Nut problems

[TEE]

My G string buzzes at the nut. I can put a little piece of paper under it and it quits but I was wondering the easiest way to correct this. I have put paper under the G strings for twenty years and it just started to bother me now. Any help would be appreciated.

[otterly2k]

well, the answer to your question is "yes". If this is working (and it seems to have worked for 20 years), then it is, in fact, the easiest way to correct the problem.

I'm wondering why it's bothering you now?

If you want, there are other ways to fill in the slot. Or you could replace the nut with a new, re-slotted one. But honestly, if the little piece of paper method works and has no downside other than your KNOWING that it's a little piece of paper, why change it??

[Greg H.]

Well. . . .

The best way to fix it is have an experienced luthier/repair man replace the nut.

The second best way would be to have said luthier/repair man put a thin shim of maple underneath the nut and file it if necessary.

The third best way, and by far the least expensive, would be to put a small piece of paper underneath the string. . . http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rick Lindstrom]

If the nut is not already too low, someone who knows what they are doing could probably fix this in 10 minutes or less by filing the proper back angle into the string slots.

Rick

[Paul Hostetter]

Rick could be very right. Is it buzzing because it's hitting the first fret?

Even if it's not really very quick, shimming a nut is an unsightly quick-and-dirty, about like putting a piece of paper under the string. But you can repair an otherwise decent nut - or at least a competent luthier can. Not taking into account the learning curve, the simplest of tools to do the job right will cost more than a good repairperson's time.

http://www.lutherie.net/nut.repair.jpg

http://www.lutherie.net/nutslot3.jpg

[Bernie Daniel]

Paul on your last note you show the ideal nut-string interface rounded to match the string radius.

I think you have shown this diagram before and it makes sense to have the fullest contact but as standard nut files are "squared off" how do you achieve this for each string esp the smaller ones?

Also to raise the string in the nut a bit. #Why not just fill in the slot with a bit of white epoxy and then file it back down to the depth you need? # Would look much nicer.

Certainly epoxy is harder than paper in any case.

[sunburst]

Not Paul here, but here are a couple of answers to a couple of questions.
First of all, "standard" nut files are not square, they have round edges. That's why we call them nut files, though technically, they have a name that I can't remember, and were sort of borrowed by the lutherie community as nut files (most of them). They file a rounded slot that works just fine.

The slot that Paul shows is cut with a saw with a kerf the same width (or very nearly the same width) as the string diameter. Once a piece of matching material (bone or whatever) is inlaid and a new slot flied, the repair is invisible, with the instrument strung up (and virtually invisible with no strings), and the slot will support the string and wear similarly to the rest of the nut.

[Paul Hostetter]

A further answer: I don't use standard nut files. I use mousetail files for the wound strings, and a couple of different triangular jeweler's files using specific technique to sculpt the slots for the plain strings.

Epoxy makes a wretched surface for a string to rest on in a nut. Much too soft and sticky. I don't even like to resort to CA, except in an emergency. It's so easy to put real bone (or even pearl) under a string anyway, and as John says, it's quite invisible.

[brunello97]

Nice diagrams, Paul!

Mick

[Bernie Daniel]

Sunburst: First of all, "standard" nut files are not square, they have round edges. That's why we call them nut files, though technically, they have a name that I can't remember, and were sort of borrowed by the lutherie community as nut files (most of them). They file a rounded slot that works just fine.


Hey John can you clarify that a bit?

I recently bought a bunch of files for nut making from StewMac -- a set big files for shaping the bone and a set smaller, sized "nut files" for cutting the slots.

I used them last week with the Frets.com advice to shape and then cut a nut from a bone blank for an octave mando.

It was my first one but it went really well and I ended up with exactly what I wanted in terms of inter- and intra-course spacings. #It plays well on the instrument too. #In the end it was a great experience.

But those nut files are definately squared off (right angle corners) on all edges.

[Stephanie Reiser]

Hey John can you clarify that a bit?
I recently bought a bunch of files for nut making from StewMac --
But those nut files are definately squared off (right angle corners) on all edges.
Bernie, this is not John, but I also bought those SM nut-slot files and mine are rounded at the bottom. But you had me wondering so I went to Stew-Mac's site and pasted this paragraph from the file's description:

>Nut Slotting File
>Our tempered edge-cut nut files help produce round-bottom >slots, to ensure that the strings seat properly in the >nut. Each chrome-alloy steel file has twin 4" cutting >edges.

[Bernie Daniel]

AmandadLynn: but I also bought those SM nut-slot files and mine are rounded at the bottom.

I just took a close look at my 0.042" file under about 8X magnification and yes, there is a modest beveling or rounding of the edges.

As to each file has "twin" cutting edges they actually appear slighly different on the one file I examined under mangnification -- with one edge being more "rounded" than the other --perhaps by design. #

But my original statment that the edges were square was incorrect.

[sunburst]

I have a set of the Stewmac nut files and mine are round-edged.
I've seen and used other round-edged files that I think I like better than the Stewmac ones, but I don't know where to get them.

[Paul Hostetter]

The mousetail files I use are tapered. At their fattest they're about .060" and if you don't break the tips off, they go down to about .018", which is really fine. I get them from Shar, but they're made by (or at least stamped) Grobet, which is a brand easily found in jeweler's supply places as well. I have larger tapered round files for bass strings and so on, but these tiny jobs from Shar/M&M are really the ticket. They are considerably more versatile than the commercial nut files.

Again, I use a couple of sizes of triangular files, which I carefully rotate side to side to adjust the diameter of the slot. Between these two files, there's no string I can't dial in quickly and accurately.

[Bill Halsey]

Agree with Paul, Grobet tapered round needle (mousetail) files are the ticket. Because of their taper, I like to sneak up to the front of the nut from the headstock side when finishing a groove in order to get the precise radius I need at the point where the string leaves the nut.

Try MSC for Grobet files. Also, Rio Grande jewellers supply.

[sunburst]

I have one of those little round Grobet files, as well as triangular and half round. I'm a little too heavy handed to feel comfortable using those for nut slots, I figure I'd eventually break them, so I save them for delicate things like touching up pearl inlays and little detail things like that.

[911guitars]

Am I correct that you are saying the nut slot(s) is cut too low?
Loosen the strings associated with the offending slots, and move them out of the way. Put "just a tad bit" of ordinary super glue in the slot(s) that are low. Let dry overnight. Check the height, dress carefully with a small triangular file. Repeat until you get it right.

[Bill Halsey]

The tiny file tips certainly are easily broken off. I find that it helps to keep a fingertip right over the point of contact, and try to cut only on the push stroke. I use a 5" #6 for the final shaping of the D & G grooves, and a tiny slitting file for the A & E.

[Paul Hostetter]

I bought six of Shar's latest Grobet files a couple of years ago, and have them strewn around the shop with ginchy glow-in-the-dark handles, getting used about equally. Only one tip has broken so far, they're remarkably resilient. The broken one is now parked in the cello setup zone.

I forgot to mention my diamond pearl files, which are even sharper than the Grobets. They're made for dressing and enlarging holes in pearls, and they are the best for pearl nuts. They seem very flexible as well. The tips bend and you can just bend them back. Nice. The tips are about .014".

I'll say it again: CA is a low-grade repair for nuts. It is acrylic plastic, and is at best only as hard as Plexiglas, which is simply not adequate for nuts. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[TEE]

Thanks for all the help- To answer the question about why it just now has started to bother me- My eyes have gotten so bad that it has become a job just putting strings on. I can't see close up anymore.
What used to be a quick fix with the paper has now become harder as I used to fix the paper so that it was not noticable but now it takes longer to do and people say whats that on your strings because the paper is bigger. I also play with a much lower action and I find it harder to get rid of the buzz now. I can not take it to a luthier right now because I am not working at present. Thanks

[James P]

If the string isn't buzzing on fret one, what's the downside to being "too low"?

I borrowed some Grobes and lowered my Eastman and#while I hadn't noticed any Tone hit, if filing the top of the nut down a bit makes even a bit of difference tonally, I'll do it. #TIA.

[Bill Halsey]

I forgot to mention my diamond pearl files, which are even sharper than the Grobets. They're made for dressing and enlarging holes in pearls, and they are the best for pearl nuts. They seem very flexible as well. The tips bend and you can just bend them back. Nice. The tips are about .014".

This is a great tip, Paul -- thanks so much for sharing it.

[TEE]

Well last night I bought some super glue gel for one dollar at dollar general. I put this on the G string nut slot as 911 guitar suggested. Today I did not have a file so I took a used G string and sort of sawed a little groove in and it worked perfect so far. Thanks