New tuners for 927 a-jr

[Steve Stewart]

Anyone know of any decent replacement tuners available for a 1927 Gibson A-Jr (Paddlehead)? I would like to easily replace the original tuners. They are awefully tired!

Thanks

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[ShaneJ]

I have a '21, but I am still using the old Waverly's. I havn't measured. Are the post spacings the same as modern tuners, or are they different? If they are the same 29/32", then any new A style tuner ought to work. The screw holes probably won't match up, so you'd have to drill some new holes. Do your current tuners only have 3 screws each - middle and each end?

[Ray(T)]

If you find any, please lst me know. They're unlikely to be 29/32.

Now, if it was an "F" you could buy a set of Waverleys with the right spacing. Only $600 at Stewmac!

[David Newton]

Most modern A-style tuners are 29/32" c-c. Screw holes will probably be different. I like both the Grovers and Elites.

[ShaneJ]

I just measured my old Waverlys, and they are 29/32" post spacing - just like new ones. If yours are too, then take your pick of the new tuners with the same spacing. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

I hope you'll take a look at my page on reviving and maintaining the original gears (http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html), because that's the best thing you can do. There are no good replacements. Most of the new tuners with the same spacing have the buttons above the posts, and yours have the buttons below them. They look really weird, and the screwholes don't work out well at all, which is explained here (http://www.lutherie.net/mandolin.gear.direction.html).

[Gail Hester]

These are the much improved new Gotoh's with ivoroid buttons. They turn the correct way. They have 23mm post to post hole spacing (29/32”).

[Paul Hostetter]

The buttons stick out way too far, the plate marks show too much, and screwholes are not covered. Fix the originals!!

(I'd use these if there was no other recourse - but there is!)

[Gail Hester]

You are right Paul and thanks for making those refurbishment procedures available to everyone. I happen to be using them now to spif up a couple sets. I do like the new Gotoh's in general though.

[ajh]

I replaced the tuners in my 24 A-jr snakehead a couple years ago with Schallers from Stew-Mac. Their stock number was 0768. The number stameped on the Schaller box was 592. They matched up to the old ones and dropped right in. Not sure of the spacing though.....

Tony

[Paul Hostetter]

The Schaller post spacing may be correct, but the button shafts are above the cog, not below as on the originals.

http://www.lutherie.net/gotoh.above.below.mandolin.jpg

A lot of people would not agree with that aesthetic decision. And the only way you can get them to look slightly right means they'll turn backwards. More about that here (http://www.lutherie.net/mandolin.gear.direction.html).

[ajh]

The Schallers I referred to went on an A-jr....not an F. The worms/buttons are "over" the posts on both the original tuners and replacements.

I did double check the tuner tightening direction (per Paul's attachment). If you look directly at the side of the instument you are tuning (left/bass and right/treble), the rotation of the button is CCW to tighten on both sides. I verified (with the same results) this on 2 other mandos, a tenor guitar and a banjolin (with old gibson deluxe sealed tuners).

Tony

[8ch(pl)]

Paul, could you tell me what tuners were on Vega mandolins and mandolin banjos? I have a spare set for mine that needs work. The little side brackets holding the worm gears to the plate are badly worn, (some of them). Is there a fix for this that you can recommend? These tuners have quite small round white buttons, material?

Thanks

[Paul Hostetter]

I'd generally assume the machines on a Vega were made by Waverly, and that their buttons were ivoroid, but a photo would really help.

It's unusual for the bearing holes in those little tabs (for lack of better terminology) supporting the worm to wear. (I guess they're bearing blocks, but they're so tiny it doesn't sound right!)

The real issue is whether the teeth remain engaged in actual use. I've seen cases where the wear and/or misalignment of those bearing tabs was such that the gears slipped for lack of adequate contact - the teeth no longer meshed right and actually skipped under load. But that's always been on budget gears, mostly European and 19th C. American ones.

Most of those old gears from the early 20th can seem fairly loose and still work fine. People obsess about backlash, and I see it as no problem whatsoever as long as the gears are clean and well lubed, If so, the string tension takes up the backlash, which I always saw as a deliberate feature of the gears in the first place. The only problem is when they are so gunked up (or badly installed) that friction somewhere prevents release under the pull of the string. That's simply a case of bad maintenance, not bad condition or design.

Re: the '27 A-Jr, you're right, they were the modern style by then. If the originals were like these:

http://www.lutherie.net/gibson.A.1927.tuners.jpg ... what was wrong with them? These are usually excellent tuners.