Gibson logo

[fredfrank]

I have a question on the age of a Gibson mandolin. A friend of mine has an F5 he says is from 1928. The peghead has the traditional Fern inlay with 'The Gibson' script, but the label inside the upper F-hole has this logo on it. I told him I didn't think that logo was in use until the forties. What do you Cafe experts say?

[Goodin]

Thats the same logo that was on my 1950 A-40. Not sure when they started using that logo but it was probably mid late 40's is my guess. If you can read the serial number you can for sure date it down to the year.

[MikeEdgerton]

From the Gibson website:

[fredfrank]

Good info, Mike. The confusing part is that the peghead has the script while the label has the block logo. I suppose the peghead could have been redone. I have no access to the instrument at this time to see what the serial number is.

[MikeEdgerton]

I would think that the label could have been redone as well. Look at the actual logo inside and apply the rules that deal with the dot on the "i" to it. That will date the label. Keep in mind that the label could have been changed on a trip to the Gibson factory to be repaired. The repair ethic has changed over the years.

[bradeinhorn]

perhaps it was some type of conversion. something about it is definately not 28 if it has that logo. probably late 40's early 50's with an old neck slapped on.

[olddavy]

Maybe the mando was sent to the shop and repaired...could be at that time the newer lable was applied

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually it could be that a conversion neck was installed ala Randy Wood.

[fredfrank]

Good theory, Mike. This mandolin was regraduated by Randy Wood. I suppose it's possible he also worked on the neck or at least the headstock veneer. If I understand the serial number system, I believe this mandolin to be from 1948 since the first two numbers are 84.

[MikeEdgerton]

It may be one of his famous F12 conversions.

[f5loar]

I'm not surprised your friend thinks his F5 is from '28. With so many and I do mean so many fakes,copies,knock-offs,conversions using the 20's Gibson logo in the top many have been fooled into thinking they have something they simply do not. While most fakes are easy to spot to even less educated mandofatics, sometimes it does take an expert to determine it's origin like in this one possbily being an postwar F12 conversion. Good guess but without good detailed photos or hands on inspections we are just guessing. My father always told me never to argue with a crazy man so if you friend believes he has a '28 best let it go at that. Deep down he probably knows it's not and hopes to fool the next mandofatic that comes along.

[f5loar]

Also you say the serial number starts with 84 but you don't give us how many digits after that. If it is 84XXX it could indeed be 1928 with a newer label but if it is 84XX it would be 1951.
If it is A-84XX on a white label would still be 1951. And if it is 84XXXX on an orange label it could be 1966 or 1969. See why the average person just can't date a vintage Gibson by a serial number. How did you come up with 1948 based on it starting with 84?

[mrmando]

84xxx would be '26 or '27, wouldn't it? If that was the real serial number, that is.

Sounds a lot like this one (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=40718;st=0), down to the label and the neck replacement.

[fredfrank]

Also you say the serial number starts with 84 but you don't give us how many digits after that. If it is 84XXX it could indeed be 1928 with a newer label but if it is 84XX it would be 1951.
If it is A-84XX on a white label would still be 1951. And if it is 84XXXX on an orange label it could be 1966 or 1969. See why the average person just can't date a vintage Gibson by a serial number. How did you come up with 1948 based on it starting with 84?
I have a 2003 Fern. The serial number starts with 30 . . .I had heard the first two digits were the year of manufacture, only backwards. I believe the label was a dingy white, but it may have been orange.

The fellow who has it has no desire to sell it, so I'm sure he's not looking to fool anyone. It was his brother's mandolin. They played bluegrass music together for more than forty years. His brother gave it to him just before he died.

[f5loar]

What you heard applys only to Gibsons made after 1993. Before that the code varies from year to year and decade to decade with overlaps in decades. Some years had 2 codes. Loars are the easiest to date since Loar wrote the actual date on a label but that only lasted 3 years. And after 1971 they started the actual signed date label again in F5s and continues today. Your 2003 Fern should have a dated signed by someone label in addition to a Master Model serial number label.
If his label was dingy white with a post war logo on it sounds like it might be a paste over from the factory of a '28 Fern or a 50's F12 or F5 conversion. Photos here would unlock the mystery. Next time you see him take a good front and back photo and post it here along with full serial number. Also see if label says F5 or F12.

[f5loar]

mrmando, because Gibson had a fire in the 30's that destroyed their production records the post Loar serial numbers up to the 30's are guess work done by several authorities over the years. They came up with an estimate break off point on these late 20's years but recently a confirmed date by Gibson on NO. 83660 shows a manufacture date of 8/27/1928. So his 84XXX could be late 1928 or even early 1929 depending on the rest of the numbers. The old date would be 1927 so they were not off too bad. And keep in mind factory order numbers vs serial numbers can be 2 years apart. I have a Fern started in late 1934 and given an early 1936 serial number. I call it a 1935. 1936 would be the last of the prewar Ferns as 1937 starts the new flowerpots.