Who is acoustically pure?

[G'DAE]

Can anyone claim they don't even use an electronic tuner?....Who's P U R E ?

[peterbc]

Well... I don't own one. At home, I tune to an electric metronome, at jams I'll try tuning to others, but sometimes due to noise restrictions I'll borrow a clip on tuner. So... by todays standards, I'd say I'm pretty pure http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bradley]

I dont think that using a electronic tuner makes you unpure....I feel that only the "plug in" of your instrument,using chorus/delay electronics,etc cross the line though.

I do know some old timers that would argue about tuner thing though http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Scotti Adams]

..never owned one...never had..thank god my ears and sense of tone and pitch have served me well "down through the years"...and I can only hope they continue to do so...so yes..I guess you can call me a purist..

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

I held on for a million years until one day last year I got repeatedly pointed at (and it wasn't for a solo!) and then expelled from the stage. There was no convincing anyone that day that I could be in tune without a tuner.
Went out and got a tuner.
'The harder they come, the harder they fall.'

[garyblanchard]

I used to tune up everything to my harmonicas until the night I was in a noisy club trying to tune the mandolin and couldn't hear well. Went out and bought the intelletouch clip-on tuner.

I don't plug in anything as this point. It's not a matter of being "pure" though. I switch between guitar, banjo, mandolin, and ukulele throughout a performance and it just gets too complicated with a bunch of cords. I do like the unplugged sound better, but that is personal preference and not a judgement on those who choose to plug up.

[mrbook]

I bought an electronic tuner to tune my wife's autoharp - it saves hours of time. Like another post, I don't think that is being impure - and it's not a crime to be in tune. When performing, our group plays through one microphone, no effects, and wouldn't have it any other way for the music we are playing. don't know if we are trying to be pure, but we like keeping things simple.
When tuning my banjo with an electronic tuner, I notice that the microphone never picks up the banjo notes - I need the clip-on pcikup. That leads me to believe that there really are no notes on a banjo.

[AlanN]

When at home, tuning fork. When at a jam or gig, the clip.

[John Flynn]

..never owned one...never had..thank god my ears and sense of tone and pitch have served me well "down through the years"...and I can only hope they continue to do so...
I don't doubt you, Scotti, and that is truly something to be proud of. However, I play with some otherwise decent players who talk the same rap, but they are always either out of tune or take forever to get in tune. Yet they refuse to buy a tuner! I have a good sense of pitch also, but figure I am more interested in playing than tuning. Anything that gets me to the playing more quickly and accurately I am in favor of. #

As far a being "pure," why single out the tuner as the enemy of "purity?" If one bit of electronics is bad, logically they all should be. So what about microphones, PA's, amps, recorders and music software. Why, just being on this website might damn you as impure. Then beyond electronics, there is sheet music, tab and any kind of formal music theory which at least one OT mando instructor I had thought were the enemy of traditional purity.

A few years ago, my church music group lost our leader and hired a new leader who is a professional guitarist and who is ABD on his PHD in music. Coming from a classical background, when he started with us, he refused to use a tuner, a strap or a pickup on his guitar for purist reasons. Within 6 months of joining us, he was using all three. I kidded him about "selling out." He said words to the effect, "I had no idea how hard it is to do a good job of both leading and playing in a choir, especially with the challenging tunes we do. Anything I can do keep the workload down, I am now all for."

The "tuner/purity" concept kind of reminds me of the hue and cry that arose when they started letting math students use calculators. To hear the critics, we would have a generation of kids who couldn't add. My two "calculator kids" understood more math in high school than I ever got to in college!

[John Ely]

What is this that you are talking about - "in tune" and "tuning up?" Is it important?

[floyd floar]

you guys can tune (tame) your mandos? That is really sumptin. I think it was John Hartford who said "mandolin" was Italian for out-of-tune. Believe it or not Ripley, I use the dial tone on my phone- up in these parts they're tuned to F. Gotta go do some yardwork b4 the wife gets home. ciao

[John Flynn]

What is this that you are talking about - "in tune" and "tuning up?" Is it important?
Excuse me, but I think you want the "Banjo Players Anonymous" site! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
http://clickit.go2net.com/search?....to=http (http://clickit.go2net.com/search?pos=9&ppos=0&plnks=0&uplnks=10&cat=web&cid=264871&site=srch&area=srch.noncomm.teoma&shape=textlink&cp=websrch.iepan.main&cluster-click=0&pd=0&coll=1&query=+ron+banjo+help&rawto=http://tm.wc.ask.com/r?t=an&s=dp&uid=24296025242960252&sid=34296025242960252&qid=9C3C1C424DCFA74ABE93FD179DA9077B&io=0&sv=za5cb0de2&o=0&ask=ron+banjo+help&uip=42960252&en=te&eo=-100&pt=Banjo+Players+Anonymous&ac=24&qs=0&pg=1&ep=1&te_par=102&te_id=&u=http://doodoowah.com/BanjoPlayersAnon.htm)

[Ken Sager]

There is nothing "un-pure" in using a tuner, capo, effects, amplifiers, dancing girls, or bio-diesel. Use it or don't use it, like it or don't like it.

We all have our preferences, but it's silly to assign some arbitrary puritan attitude about musicianship, skill, ear, or what-have-you simply to whether anybody uses a tuner.

There is no shame in using a tuner. There is (and should be) shame in playing out of tune.

Love to all,
Ken

[pathfinder]

Well said, Ken. #It's better to know you're in tune! #But I guess some folks still smack their clothes on a rock down by the creek (it's more 'pure' than them electric washing machines). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[garyblanchard]

Well said, Ken. #It's better to know you're in tune! #But I guess some folks still smack their clothes on a rock down by the creek (it's more 'pure' than them electric washing machines). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Reminds me of one of my favorite John Hartford songs,"Good Old Electric Washing Machine." #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I agree that the acoustic purity thing can be taken too far. As long as I'm pleasing myself and an audience I don't care what the purists think.

[cutbait2]

electronic tuners are a godsend, especially for novices.......i like all the talk about acoustic purity, and playing around one mic, although it seems that one mic is usually plugged into a 50000 watt amplifier.

[garyblanchard]

I was just reading a book on music and was reading about the difference in music once the microphone was introduced. We went from the "sing to the back of the room" stylings of Al Jolson and Eddie Cantor to the more intimate croonings of Bing Crosby. Electronics are not evil. (Just for the record, there are several Al Jolson and Eddie Cantor songs that I am working on right now. I am not dissing them.)

I like the one-mic setup simply becuase it is less cluttered on the stage. I feel less like I'm in a cage this way.

[Ken Sager]

How many of you acoustic purists own a CD player? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

There are good arguments for simplicity, and minimizing clutter, noise, etc., but thinking it is more "pure" in any way is silliness.

I'm not against silliness, either. I'm just in favor of recognizing it for what it is.

Love to all,
Ken

[rhetoric]

What is this that you are talking about - "in tune" and "tuning up?" Is it important?
Ely -- Thanks for the belly laugh.

You all know, deep down, that electric tuners are evil. The question is, how would you rank the following evils? Here are mine in reverse order:
4) capo
3) electric tuner
2) amplification
1) canned music in church

Biggest evil: #Thinking that they way you prefer to tune, listen to music, select songs, arrange songs are the best way for anyone else.

[Ken Sager]

2nd Biggest Evil: Dualistic view of Us vs Them (especially if Them is Evil). We're all in this together folks so let's tune em up and pick one, shall we?! Who's gonna kick it off?

Joy to all,
Ken

[ourgang]

There's nothing wrong with progress. Not everyone is blessed with perfect pitch, so the electronic tuners are a godsend. Before the electronic tuners people used pitch pipes or A-440 tuning forks. What's the difference? Want to get away from tradition? Martin Guitars now have an adjustable truss rod, greatest advance that Martin has made since 1833. My music is hard core Bluegrass, just as triditional as you can get but I will continue to use my Intellitouch tuner as long as I can find batteries for it.

[Michael H Geimer]

Seems to me that playing strickly acoustic instruments, and playing them sans electronic amplification, sans TAB, etc. *is* more pure than our modern methods. But, that doesn't make it better. "Pure" and "better" are not synonymns, last time I checked. I'd prefer a snoot of Congac over pure grain achohol any day!

Last night I was feeling rather "pure" as worked on fiddle tunes, trying to find those 'ancient tones'.

Then I switched on Colonial House, and realized that if I were actually that "pure" (puritanical) I wouldn't have one free moment to sit around pickin' fiddle tunes.

I'll be keeping my compfy couch, thank you very much.

- Benig

[GVD]

Tuners? Truth be known that all ye who use instruments are infidels!!!

Sincerely,
A. Cappella

[garyblanchard]

Ya'll know I can't be pure. I play the banjo.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Bruce Evans]

You want pure? I'm the purest of all youse guys! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I SING! A capella, too. I don't need no stinkin' mandolin to make music, nor geetar, nor nothin else.

Sure sounds nice when those other instruments join in though. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Tocotodo - I hope you aren't like those heretics, the barbershoppers who use a pitch pipe. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Big Joe]

I think it is great to tune without using help, but my experience is most who tune without a reference but their own ear may have the instrument in tune with itself, but not in tune with everyone else. One of the reasons I began using electronic tuners years ago was to ensure everyone was tuned the same. It is also nice to be able to tune or check tuning when everyone else is playing and you cannot possibly hear yourself tune. I think real purity is everyone being in tune with each other and picking instead of tuning. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[mandough]

Hey Big Joe,
I read that article on the "Digital Guitar" by you fab Gibson folks.
If you guys can make that, can't you make a mandolin that tunes itself? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anyways, whenever I'm accused of being out of tune, I always blame it on "Gremlins from the Kremlin". Silly ain't it?

[Bruce Evans]

Tocotodo - I hope you aren't like those heretics, the barbershoppers who use a pitch pipe. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
As a matter of fact, I am a barbershopper. I don't use a pitch pipe, but, ahh... all the other guys that I sing with do. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[BigJoe]

Someone actually approached me recently with an idea on an automatic tuner for instruments. Once they realized everything involved and the potential return they were a little less excited. Who knows. Tomorrows reality are just todays dreams.

[mrbook]

Awhile ago, I ran into a friend I played with 20 years ago. He has remained "acoustically pure" - his current group won't play anyplace where he needs a sound system. Another friend won't - can't - use a tuner because the lights confuse him; he also can't record on his VCR, and his wife prints out his e-mail for him (we were afraid he was the Unabomber until the other guy was caught). Are these people better? The guys who inspired most of us in music never asked those questions - they just wanted to play and be heard.

[JeffS]

I tune using an A - 440 tuning fork. I've had it since around 1980 when I got my first guitar. Occasionally I will tune up using some midi files I have on my computer. One of these days I'll get an electric tuner. I have a Zoom effects pedal that I use on my electric guitars but it requires a line in so I can't use it with the mando. I've downloaded a couple of tuner programs but I haven't found one that I like. I don't have a decent mic either so that doesn't help. Tuning fork works great though.

[mandobsessed]

I just tune to myself and let everyone else tune to me cause I have the most strings! One day a friend brought a harp to the jam and I had an identity crisis. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif