Cross-picking and singer songwriter stuff

[hattio]

Folks,
A weekly jam is starting up here that generally features more singer-songwriter stuff rather than the bluegrass/old country I'm more used to. I find that I'm not really happy with the rhythm stuff I'm playing behind these guys. I typically use movable barre chords, and just kind of strum the rhythm, sometimes using little licks to shift chords.
I'm wondering if cross-picking is something folks find useful in this situation? Also, I've tried the Mel Bay intro to mandolin section on cross-picking and really struggled with it (I don't have the record/CD that's supposed to come with the book). Is there any instructional material out there in regards to cross-picking that I should look at, or should I just tackle the Mel Bay again?
Finally, I'm open to other ideas for spicing up the rhythm a little bit. I guess I should mention that often times they are playing capoed up several frets, so using several voicings for the same chord is not really an option for my feeble brain (though maybe it's something I should work on).

[EdSherry]

One thing I do a lot behind singer/guitarists is playing two-note double-stops and counterpoint lines, generally on the middle strings (D-A).

Try John McGann's Rhythm Mandolin video. #Lots of good ideas there.

Mickey Cochran has a "Mandolin Crosspicking" book on Mel Bay that is tune-oriented, but there's some useful stuff on backup. #Be warned that not everyone agrees with his pick-direction suggestions for cross-picking.

Also, check out Jethro Burns' Complete Mandolin book/CD set on Mel Bay. #Lots of great ideas for spicing up your backup playing.

Click here for a basic lesson on cross-picking from Anthony Hannigan. He's got some other good lessons on musicmoose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmKg2TEr1TY&mode=related&search=)

[mandroid]

double stops, Maj and min intervals, can work like a harmony backup vocalist were humming or scat singing behind the lead vocalist.

If there were a CD companion made with a Mel Bay book, replacements can be purchased from the publisher .

[Jeroen]

When I think and listen back to what I did behind singer-songwriters I always do too much.
I have to tell myself to remember that a singer-songwriter usually is a singer-songwriter because he (or she) doesn't want a full band and often no solid rhythm at all.

Cross string pattern picking (...) is, like a banjo, very dominant rhythmically. Most singer-songwriters will like little twinkles and small pieces of nice melody stuff. Or a little riff as a signature for a song. Just enough to give every song a little personal touch.

Most singer-songwriters will like little twinkles and small pieces of nice melody stuff. Or a little riff as a signature for a song. Just enough to give every song a little personal touch.
Tell me about it. I recently arranged a song for a friend of mine who writes great lyrics and melodies, but isn't much of a musician. I added a bunch of jazz substitutions, a bass part, and an instrumental solo section. She hated it. Perhaps she felt like the piece didn't belong to her anymore...

[hattio]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I should clarify that this jam is mostly NOT people doing originals, but doing more the acoustic finger-picking singer songwriter stuff that you would hear on the radio...back in the 70's.

[John Flynn]

I'm just passing along advice I have gotten from musicians I have respect for, and what has worked well for me: Your priority needs to be to support the singer or the instumental soloist when they are singing/playing. That usually requires strumming with a simple, regular rhythm an appropriate volume. On the mandolin, it also generally means emphasizing the bass strings and just hitting the treble strings occasionally. To paraphrase John McGann, contstant treble on the on the mandolin only attracts biting insects! Also, special effects like crosspicking, tremolo, double stops, melody and harmony playing is often distracting to vocalists, especially if they are not really proficient a singing with a band backing them up. If they are done over vocals, they should be light and sparse. I would also be careful of chopping, unless it is a bluegrass or bluegrass-like tune.

The place to shine in that kind of a jam is in the spaces between vocal phrases and instrumental solo phrases. That's where you should throw in the special effects like crosspicking, as tasteful "fills." Then if you take an instrumental solo, or course, you get to do what you want.