View Full Version : Plain or burst
John Bertotti
May-13-2007, 7:28pm
There was a time when I couldn't stand a burst on a mandolin. A year or so ago I was looking for a hollowbody guitar. I tried a bunch and found the tone I wanted, but it was a burst, so I bought it, tone is my quest but now I find I am drawn to bursts. I am liking them more and more. Anyone else go through a similar shift in perception? Perhaps I just never gave them a fair look because of whatever perception I had but when I got a burst instrument and spent some time with it I started to appreciate the burst.
JEStanek
May-13-2007, 7:44pm
I've gone from liking the burst to liking a plain front (in the ranges I can afford!). I think some of our builders make some exquisite bursts. My favorite color on the top now is a pumpkin like on a nice old Gibson A.
Jamie
John Bertotti
May-13-2007, 7:54pm
I still love a good aged top also, I haven't forsaken other looks just learned to appreciate a new one.
sunburst
May-13-2007, 7:59pm
Hey,, some people like me, some people don't...
JEStanek
May-13-2007, 8:10pm
John, you're definitely one of the burst builders who don't burst my bubble! Your's always look very very fine.
Jamie
sunburst
May-13-2007, 8:38pm
Actually, early on I didn't like 'bursts, but I later decided it was because the ones I was seeing were poorly done ones on cheap instruments. Later, after I learned to do various stains, including sunbursts, I learned to see the difference between a well done 'burst and a cheap quickie. There are several ways to do a good 'burst, but the ones that are done well, regardless of whether they are rubbed, sprayed, brown, red, or any combination, look much better than the "cheap" ones.
In other words, there are 'bursts, and then there are 'bursts.
John Bertotti
May-13-2007, 10:06pm
sunburst it is funny you said that. I saw a paint job the other day, yes I know paint aint the same as stain but this paint job was real good flames. There appear to be only two colors but when i pursued how it was done I learned this particular job had more then 8 different colors and mixes to accomplish the transition from the beginning of the flame to the tip. I imagine the same is true of the bursts. The time put into the transition, I am guessing, probably has more to do with a good burst then just laying down a couple colors. Anyway I agree sunburst has some great sunbursts, at least in the pics I have seen.
OlderThanWillie
May-13-2007, 10:17pm
Each time I see a burst I see what looks like the top view of a toilet seat. I'll take a plain finish every time.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Andrew Lewis
May-13-2007, 10:19pm
Definitely. I used to hate sunbursts until I realized that I just hated bad bursts. I officially made the switch when I traded my natural Guild guitar for a beautiful J45. I'm no builder, but I would imagine from a builder's perspective that natural or solid are always safe plays - it takes guts to do a burst. It's like a risk/reward thing - a bad burst can be terrible, but a good one can be exquisite. (And John Hamlett's works definitely fall into the latter category)
mandroid
May-13-2007, 10:33pm
Handy to be able to darken and opaque finish over a visible flaw on an otherwise fine piece of
wood working.
[ a Tort'oid bound, clear finished orange, "single malt", toned F, spoke to me, visually..
(off MC classifieds, from other side of the country)
Brown A and [decades later]a redburst A4 were colors chosen 85 years ago.
I just took them home after playing them.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
PCypert
May-14-2007, 4:18am
Less is more for me. The ones that go to black or whatever and look like someone barfed on the mandolin (cough Breedlove cough) drive me far away no matter what the sound. I've seen some Collings and others that have convinced me a subtle burst can look quite sharp. Subtle is the key for me.
Paul
I used to have a pretty strong preference toward plain & simple. I've learned to love scrolls, and suburst finishes from the same process John describes above, seeing good ones!
I still vastly prefer the "low-fi" hand-rubbed look of the old F2/F4/F5s from Gibson vs the airbrushed perfection you often will find these days. A perfect one is a thing of beauty too, but somehow just aesthetically signs of the maker's hand are something I prefer to see. In these days of computer-produced perfection, I sometimes think a hand-builder almost needs to slightly exaggerate "maker's marks" to clearly identify the process.
One of my favorite Loar details is what Darryl calls the "Bad swipe" with the pad on the top where there is a slightly alien streak of dark finish over the orange center. It's a fun detail to look for, as well as the occasional fingerprints showing on the finish under the top coat.
I have always hated the "bullseye" sunbursts, and much prefer a viginette type of bust. There are a lot of really bad sunbursts out there. Can't stand the ones with the green/black edges.
I agree with Dan about the "bad swipe", and on my F5C's I intentionally do light "bad swipes" to "mess up" an otherwise perfect viginette. Prefer not to do fingerprints though.
In other words, there are 'bursts, and then there are 'bursts.
I didn't know this when I started years ago - and so my initial asociation was to cheaper mandolins. I have since learned.
Fretbear
May-14-2007, 6:46am
I like a blacktop the best, but the "small burst" on the Adam Steffey Gibson is real nice....
bikebum
May-14-2007, 8:08am
My personal choice favors a more plain look. I do like a burst finish when it is done in what I consider to be 'good taste'. I just don't care for the look where it seems that a bowl was laid on the top and spray painted around it.
Jerry
first string
May-14-2007, 10:13am
Like them on mandos and archtop guitars (though my mando is not really a sunburst), but I can't abide them on flattop guitars.
John Bertotti
May-14-2007, 10:46am
I actually like the old cowboy burst guitars, yes even the ones that have some painted floral designs or small scenes. I love the like bursts but the ones that go to almost black still aren't my favorite unless the darkest part is real close to the edge, wide dark ares bug me still. A nice tea burst though is something. I like to be able to see some of the wood.
sunburst
May-14-2007, 10:52am
...I intentionally do light "bad swipes" to "mess up" an otherwise perfect viginette.
Hans, how about some pictures of one of those 'perfect' vignettes before you do the "bad swipes" so I can see what a perfect one looks like! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Somehow, I've never had to do anything intentional to mess up a perfect one.
My, we do pick at words don't we. OK, how 'bout Minnesota "nice" vignettes. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
What I was trying to get at was that photos of the Loars show quite a bit of uneveness in the bursts, and I try to mess 'em up a little on the F5C's to try to replicate the originals.
So, how's this for "nice" then? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
George R. Lane
May-14-2007, 11:59am
I have to agree that a well done burst is nice, but I prefer the look of my Weber.
George R. Lane
May-14-2007, 12:00pm
Forgot the photo
JEStanek
May-14-2007, 12:23pm
George, I would almost call that a burst vs a uniform color. It's lighter in the middle than the edges. It's a beaut too.
Pretty "nice" Hans! I don't see any errors there... Don't tell me where they are.
Jamie
sunburst
May-14-2007, 1:00pm
Having done a few "hand rubbed" bursts, a la Loar era Gibson, I can attest to the tendency in spruce to be a little inconsistent in how it takes the stains. This tendency seems to be especially strong in some red spruce. I think I see more of that than I do "bad swipes" in the old mandolins. I also see places where the stain was a bit too wet and left 'water marks', some streaks, and yes, an occasional finger print. I think it's part of the "aura". I can't help but visualize someone working at Gibson one day back in 1923, rubbing the stain on that mandolin. I wonder what the weather was like. It really makes me feel the "hand made-ness" of the instruments to see the actual evidence of the human hands that did the work. A "perfect" sprayed 'burst just doesn't project that "human-ness" to me.
John Bertotti
May-14-2007, 4:25pm
Hans that is the type of burst I am starting to like. I just prefer the way some of the grain shows through.
mandobando
May-14-2007, 4:54pm
I really like the bursts i have seen on all of Andrew Mowry's instruments. It appears to be a very thin coat of varnish that allows you to see all of the grain in the wood. Looks very cool.
JeffD
May-15-2007, 10:22am
I wonder when sunbursts first appeard on mandolins and guitars.
Michael Lewis
May-16-2007, 12:31am
Hans, that Eclipse is a dandy. You have a way with design, but we all knew that. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Aw shucks! Thanks Michael...I like that one so much that I have to build myself one in red. Really going to miss all you good folks at GV this year. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif