Monroe box reviewed

[Peter Hackman]

The latest (last?) Monroe box from Bear Family receives a very candid
review in the latest issue of Country Music People (UK).

One fact (?) that I don't remember (it's been long since I heard Master of Bluegrass) is that My Last Days on Earth is out of tune.

The reviewer of course puts down the And Friends album completely
(except for Skaggs' contribution). I just wonder how many of the guests
were really his friends and why J Cash's tribute was one of his own songs
in a hopeless range. It was a commercial success at a time when
(is that in the book?) Monroe's records were selling something like
a couple thousand each. Isn't it a pity that Decca/MCA didn't drop him
earlier. The Osborne Brothers certainly profited from going to CMH.

The reviewer is much kinder on Bluegrass '87 and Southern Flavor
but does not discuss the way Monroe's voice is mixed down on several numbers of the former album. He does dwell a bit on all the editing
of the latter. Apparently Monroe went sour on many takes.
But my own impression was that he really struggled with the
high g's on White Rose and that he used falsetto or semi-falsetto
extensively to make up for his loss of range and power.

We know from the Mountain Stage CD how Monroe
*really* sounded at the time - every note was an adventure.

[AlanN]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[f5loar]

Hummm..... no mention of some of Monroe's best written instrumentals of his lifetime. He was near death when he wrote Last days so no surprise it was out of tune! No doubt this is not the boxset you get when you want to find out about Monroe. It is for the purist die-hard fan that has to have it all! He does have out a dozen or so Greatest Hits complations in which none of these songs are on there. If you read the booklet it explains the disappointment the producers had in Monroe's final recordings even going out and stopping the release of a live gospel recording done in a cavern.

[Alex Orr]

One fact (?) that I don't remember (it's been long since I heard Master of Bluegrass) is that My Last Days on Earth is out of tune.
According to Richard Smith's biography of Monroe, the tune was written in the early-mid '70s. #Monroe couldn't sleep one night and got up to play his mandolin. #The mandolin was sitting in his living room where a fire had been burning due to the extreme cold that night. #According to the story, the fluctuations in temp (and probably dryness) screwed up the tuning on the thing something horrible. #In an effort to explore the odd new "tuning", Big Mon basically stumbled upon a hybridized E minor tuning and wrote the tune in one sitting. #However, he felt it was something he needed to keep until a later time to record. #He recorded it (I think) in the early '80s, after his first big near-death scare (not including his severe auto accident in the '50s) so in actuality it was put down on record a full decade before his actual passing. Furthermore, his mandolin was supposedly not "out of tune" but simply tuned in a very unusual alternate tuning.

[Peter Hackman]

Hummm..... no mention of some of Monroe's best written instrumentals of his lifetime. He was near death when he wrote Last days so no surprise it was out of tune! No doubt this is not the boxset you get when you want to find out about Monroe. It is for the purist die-hard fan that has to have it all! He does have out a dozen or so Greatest Hits complations in which none of these songs are on there. If you read the booklet it explains the disappointment the producers had in Monroe's final recordings even going out and stopping the release of a live gospel recording done in a cavern.
Couldn't get everything in. The reviewer calls the
instrumentals "gems" and notes that a few of them have become
standards.

And I do think he puts the box in proper perspective.

It's a very serious and honest review.

[Spruce]

"We know from the Mountain Stage CD how Monroe
*really* sounded at the time - every note was an adventure."

Yeah, but he was 78, and attempting a vocal style that depends on having the high-end of your range semi-intact.
And singing the tunes in the same key as he did 30 years earlier...

"He was near death when he wrote Last days so no surprise it was out of tune!"

I don't think Bill is "out of tune" on MLDOE"...
He's just in a tuning that might tweak the ear of musically challenged folks. #
Like music critics, for instance.... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

It is not possible to criticize the release of "Master of Bluegrass" on CD, IMHO.

I listen to music in dozens of genres, and "MOB" topped the list of LPs that remained--for some unexplicable reason--unreleased on CD.
For 27 years or so.....

Mind boggling, really....

Got a link to that review?

[Peter Hackman]

"We know from the Mountain Stage CD how Monroe
*really* sounded at the time - every note was an adventure."

Yeah, but he was 78, and attempting a vocal style that depends on having the high-end of your range semi-intact. #
And singing the tunes in the same key as he did 30 years earlier...



Got a link to that review?
I don't mean this in an entirely derogatory way - on hearing that CD
I was astonished that he sang which such abandon compared
to the records.

Numbers like Muleskinner and Blue Moon are in the familiar keys,
but Beautiful Life is one step lower than the Decca recording
and in a slightly different arrangement.


CMP is a paper magazine; they don't even have excerpts on their home page

[Jim Broyles]

I love Bill Monroe, and his playing, more than any other mandolin player's, has greatly influenced my own playing, but I can't stand My Last Days on Earth. The harmony is just not my taste whatsoever. I'd still like to get this set.

[Jonathan Peck]

Hey Pete thanks for the heads up on the box set. The Bear family has now completed the Monroe catalog with this latest realease. For the person who would like to have every recording ever made by Monroe, you can. I don't think you could say the same for any other bluegrass artist.....now, if someone asks me what I was playing, I can say I was doing Monroe....the later years http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

-jonathan

[cooper4205]

if this one is even half as good as the 1959-1969 Bear Family 4CD set, it'd be worth it.

[f5loar]

Comparing 1959 Monroe to 1989 Monroe is like comparing a ..... well you get my drift. He was running out of steam. One only need to listen to Rawhide 30 years apart to tell the difference. Bear family could still come out with live shows! Monroe is only dead, he's not out of material to release a new CD however I suspect Monroe will run out before Elvis.

[evanreilly]

'My Last Days...' is in some flavor of C#minor tuning; it is not 'out of tune!'
And yes, for the completest Monroe collector, the last Bear Box set is a must-have.
But there are still unreleased recordings still in the can.

[Peter Hackman]

Comparing 1959 Monroe to 1989 Monroe is like comparing a ..... well you get my drift. He was running out of steam. One only need to listen to Rawhide 30 years apart to tell the difference. #Bear family could still come out with live shows! Monroe is only dead, he's not out of material to release a new CD however I suspect Monroe will run out before Elvis.
Ther are at least two periods that are poorly documented on record.


One is the '63 group with BIll Keith; live recordings show that he could do a LOT more than play fiddle tunes note for note. I've heard a live tape,
a copy of a copy of a copy etc.,
from Bean Blossom, same group as on Grisman's collection.

Neil Rosenberg, who managed the Jamboree at the time, has donated his
tape collection to the Library of Congress.
There may be some hidden gems there. The tape I heard has Pretty Fair Maid, Turkey in the Straw,
and You Won't Be Satisfied years before they were recorded,
and Gospel Plow. Del McCourey sings Walking the Dog and Dark Hollow.


The other is the group with Greene, Rowan, Grier. There is a show from
U of Wisconsin that is far superior to the Decca album. Richard Greene
mentions that show in one of J Moss' interviews as particularly
representative of what the band could do at the time.

[GTison]

[QUOTE]One only need to listen to Rawhide 30 years apart to tell the difference.

When "Live at the Opry" came out I heard that version of Rawhide and thought Monroe had really lost it. It made me very sad. But then I sat down and tried to play that live version. I couldn't replicate it or keep up. So, even though it was not as blistering and melodious as the original it was still more difficult than it sounded. Then I was in wonder again.
And that Greene Rowan Grier Band was HOT. I listened to a live tape of that last Sat.. Wow! They were Smokin no pun intended.

[Spruce]

"The other is the group with Greene, Rowan, Grier. There is a show from
U of Wisconsin that is far superior to the Decca album."

Yep...
2/13/1967...

There's also a nice little radio show featuring that same band from 2/4/66 on WKCR radio in New York City, with a very young Pete Wernick as host....

Both of those recordings should be officially released....
Great stuff...

Monroe during the interview: #"There's no dobro in bluegrass, there's no drums in bluegrass, there's no hot guitar"... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Pete Martin]

Is there any "bad" Monroe stuff? Even the "bad" Monroe stuff is "good" Monroe stuff... :cool:

[jmcgann]

Even the "bad" Monroe stuff is "good" Monroe stuff...

The tracks with the organ player have a certain baseball park charm http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Peter Hackman]

"The other is the group with Greene, Rowan, Grier. There is a show from
U of Wisconsin that is far superior to the Decca album."

Yep...
2/13/1967...

There's also a nice little radio show featuring that same band from 2/4/66 on WKCR radio in New York City, with a very young Pete Wernick as host....

Both of those recordings should be officially released....
Great stuff...

Monroe during the interview: #"There's no dobro in bluegrass, there's no drums in bluegrass, there's no hot guitar"... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
For the benefit of those who haven't heard the U of Wisconsin tape:


-Richard, we have a request here for Bucking Mule, you know that one?
-Uh, probably under some other name
- Well, we're gonna play it under the name of Bucking Mule

(Greenes' entry indicates he learned the tune on the spot)


- (promoting the Grand Ole Opry History Book): ... some old-timers like
Ernets Tubb and myself in that book. There are some smart aleck
newcomers, they're in this book too. They all use drums and elecric
instruments. We have a lot of trouble with them.

[Peter Hackman]

Even the "bad" Monroe stuff is "good" Monroe stuff...

The tracks with the organ player have a certain baseball park charm http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
The organ was played by he producer, Owen Bradley. It's marginal, except
on Angels Rock Me to Sleep, where there seems to be a Leslie!

I always thought that Bradley played piano on Wayfaring Stranger
(the chords at the end of phrases are very faint). #Rosenberg
claims he hears long organ chords behind the singing.
Maybe Bradley played two keyboards, one with each hand.

Some really horrible Monroe:

Long Black Veil
I Want to Go with You


PS: SPeaking of Rosenberg, it seems his book has been delayed - again!
I'm not that surprised, he was proofreading by Christmas.

[Peter Hackman]

'My Last Days...' is in some flavor of C#minor tuning; it is not 'out of tune!'
And yes, for the completest Monroe collector, the last Bear Box set is a must-have.
But there are still unreleased recordings still in the can.
I don't have the record anymore (no vinyl left!) so I can't check the statement.
The reviewer claims that Kenny Baker had the same impression.
He theorizes that a cross-tuned instrument will easily go out of tune;
however I understand that Monroe kept one mandolin in the
lastdays-tuning, so that explanation (if there's
anything to explain) does not apply.

Maybe tuning the pairs a fixed interval apart creates
momentary clashes with the underlying
harmony, which might give the impression that the
mandolin is out of tune.

Generally, if one instrument is out of tune with the rest, it's because of overdubs. The jazz musician Art Farmer once recorded an album of
jazzed-up baroque music where his fluegelhorn was almost consistently
out of tune with the orchestra.

If certain parts have to be re-recorded
they will easily be out of tune.

However, like the rest of you, I don't recall anything
like that, at all.

Apart from this little quibble - what US Country magazine would devote
four pages to a bluegrass CD package?