock mando like its a guitar. I tend not to play a lot of so called "rhythm mandolin." Runaway Train by Soul Asylum and Uncle Johns Band being notable exceptions where I play primarily 2 finger chords and strum away. The idea of using the mandolin to fill the same space as the keyboards is one that appeals to me. I have been listening to a lot of Phish and Dead and copying McConnell and Midland et al. I really love Standing on the Moon and I have been working on filling the same space a keyboard would, lots of counter melody, quick scalar runs and sort of 1 finger chords, al la Freddie Green. But most of the time, on a heavily improvised piece lite SotM (Or FotM)I just bounce around playing octaves on the tonic of the chord, maybe a 3rd to give it a major/minor sound, but mostly staying simple, sticking to the tonic. Anyone else have tricks for filling up space when not playing the lead?

[dwc]

After rereading my last post, it occurs to me that I am sort of playing mandolin like a bass. My Fire on the Mountain is really just the same thing Lesh is doing on bass, bouncing back and forth between 1 and 5, just in a higher register. I wonder about the validity of anchoring a song from above, rather than below.

[Buxton Bumpkin]

noodleing basically, Eagle live hotel calf. is a easy hero song to play along with, John Hiatt's slow turning has a guy named Dave Immergluck(sp?) on mando, greatstuff to jam to. REM has lots of stuff to do. TRy noodling to Mark Knoffler and you'll appreciate some skill there too.
Off the top of my head

[Perry]

Besides melody lines, chops and double stops I like to play open droney things. Crosspicking is a nice way to add harmony too. Mando can be made to fit on anything!

Here's a partial list of some rock type tunes we play:

Time To Ring Some Changes - Richard Thompson
Walking in your footsteps - Police
I've Just seen a Face - Beatles
Norwegian Wood -
African Skies - Paul Simon
Maggies Farm - Dylan
Breadbox - Norton Buffalo
In God's Country - U2
Take a Giant Step - Taj Mahal
Blue Yodel #9 -
Can Can - Pointer Sisters
Cissy Strut - Meters
Stir it Up - Marley
Signed Sealed Delivered - Stevie
Thankyouforlettinbemicelf - Sly
Pleasant Valley Sunday - Monkees
Solsbury Hill - Peter Gabriel

You can hear some of it here:

http://www.flyingjalapenos.net/media.html

[mandocrucian]

(I assume that we are talking about using an 8-string mando rather than a solid-body 4 or 5-string electric.)

There are several different existing "models" you can listen to for ideas:

1) UK folk-rock (more-or-less): Fairport Convention (Dave Swarbrick, Dave Pegg), Steeleye Span (Peter Knight), Richard Thompson, Lindisfarne (Ray Jackson - who also played on "Maggie Mae"), The Woods Band (Terry Woods); Jethro Tull (Ian Anderson, Dave Pegg, Martin Barre), Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page or John Paul Jones), early Horslips (Charles O'Connor), Tempsest (Lief Sorbye)

2) Blues guys (Yank Rachell, Johnny Young) and rock/roots guys who've got that element in their playing: Ry Cooder, David Lindley, Rory Gallagher, Duke Levine, Fred Tackett, Paul Barrerre (Little Feat), Johnny Winter, John Hiatt (various players),

3) Other: REM (Peter Buck), Seals & Crofts, The Band (Levon Helm), early Rod Stewart, Elton John (Davey Johnstone), Nash The Slash, The Hooters (Eric Bazilian)

4) Bluegrass mando (more-or-less) grafted onto material which is classified as "rock", though the song may be more folk or country or BG in nature, usually as an extra add-on sonic texture, not essential to the performance of the song: Chris Hillman (Byrds, Manassas, Desert Rose, etc), David Grisman (lots of sessions), Albert Lee (Head Hands & Feet, Emmylou Harris), Byron Berline ... and so on.

<span style='color:red'>However I found it very difficult to adapt Rush to a "bluegrass" mando style.</span>
<span style='color:red'>Playing rock (not bluegrass settings of rock songs) on the mando has very little to do with "bluegrass mando". It's trying to play baseball with hockey equipment.</span>

Depending on the nature of the song, either a folk or BG mando style may be compatible with a "rock" song. However, this does not make it "rock mandolin" and mean it will work on other tunes.

Knowing how to play with a drummer is a big step forward. Also knowing/understanding the functions of the instruments in a rock ensemble, allows some of these functions to be redistributed to a mando in whole or part. Almost all those electric guitarists mentioned above that also play mando as a secondary instrument are so used to playing with a drum kit, that it automatically carries over to any other instrument they pick up.

Perhaps you can bypass the transitional stage of emulation of "mandolin tracks" (as played by one of the guitarists above) and go straight to emulating their guitar playing. (or piano/keyboard playing). Which in itself a transitional stage of learning how the alpha instruments function in the genre or subgenre. Eventually the guitar licks mutate into something friendlier to the mando tuning while maintaining a similar fuction/impact.



<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Some of the stuff I mess with:

Jimi Hendrix: The Wind Cries Mary, Purple Haze, Foxy Lady, Stone Free, Little Wing, Fire*, Red House, Wait Til' Tomorrow, Gypsy Eyes,
AC/DC: #Highway To Hell, Money Talks, Thunderstruck, Hells Bells, Back In Black,
Jethro Tull: # Fat Man, Singing All Day, Teacher, Aqualung
Grateful Dead: #Wharf Rat, Sugaree, Deal, Dire Wolf, Big Boss Man, Black Peter
Quicksilver Messenger Service: #Pride Of Man, Who Do You Love, Bears, Cobra

ZZ Top: #Sharp Dressed Man, La Grange
Johnny Winter: #Rock N Roll Hoochie Koo
Cream: Sunshine of Your Love, Crossroads
The Who: My Generation
Rolling Stones: #The Last Time, Honky Tonk Women, Sympathy For The Devil, Jumpin' Jack Flash

Santana: #Oye Como Va
Steppenwolf: Born To Be Wild
SRV: Cold Shot, Pride & Joy
Creedence: #Green River, Proud Mary, Cross Tie Walker, Born On A Bayou
The Doors: Love Me Two Times, Riders On the Storm

Richard Thompson: #Roll Over Vaughan Williams
Byrds: Mr Tambourine Man, Ballad of Easy Rider, Change Is Now
Pink Floyd: #Granchester Meadows
Muddy Waters: #I'm Ready*, I Want To Be Loved, Can't Be Satisfied, One Way Out (actually, the Allman Bros version)</span>

Niles Hokkanen

http://www.elderly.com/images/tiny/recordings/80/MANDOCRUCIAN03.jpg
On Fire & Ready! (http://www.elderly.com/recordings/items/MANDOCRUCIAN03.htm)

[jmcgann]

If you have the right sense of humor, you can play anything on mando or octave mando. The entire Beatles songbook is a big hit at parties, especially when you play an entite album in the right sequence. Most people can't figure out why it works so well on the mando...it's just music played on a musical instrument. It's not like trying to do it on Tuba- we have four strings-just use 'em! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

I posted an mp3 of Steve Howe (Yes) Mood For a Day on mando a while ago...I'm working up the Relayer album for solo mando next http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[metalmandolin]

I like to tune down 3 half-steps. So much heavy rock is played in E that having the bottom pair as an E-B combination helps.
When tuning like this, your C positions become A....which is another prevalent chord in heavy and classic rock. Try this for AC/DCs "Back In Black"....

Tune down 3 half-steps
Then play in the positions of "G"-"FFF"-"CCC"

--631--------------------
------ #5 3/4/3 # 1----------
---------------- # # # 5--------
-------------------------


Then the chords again....then

---------------------------
---------------------------
---0-4--0-5--0-6--0- 7------
----- 4--- #5---- 6---- 7------

Enjoy!!

[Ceomao]

Man, that's what I'm talking about! Drop "F" tuning! Crank it out like it's 1987!

....now if we could just get a "plexi" that is mando friendly.

[Santiago]

Anyone know where I can get lead sheets for Bohemian Rhapsody? I used to know Brian May -- one of the most down-to-earth rock stars (if that's not a contradiction in terms) you'll ever come across. I love what he does with that piece, mixing a classical lead, with slow bends and runs.

[MLT]

Found a version of Bohemian Rhapsody tab (actually several) here Chordie.com (http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.beavertabs.com/index.php?ident=14392628&1944-06-06=always&transpose=&tuning=GDAE)

I hope this is what you were looking for.

[jfbrown42]

I'm a rhythm guitar player (mostly rock) that just picked up the mandolin. So far I've been trying to learn the mandlolin parts of rock songs like Losing My Religion and Maggie May. Sympathy by the Goo Goo Dolls is on my list to learn.

Since I need to learn the chords, I'm also playing blues chord progressions in 'A' (coming soon, .... 'E'). I'm sure I'll try out Hey Joe soon. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[JeffD]

I enjoy just playing along with the CD. Take REM for example, doesn't matter which tune, and play it over and over with mandolin in hand.

Pretty soon I am right there in the middle of it, playing melody, harmony, or just some neat effects. Lots of fun.

The last step is to turn off the CD and just play what you figured out. It sometimes sounds pretty good.

[jfbrown42]

For you rhythm guitarists, "Chordie" is a great web site. You can find a song and transpose it or show mandolin chords with a couple of mouse clicks.

[James P]

I think it's supposed to sound something like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsXrNIM7dIM) #
Don't know who that is, but his mandolin sits in the mix just perfectly, afaic.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Anyone know where I can get lead sheets for Bohemian Rhapsody? I used to know Brian May -- one of the most down-to-earth rock stars (if that's not a contradiction in terms) you'll ever come across. I love what he does with that piece, mixing a classical lead, with slow bends and runs.
In a slight derail, I demand that you tell us when and how you knew Brian May. He's one of my musical idols, and since I've been throwing a lot of Queen into my mandolin (electric) practice regimen lately, I'd love to hear a little bit about the guy.

[Steve Ostrander]

I play mando in a trio with resonator and 6-string gtrs. Besides trad and folk we do:
Tuesday's Gone (Skynrd)
I Know You Rider (Dead)
You Can't Always Get What You Want (Stones)
Wasted Days and Wasted Nights (Freddie Fender)
Going to California (Zeppelin)
Hide Your Love (Beatles)
Norwegian Wood (Beatles)
Ring of Fire (Johnny Cash)

I like the challenge of adapting songs to mand that were written in a different style or w/o mando. It's surprising how well it fits in--but I guess I'm biased. Volume is a challenge when both gtr and resonator are playing. I guess I need a "resonator killer!"

[Larry R]

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" and "Wild Horses" by the Stones both sound great on mandolin. I don't have the picking skill to pull it off, but I'd love to hear someone play "Where The Streets Have No Name" by U2.

"Norwegian Wood" was the first song I ever learned on the mandolin. Christmas Day 2005.

[dwc]

So my question is, if you played "Where the Streets Have no Name" on Mando how would you do it? Would you play chords, single notes,a combo? I am interetsed in how people adapt rock songs to mandolin. Do you play chords, just strumming away, or do you you play melody lines? Do you change in the middle? For instance, my rock repertoire is pretty limited, but I will give a couple of examples
1) Casey Jones (Greatful Dead) I play the melody, mimicing the vocal phrases while my friend plays rhythm. No vocals, strictly instrumental
2) Let my Love Open the Door (Pete Townsend) We both strum full on, with a break for each during the bridge. He sings vocals
3) Brown Eyed Girl (Van Morrison) I play the intro hook and just vamp little frills and filler harmony lines while he sings and plays rhythm.
4) Uncle John's Band (Greatful Dead)I play intro and we both play rhythm while he sings.
5) Distantly in Love (Jimmy Buffett)The only song we regulrly play that actually has mando in it. I pretty much mimic the mando while he playes and sings. For those of you who haven't heard that means cross-picking the chords and tremelo through the refrain and the bridge.

[Kid Charlemagne]

So my question is, if you played "Where the Streets Have no Name" on Mando how would you do it? Would you play chords, single notes,a combo? I am interetsed in how people adapt rock songs to mandolin. Do you play chords, just strumming away, or do you you play melody lines? Do you change in the middle?
I'm a U2 nut, so I've tried this a few times. It sort of works, and sort of doesn't.

Since the opening riff is a simple arpeggiated D chord (albeit w/guitar voicing), it's not all that hard to get it, particularly because the delay helps mask the finger movement.

The chords aren't much of an issue for most U2 on the mandolin. I wish I had my instrument sitting here to consult, but from what I remember, I've usually just comped the chords to something close. Since Edge typically favors chords using the root and 5th, and tends to avoid the 3rd (particularly for a lot of those JT tunes), you can get them out of a mandolin without much trouble.

Personally, I try not to hybridize guitar-to-mandolin parts with the vocals/melody. I figure if I'm going to do it, I'm going to get as close as I can to the guitar part. It sometimes means that some guitar parts are just untouchable on mandolin, but it's surprising how much you can adapt. Since I'm trying very hard to make the electric mandolin my main instrument, but still play in a contemporary rock setting instead of bluegrass/country, I've figured out a lot of tricks that seem to work. I'm sure they're nothing new, but it's still fun to come up with a new way to play a song.

When I play a lot with my brothers, they're always after me to play funk and various 80s tunes, and I often find myself getting a bit frustrated with them. All they have to do is play the parts that were written. I usually don't know the fingerings for the song even on guitar, so not only do I have to figure out the tunes' fingerings for mandolin, but I have to substitute chords and phrases on the fly. It's a great exercise, but it can get tiresome.

Try some Steely Dan sometime, it's surprisingly easy on the mandolin. And although Queen isn't the hardest thing on the guitar, a lot of it is even easier on the mandolin, although you have to try some fairly innovative fingerings to pull it off. "Tie Your Mother Down" is great fun if you have a 5-string. I play the opening riff something like this (thanks, TablEdit!)

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/tbissett/tymd_th.gif (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l75/tbissett/tymd.gif)