"open up"

[jk245]

There have been many topics here about mando instruments apparently getting better with 'age' using the expression 'OPEN UP'.

Recently someone said that his new instrument 'opened up' after only 20 minutes of use. Other threads have said that the process takes a long time (years perhaps).

If you have a never played instrument and you store it under ideal conditions for several years, does that mean that the wood will age and 'open up' (and play better) naturally?

Does it mean that as you play a particular instrument you get to know it's unique sounds and you make appropriate adjustments in your playing technique?

Or, does the actual sounds created by the strings actually cause the wood to change structure thereby creating a new sound base?

Do some instruments NEVER 'open up'?

So many questions ... so many possible answers.

[mandolin123]

you will know it when it happens

[Kevin Briggs]

I think the answer to all of your questions is "yes."

I can see no logical, physiological, chemical, (you name it) reason why the wood of a mandolin does not change over time. Every substance on earth is constantly changing. Throw in dozens, even hundreds of small pieces of wood, all glued together, surrounded by a nitro-cellulose or varnish finish, some stain, metal wires tightened until they make high pitched noises, ... you get the point.

My maple Bitteroot has changed over time. My playing has also gotten better. The ocmbination of the two is a very desireable effect.The bass hums more the highs are a bit phatter. It happens, but I don't think it just "happens." My experience has been that the process is gradual. A recording of my mandolin brand new and of one after two and a half years and lots of care and excessive playing would probably show the difference.

Now, I think if you leave it sitting for a while and then play it it will take 10 or 20 minutes to shake off the dust, somehow. I've experienced that.

[stevem]

Some mandos need a little "warm up" each time they're played: after playing it a bit it seems to come to life more. Most mandos I've owned require a bit of warm up.

"Opening up" is a longer term, more permanent process where the tonal character of the mandolin improves: woodier, cleaner, more growl, notes sound more in harmony with the whole, etc. It's a mystical process that most of us believe is real. Others say it's all in your head--just you falling in love with the tone that was already there.

[DryBones]

any of my 20-30 minute comments have to do with the mandolin sounding "tight or tinny" until played for awhile, then it just seems better,richer,fuller. When my Eastman was new it took at least 20-30 minutes each time I played it but now after about a year it's ready from the start unless I let it sit for any length of time/several days, then it needs just a couple minutes usually just while tuning. #YMMV,JMHO http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Ivan Kelsall]

I have an 18 month old Lebeda F-5 Premium plus Mandolin & they way it has opened up seems to be that the original 'tinny,stringy' sound has gone (especially on the A strings).That has been replaced by a 'stronger,louder' A note.The Mandolin in general has become louder for the same effort put into playing it & the the sound has become more 'full' with the tone 'richer'. I know that these are subjective terms but it's the only way i can classify the changes. As Don said above 'you'll know' when it happens & as you become more familiar with your instrument,the changes become more apparent.

[Hans]

I call it "waking up". Most all instruments will take 10-15 minutes to wake up after being in the case for a few days. I had a German spruce topped 23V that would take about 20 minutes, but would make the most astounding change at that point. It would literally turn heads.
Then there's "opening up" which is an ongoing process. Usually takes about a year of hard playing depending on the spruce/maple, but will continue for years. I've had folks call and after three or four years they tell me their instrument is still surprising them.
My personal opinion is that an instrument should be played as soon as possible after finishing and be played regularly for optimum tone. I don't think that an instrtument that hangs on a wall in a shop for a couple of years after finishing will ever sound as good as one that has been played from the start.
There is also something that I think I've been experiencing and would like to know if others have also had this experience. I confess that I'm not able to keep all my instruments awake, and sometimes months will go by before I haul some out for a wake up. That being said, I hauled out my 3 point a couple of days ago. This instrument has a very hard red spruce top and while it's over 2 years old, it has been really stiff and seemingly not breaking in. When I woke it up the other day, I think it made a great leap in tone. Seems I've experienced this a few times before. Anyone else had this experience?

[MikeEdgerton]

And here I thought "opening up" was when the back finally popped off the 1950's Kay that I left out on the bench. I feel so foolish. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Hans]

Hard to speculate Shayne, but I do know that "thin" topped instruments seem to stay open, and don't change that much. However, it's been my experience that "thin" topped instruments sound thin and just don't have that "meaty" sound. And of course, while they might sound good, there is the risk of top collapse. A friend of mine had a mandolin (I won't mention the maker) with a thin top that sounded good but thin. After about a year, his action started to go lower and lower, and a couple of months later, the top collapsed. Some "thin" instruments will also develop a bulge in the top between the bridge feet. If severe, that can be kinda spooky.
I suspect that cedar topped instruments also sound about the same all the time. They change very little over a long period of time.

[NoNickel]

I too intially had some questions and some amount of doubts about the "opening up" of a mandolin. From the outside it sounds like so much voodoo. But, after some investigation and personal experience I have become a believer. I haven't been around as long as some here on the Café, but I will share my 2 cents.

Frist, I think you are talking about 2 different phenomena. The first is the tendency of a carved top instrument to "go to sleep" if it hasn't been played for a while. I have heard violin players talk about this. I have witnessed it myself as well. Once you take your mandolin out of its case, after it has been resting awhile, a bit of playing will cause it to wake up in sound and become more lively in tone and volume will increase. I read somewhere that you can wake up your instrument by playing an open G chord over and over for two minutes straight. I first tried this on a new Eastman 615 and it worked. After the two minutes of hard playing, there was a noticeable depth to the tone that had not been there before (all I can think to describe it, was that it became more "piano-like"). I would assume that the complexity of the tone (overtones?) became more pronounced. Normal playing will make this happen naturally over a period of maybe twenty minutes (if you don't use the "Open G" method). It will happen quicker the harder you play and obviously less quick the softer the instrument is played. Chops and chords are more effective than single lines. My main mandolin (BRW) doesn't need any or much playing to wake up, as it is played daily. My Eastman 2-point which sits in its case much more, takes a while.

The second phenomena is the "opening up" of the entire instrument over a period of months or years. As I understand it, different materials take different time periods. Red spruce seems like it takes the longest I have heard. The more frequent and vigorous the playing, the quicker this happens too. My BRW is red spruce and it has been played daily for 2-3 hours for about 6 months. Its sound is now much richer than when I first got it and I feel it gets better every day.

A final thing that I would say is that I think that each of these may more noticeable with "quality" instruments and less so with lower end instruments.

You would think that each of these processes would be able to be tested by engineering and/or researching types in the lab. Maybe it has been.

[Eric F.]

I've had an Arches with a red spruce top and varnish finish for two years. It sounded terrific from the start. However, it has developed a hollow, ancient sound that just knocks my socks off. It started on the D strings - like Hans, I could actually pinpoint the moment it happened. Sometimes it takes a bit of hard playing to wake up. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't pretend to understand any of it, I just enjoy it.

[testore]

Stevem and Hans have said it all, however, I did have one violin that sounded good right after I finished it. I really liked it but it didn't sell, so it sat in my safe. 6 months later a good friend of mine was over, he had already played the violin when it was new. I told him that the violin had just changed dramatically so he gave it a try and couldn't believe how it had changed. It grew in volume and quality just sitting around. I wish I had the formula for figuring this stuff out but as much as we builders talk about our knowledge and experiences there's always those few instruments that make you scratch your head more than normal.I guess that's why we build them. The violin,BTW, now belongs to Merle Haggard and a few of you have probably heard it on recordings by now.

[Rick Schmidlin]

I have a Collinings MF5, with a Adi top.If I play softly around the house it takes time.If I go out side where nobody is, play loud and hard for a half hour and later come home it then sounds like the angels have come in for a landing.As far as the time thing over the years, buy what sounds good now, don't worry about the later that will be for somebody else.

[mythicfish]

I have a couple of old Gibsons and an A-5 made a few years ago(Dale Ludewig). I try to play them all on a regular basis
and often note their subtle differences from day to day. But I find that these variations are more attributable to my playing
than the instrument itself.
I'm neither luthier, nor physicist ... just a 63 year-old entertainer who happens to sing and play the mandolin.

Curt

[MikeB]

I've read most of the stuff that's been written here about this subject. I'm not sure about my own instruments, except that there are definitely days that they sound better than others (and it's not just my lousy playing).

But, I will say this: almost every 'old' (say 10 years, or more) stringed instrument I've ever played sounded different--and, to my ear better than almost every new one, regardless of maker. This strongly suggests to me that something happens to them over time...something I like a LOT!

[fiddle5]

I agree on both counts: both in warming up, and opening up from new. Mandolins and fiddles often like to be played for a few minutes before the richness comes out.

New instruments are kinda like new shoes, it takes a bit of use before it moves properly and in all the right places. Once this happens, they seem to perform better, and I find that this happens over a period of months rather than pin-pointing it to a an exact day. Six months ago I aquired a new fiddle that I bought as a travel fiddle and I keep it on a stand in front of my stereo speakers. Its just starting to open up now, along with regular playing.

I also find that if an instrument is stored for too long, it may need to be played for a while before good tone comes back. However, I find all of the above to not apply to any of my guitars. Go figure

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[NoNickel]

However, I find all of the above to not apply to any of my guitars. Go figure #


I really think carved top instruments are different. #Flat tops appear to get better with time and playing but don't have the wake up issue. #I wonder if things like cellos and double basses and others the violin family would have this property?

By the way, I think it is more than just differences in playing from day to day or over a period of time or the player getting better. #I suspect that some player "warm up" of the fingers and the ears could contribute to this as well. #And, as the years go by we just get to be better players and more comfortable with our instruments. Finally, I think that aural memory is probably not very well developed in many of us. #However, I would trust most what the builders (Hans and the rest) have to say on the issue, as they deal with incredibly slight nuances of tone and probably see tons more new instruments and get to follow their deveopment much better than players.

[jmcgann]

Instruments do respond to how you play them- if you play loud with a range of tones, and work on 'drawing' the tone out, the instrument will open up in that way- assuming it is a decent instrument to begin with. i don't think an old harmony is going to 'give up' a lot to your way of playing- but an instrument that sounds really good brand new will indeed burnish and mellow and ripen over time- one of the joys of being a parent http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Assuming potential is there in the instrument, and that you have the technique to make it happen, you can "add" a lot of tone response to the instrument by "playing it in". Andy Statman told me if I played more by the bridge, I could get the overall sound of the mando brighter- including when i chose to play by the fingerboard- by getting the mandolin to respond to that kind of encouragement. He was right!

[Spruce]

"Most all instruments will take 10-15 minutes to wake up after being in the case for a few days. I had a German spruce topped 23V that would take about 20 minutes, but would make the most astounding change at that point. It would literally turn heads. "

Then, using a recorder and a good mic, one should be able to document this #phenomenon, no?

It should be an easy thing to do, no?

I'm not doubting that "opening up" exists, but merely saying that one could argue that there are other factors involved like ears and attitude...

A recording of a good mandolin opening up over a 15 minute period of time would be a cool listen, and help to dispell or prove the myth once-and-for-all...

I'd be glad to do it here, but I don't have any mandolins here that sound any different to my ears 15 minutes after pulling them out of the case... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[NoNickel]

And that raises a question that I have always been interested in. Would an instrument that was played by a virtuoso for many years sound better than one played by a duffer(assuming the same amount of playing time)? Further, would an instrument played by a jazz player sound different than one played by a player with a totally different style of playing, such as bluegrass (assuming equal ability and the same instrument?) Discuss.

[thistle3585]

However, I find all of the above to not apply to any of my guitars. Go figure

The reason it doesn't apply to guitars is because the bridge is fixed. All the other instruments mentioned, ie: mando, violin, cello etc., don't have a fixed bridge.

I believe that the waking up is a function of the bridge "settling in" on the top. If you leave an instrument in the case for awhile the bridge either shifts, relaxes or tensions based on temp., humidity etc. When you take a stored instrument out, it takes a while for the bridge to reestablish its proper position. I think it takes a little while for the bridge to get back to that optimal fit.


I don't have any scientific proof of this, but it seems more plausible to me than anything else I've heard.

[Jerry Byers]

I'd be glad to do it here, but I don't have any mandolins here that sound any different to my ears 15 minutes after pulling them out of the case... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Want to borrow one? My F5, with red spruce, likes to take 10-20 minutes to wake up. However, with it going on 4 years old, it seems it takes less and less time to happen. What amazes me is that the change can be very perceivable at times. You will be playing, then out of the blue - pow - it opens up with a loud, rich tone. I also find doing chop chords helps to lessen the time. The F5 can be very percussive, and the chops are like a bass drum.

[Crowder]

I have no doubt that instruments open up over time. The "waking up" phenomenon is the one I doubt. I think that has more to do with the player WARMING up. Short-scale instruments like mandolins require better technique to get a good tone, so cold hands can equal less-than-ideal tone. JMHO.

[Hans]

[QUOTE]
"Then, using a good mic and recorder, one should be able document this phenominon, no?"
"It should be an easy thing to do, no?"

Don't know Bruce, I'm not an expert on mics and recorders. I will say this...A couple of years ago, Maureen and I were in our living room with the Milwaukee band Frogwater, and they were sampling some mandolins that I had brought out of hiding. While we talked and laughed, Lil' Rev took out the German spruce 23V and started to play it, not really paying attention, and we continued talking. Suddenly he exclaimed "Did you guys hear that?", and we all said yes. There was a marked difference in the tone of the instrument. This is a very vivid memory.

Maybe our ears all "popped" at the same time. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Satchel]

My thoughts too Crowder...I usually wake up after 20 minutes of playing.

[kyblue]

Bruce,

When my Duff was first shipped from Australia, it didn't sound impressive right out of the case. But, after a few days (don't remember how long exactly now), it did seem to change in a big way. I remember thinking -wow- this baby likes the U.S.!

I haven't had it out of the case for 4-5 months now, so it would be an interesting experiment to see if it's 'asleep' again. You're a bit too far away for me to loan it to you due to shipping costs, or I'd be glad to do it!

Paula

[CosmicHillBilly]

Thought I would add my humble opinion.

I have notice these effects also and here is my theory for what
it is worth.

Wood being dead cellular material naturally absorbs water
very easily. Instruments that have been in an environment with
any amount of humidity, even being cased, will tend to
equalize with the water content in the air and absorb moisture.
Typically wood as it absorbs water swells. The swelling tends
to give the wood a sponging effect that dampens vibrations.
Therefore the instrument tends to sound muffled and doesn't
resonate fully when first played after sitting for a long period of
time. As the instrument is played the wood is vibrated #by the
sound. The vibration of the wood results in energy being
released as small amounts of heat. This heating effect then
drives the absorbed moisture back out of the wood. Of course
as the water evaporates back into the atmosphere it absorbs
any heat so there is no detectable heat buildup on the mando.
Simply put, as you play you are driving absorbed moisture
back out of the wood so that the vibration effects of the wood
change making this opening up effect that we hear.

The long term opening up effect for mandos or any older
wooden instrument #is similar, but involves the natural
moisture that is in the cell structure of the wood. Over a period
of years the wood dries naturally to a point of optimal vibration
performance.

Of course there are at least a thousand variables that can be
thrown in such as wood cell density, finish, bridge pressure,
etc, etc, etc. And of course with wood there are always
exceptions to the exceptions.

Anyway right or wrong my humble opinion.
Ed

[NoNickel]

Ed, that explanation makes a lot of sense. Did you read that somewhere or it that your own theory?

[CosmicHillBilly]

Thanks NoNickel

Honestly I don't remember reading that anywhere and admit that its only a theory - but would be a lot of fun to test in a lab.

I own two mandolins, a 515 Eastman and a Flatiron Performer A. I play them in cycles where I'll stick with one for about a month or two then switch to the other. I'm always amazed that the one that I'm currently playing sounds great and the unplayed mando sounds thin in comparrison during the switch. This happens regardless of which mando has been played or been sitting.

Anyway food for thought
Ed

[bikebum]

Ed, I subscribe to the idea that the moisture absorbed by the instrument does have an effect. I've only had mandolins since the first of this year and to me there is a definite difference in sound depending on the humidity. I much prefer the sound when it is less humid. In over 40 years of guitar playing I have noticed much the same effect.

I have also observed the 'playing in' or 'opening up' improvement in sound after playing the mando for some amount of time. If the 'playing in' effect is indeed driving out the offending water molecules, it doesn't seem to do quite the job when the humidity is higher.

Jerry

[Ivan Kelsall]

From the much esteemed Mr.Brentrup - ''I confess that I'm not able to keep all my instruments awake, and sometimes months will go by before I haul some out for a wake up''.
Hans - i hereby volunteer to come over & keep all your instruments awake totally free of charge !!.
I think that Mandolins do quite literally 'warm' up when being held close to the body & also with the player's wrist being placed on top. I think that the wood just 'losens up' & gets moving more. I know that if i leave my Mandolin in my front room where it's relatively cool & then bring it into my warmer living room,the sound really changes. The mandolin gets louder & the tone opens up dramatically,
Saska

[Dave Cohen]

It always amazes me how often people are willing to make something up and call it a 'theory'. #First, a construct isn't allowed the status of 'theory' until it has been extensively verified by experiment. #So are all of you 'theorists' prepared to put your 'theories' on the same level as equilibrium and nonequilibrium thermodynamics, classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, classical and quantum electrodynamics, relativity,...., evolution,..., etc.? #What you actually have is a hypothesis, maybe.

Second, if you really want to call something a 'theory', you can take a step in the right direction by devising some simple experiments. #In the case of your "moisture" hypothesis, that shouldn't be too hard. #Wood is hygroscopic, but there are two kinds of moisture involved (cf Hoadley, "Understanding Wood", 2nd Edition, Taunton Press). #One kind is "bound water", and the other is "free water" #What you were describing above was the bound water, and the time intervals mentioned made me sceptical. #But you can do an experiment. #You can accelerate the moisture's departure with a hair dryer, if you dare subject your instrument to that. #You would best do this with some kind of sound editing program. #One that you can download for free is Wavesurfer, from the Swedish Royal Institute (Google "KTH") #Do your measurements, then dry the instrument out (at your own risk!) with the hair dryer and do the measurements again. #Best to devise a mechanical plucker for consistency. One that Alan Carruth uses is some very fine coil winding wire. #You thread a length of it behind a string and pull on both ends until the fine wire breaks. #The breaking tension is pretty consistent, So you will be displacing the string by the same amount each time. #Be recording the sound by the time the fine wire breaks. #An assistant can help you with that.

[mythicfish]

Dave, your godless, heathen (smile when you say that pardner!), secular humanist views are an affront to all those who recognize the truth of Miraculous Mandolin Warm-up. To wit:

The Spirits of the Forest reside deep in the structure of wood. They are very small and therefore unobservable - like sub-microscopic leprechauns. When the instrument is played, you chase them out, leaving the wood freer to vibrate. Where do they go? They migrate to the outside of the back plate and form a runic pattern where they form a buffer between the wood and the player. That's how the Tone-gard was invented. I know it's true because a Druid told me so. Now let's talk about
crystals,,.

Curt

[NoNickel]

I knew it. #Tone fairies! I was just afraid to be the first one to say it.

[Dave Cohen]

Guilty as charged, Curt, but thanks for the laugh of the day. Will be hard to top that one, at least for the rest of the day. Now which one of those @#%* smilies is which?

[Celtic Saguaro]

What I've experienced is that a brand new mandolin has something akin to a head cold. It's a bit stopped up. #It may sound fine to begin with, but there is always a layer of richness missing. #After as little as a few hours or as much as a few months of steady playing, you do suddenly notice, "Hey, this thing is a lot better than it used to be!"

I'm too impatient when I play. I don't think I could stand an instrument that needed to be warmed up for 10 or 20 minutes. #I think I'd get a different one, and let someone else have the one the needed a warm up every time.

[Hans]

Egad, here we go with the godless secular humanist pinko mandolin murdering mutterings! Next you'll bring up the Scopes mandolin trial and Derwin's "Origin of the Mandolin" vs mandolin creationism... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[JEStanek]

I aways thought the creator was a curmudgeony old, white dude with a beard who makes 3 Points to confuse the mandolin evolution! Unless we mean the mother mando creator who makes beautiful F4s in Washington state... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

By the way Clarence Darrow who supplied the Scopes defense said..

Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat-tails.

Jamie

[Kevin Briggs]

I like that head cold thing. Makes snotty good sense.

[pjlama]

I do believe that a lot of mandolins wake up after playing especially if they've been sitting or are really new, for whatever that's worth but there was also the question of opening up. There was a recent topic on the Loar sound that at some point talked about distressing which led to various ideas and someone finally brought up the dedamper from the Siminoff website. I thought the machine was simple enough and since I have very little to no patients, why not. So I have all the materials to make one and will do it in the next week. I have a new Fern and a new F5G that would be good test subjects. I'll let you know what happens. As far as recording it I will but, think that mic placement and playing will make it purely a fun exercise, I wouldn' trust the recording and since I have no patients as stated earlier a more scientific approach is out of the question, for me. Once I'm done I would be willing to loan the dedamper to another more patient member for a scientific review.

[fiddle5]

I don't actually know bugger-all other than what "seems" to work for me. I precribe to the hypothesis of the old music teacher who stores her fiddle under the piano to keep it alive. Actually, I keep most of my instruments in my music room and if not playing, i keep the stereo on loud.

I've had a lot of instruments, new and old, the more they get played, the better they sound. No science to it really, but thats my observation.

You don't need to be a member of the scientific community to accurately describe how the sun comes up every morning, but the fact is that it does, and many people observe this whether they can scientifically explain it or not.

[Tim]

My theory (using the third definition of the word from a Princeton website: a belief that can guide behavior), is that if your mandolin sounds better after a while, you say it opens up, if it sounds worse after playing it for a while you say you need a new mandolin. #You never say you need lessons.

[jk245]

My theory (using the third definition of the word from a Princeton website: a belief that can guide behavior), is that if your mandolin sounds better after a while, you say it opens up, if it sounds worse after playing it for a while you say you need a new mandolin. You never say you need lessons.
Tim, you said it good!

After a time of playing an instrument you get to know the idiosyncrasies of it. You might tune slightly different from standard, you might use a different string model or from a different string maker, you might use a different type of pick, or you might play in a place where the sound is more to your liking. Then as Tim says clearly, if the sound ain't good, get a different instrument which is more to your liking...and get a good teacher!

[Brad H]

Since there's a few good sides of the story going on here, I have to ask you all a question about something I was told while in college that makes pretty good sense to me. My guitar professor, and also (I'm pretty sure) Dake Traphagen, the luthier who built my incredible classical guitar, told me that during the crutial first months of playing a new instrument, you should try to play in as many keys as possible, and continue to play chromatic scales to keep from "tempering" the instrument to favor a certain key. I guess they knew that students typicaly have one or two pieces of music that they practice for hours per day, and the instrument would be broken in for that key. So I always feel a little guilty when I pick up a new mandolin and bang out an open G chord for five minutes cause it's loud. I feel like I'm not giving the other keys a fair chance at being part of the instruments tonal capabilities if I don't randomly play chromatic things to help break it in. Does anyone feel that their instrument sounds "better" in a certain key? Could that be part of it?

[Tom F]

Here's more. On FlatpickL, a post by Gary Collier referenced this from John Arnold ...

"Wood is composed of cells that are mostly air. One theory about the red
spruce 'warming up period' has to do with its resin content. Red spruce
has the highest resin content of all the spruces. If you visualize this
resin as a powder sticking to the cell walls, the vibration can shake the
powder loose, suspending it in the air spaces. Since the sticky powder is
no longer adhered to the cell walls, the wood can vibrate better.
Consider also that WR cedar has a very low resin content. It is generally
thought that cedar warms up much quicker than a spruce top."

You know, I like it.

[Kevin Briggs]

Great theories on the topic.

There was a thread about a year ago that addressed the opening up period. Remember those pictures a person posted that showed a machine strumming the mandolin all day? It was the "opening up" experiment.

I think it's generally agreed that our instruments get warmed up. I notice it dramatically on my Martin HD-28, which I don't play too often anymore. However, when i do play it, I play it for like an hour or two, and once I hit the third or fourth song, or the half hour mark, it is a little louder and definitely sounds more full than when I just picked it up.

[NoNickel]

Following up on CosmicHillbilly's thought (I won't call it a theory again), I think that his idea of something going on based upon heat and vibrations and water is interesting. #It stands to reason that the more a mandolin is played, the more vibrations that its wood structure will experience. #Over a short time (the wake up) or a longer period (the open up) these vibrations could likely have an impact of some sort on the structure of the instrument -- possibly at the gross constituent level (such as the bridge, the instrument settling in with its other parts, etc) or maybe even at the cellular level. #Just to take the latter possiblity, processed wood (meaning harvested, milled and planked) will contain water and air within its cells. #The partcular species and the degree of seasoning will determine how much air and water is present. #Luthiers select well seasoned wood to work with and we worry about keeping our instruments from suffering too many extremes in humidity because of cracks and finish checking due to the wood swelling and shrinking. #CosmicHillbilly's post suggests that the migration of water back and forth into the cells as a reaction to heat created by playing has an acoustic impact. #That sounds plausible. #However, just because it makes sense, doesn't mean it is right. #A "hypothesis" that explains observed phenomena may be appealing but that's not proof. #Maybe that's the right answer (seems that some arithmetic and a highly accurate lab scale might help with this investigation. #The hair dryer suggestion could work, but a safer route for the instrument would be to just weigh it before and after hard playing on a very accurate scale.) #Or it could be that the cell walls of the wood being subjected to vibrations and/or heat become more flexible as time (short and long) goes on. #So rather than the water idea (which might imply that empty cell air space contributes to acoustics, and that cell space which is partially filled with water dampens acoustic properties), it may be that the cell structure of the top plate (or maybe more of the mando's wood, back, sides, tonebars) changes due to heat or vibration (or fairies) and impacts the mechanics of the mandolin. #It is also very possible that the mechanism that impacts the "wake up" (i.e. 20 minutes) may be totally different than what is going on in the "opening up" (over years) process. #Just because they both are perceived to be improvements of tone, that doesn't mean the same causes are responsible.

So it could be water, vibration, heat, hardening of the wood's cell walls, softening of the wood's cell walls, settling of the bridge, tone fairies etc. #It could also be that after 20 minutes the player's fingers or ears have warmed up. #Or after several years you are a better player, and the fact that your mando sounds better is not because it has improved but because you have (wouldn't that be wonderful?). #It could be any of these, or any combination of these, or none of these.

What I am convinced of is that something is going on. #I have experienced it. #It is as real as getting a better tone from a different pick or new strings or using a better grip. #If it is observable, it is probably repeatable and able to be tested.

[James P]

So the rattler's tail acts as a desiccant?

[Jerry Byers]

That's what I heard. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I like the Tone Fairies suggestion - a couple good whacks of a G chord gets of those slackers in line and reminds the wood that it's not wood, but a musical instrument.

Straighten up, soldier.