Keeping the right hand airborn

[Soupy1957]

I'm having a tough time keeping my right hand airborn (I'm a "righty") when I play the mandolin. It helps sooooo much to at LEAST anchor my pinky for orientation.

I sure would appreciate suggestions on how to keep my orientation to the strings, whilst keeping my right hand airborn.....in the heat of playing, I loose my place and start pluckin the wrong strings....(if I don't anchor my pinky, that is).

-Soupy1957

[Jerry Byers]

I know that I will hear from naysayers, but it is okay to rest your arm on the edge of your mandolin, or to rest your wrist on or behind the bridge. Believe me, you won't lose that much volume or tone.

[PseudoCelt]

I suppose the obvious answer is to just practice picking without posting.

I used to post my pinky. I trained myself to stop doing it by playing as slowly as was necessary to be able to pick cleanly without posting. When I played with others, I often defaulted to posting, but eventually I stopped altogether.

I think the position of my forearm on the edge of the top is how I judge where the strings are. I often brush the top with my fingers too, but I don't need to - I just find my hand is more relaxed that way. I try not to touch the bridge.

I also used very slow playing to get my pick grip and pick direction sorted out. I found it helpful to join a mandolin class for a while. Although I could pick up the tunes pretty quickly, the enforced slower pace and repetitive nature of the class gave me plenty of time to work on my technique.

My technique's certainly not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was.

Patrick

I quite agree Jerry. I will tend to have the heel of my hand just resting very lightly behind the bridge. Then, #without thinking about it you WILL play a lot of the time in the 'airborn' position anyway once you get picking.
DONT THINK JUST PLAY
DONT THINK JUST PLAY
DONT THINK JUST PLAY
(using correct tecnique of course!)
DD

[Jim Broyles]

I think this is why teachers suggest curling your fingers into a loose fist. If your pinky isn't sticking out, you can't attach it to your mandolin. Do what PseudoCelt said - practice slowly without posting until you can do it cleanly. It will come. I agree with the idea of lightly resting behind the bridge - I do not experience a negative impact on my tone or volume. When I chop, my hand is "airborne" as you put it, but for quieter, melodic passages, I might rest my wrist.

[Jerry Byers]

One thing that I have noticed of late is that I use my armrest, or edge of the mandolin, more often as the reference point than the bridge. I play both ovals and f-holes, and the sweet spot varies relative to the bridge.

[Kbone]

I'm having a tough time keeping my right hand airborn (I'm a "righty") when I play the mandolin. It helps sooooo much to at LEAST anchor my pinky for orientation.

I sure would appreciate suggestions on how to keep my orientation to the strings, whilst keeping my right hand airborn.....in the heat of playing, I loose my place and start pluckin the wrong strings....(if I don't anchor my pinky, that is).

-Soupy1957
Do what works for you - they're many *great* mando players that plant, also some great players that use a three finger grip. Whatever works IMO.

[adgefan]

If you are playing the wrong strings or losing your place the problem may well be your picking technique, rather than how you position the right hand. Play everything slowly and check your right hand technique (i.e. alternate picking) is in order. Once you have that sorted you'll probably find things a lot easier and then you can start to worry about how best to position the hand.

[Peter Hackman]

There have been many threads on this topic. I again refer to Mandozine's
catalog of right hand styles.

You might enjoy watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpCwXwdtcpk
with Doyle Lawson and Ronnie Reno playing
Old Joe Clarke.

[jmcgann]

I sure would appreciate suggestions on how to keep my orientation to the strings,

Read it before? Read it again! (http://www.johnmcgann.com/techtips.html)


They're many *great* mando players that plant, also some great players that use a three finger grip. Whatever works IMO.

There are many players who can play great music in spite of less than optimum technique. If you are in that category of player, then go for it...the rest of us need to figure out the most easy and efficient way to get things done, so we don't become hamstrung by less than effective technique. "Whatever works" will not get you through all situations. Tony Rice's quote rings true:


Playing music is half musicianship and half common sense

DO THINK, THEN PLAY! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Ken Sager]

Watch this. Compare both Tim's and David's right hands. Neither post. Tim's hand is open and loose, David's is closed and loose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5SfsEUaXTE

It's ok to post a pinky as long as you don't always need to and want to do otherwise. It's ok to rest your wrist behind the bridge as long as you don't need to and want to do otherwise.

If you're having trouble playing without posting at a certain point all you can do is stop posting. Practice slowly the way you want to play. Learn to do it right. Every time you practice while posting you're just teaching yourself to do something you don't want to do.

Love to all,
Ken

[bradeinhorn]

i would try to stop posting. seems correct for huge majority of players. here's a little trick: put a quarter or a spare pick in your hand while playing and it will force you to keep a loosely closed hand without pinky sticking out. and slow it down.

[mythicfish]

John McGann's advice is as succinctly and eloquently expressed as his music.
There will always be folks who take the "whatever works" approach for "whatever" reasons. And that's OK
as long as they don't recommend it as a recipe for success.

Curt


"95% of playing music is half mental" ... Yogi Berra

[Jim Broyles]

John McGann's advice is as succinctly and eloquently expressed as his music.
There will always be folks who take the "whatever works" approach for "whatever" reasons. And that's OK
as long as they don't recommend it as a recipe for success.

Curt


"95% of playing music is half mental" ... Yogi Berra
Re: music "This stuff's easy, Harry!"... Rich Ashburn

[Jim Broyles]

Watch this. Compare both Tim's and David's right hands. Neither post. Tim's hand is open and loose, David's is closed and loose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5SfsEUaXTE

It's ok to post a pinky as long as you don't always need to and want to do otherwise. It's ok to rest your wrist behind the bridge as long as you don't need to and want to do otherwise.

If you're having trouble playing without posting at a certain point all you can do is stop posting. Practice slowly the way you want to play. Learn to do it right. Every time you practice while posting you're just teaching yourself to do something you don't want to do.

Love to all,
Ken
Ken, on the second mando break, starting at 2:45 , Tim's hand is more closed and in one place, and it appears to me that he could be posting his pinky. I can't tell for sure in the video, but when the solo is over and he goes back to strumming, his hand opens and his whole arm moves more.

[MikeB]

When I decided I wanted to stop posting my pinky, I thought I'd never get it. But, I started doing it just on new tunes, as I learned them. Since I was playing so slowly anyway, and didn't have any particular habits with those tunes, it worked. One day I was playing an older tune, and I just lifted my pinky and that was that. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[PseudoCelt]

I think the "whatever works" approach is valid, as long as you've given the alternatives a fair go and decided that they don't work as well.

It probably took me a year or more to really change my technique, then more work to get it better, but I'm glad now that I put the effort in.

I still try out different hand positions and pick grips, just in case...

Patrick

[bradeinhorn]

i disagree. "whatever works" is actually the greatest source of developing and fostering bad habits. most people arent happy gilmore.

[jasona]

Ken, on the second mando break, starting at 2:45 , Tim's hand is more closed and in one place, and it appears to me that he could be posting his pinky. I can't tell for sure in the video, but when the solo is over and he goes back to strumming, his hand opens and his whole arm moves more.
I love Tim's right hand! Would you call what Tim is doing there "posting" (which suggests a stationary anchor point) or "dragging" (lightly sweeping his right finger tips along the top to provide a sense of space and depth)? My instructors have suggested using the fingerrest as a guide in this manner. Nothing is fixed in place, but you still get a sense for where you are. I think Grisman some ssomething similar using the outside of his "karate chop" from various videos I've watched.

[Jim Broyles]

Well, it could be that too. I couldn't tell, but I noticed that his hand closed up and his pick stroking became very short when he went into the solo. I didn't think I posted at all, and I still don't consciously do it, but I noticed a shiny spot on my satin finished mandolin in the area between the top of the treble f hole and the end of the fingerboard. I have been making a conscious effort to avoid letting my pinky touch the top ever since I noticed this. I still rest my wrist behind the bridge sometimes, but I truly don't notice a decrease in sound quality.

[picksnbits]

I've noticed that lately my forearm is resting against the tailpiece. Wasn't something I made a conscious decision to start doing, but I'm thinking it's probably a suitable approach. Gives me a reference point without locking my hand into one position and I can't imagine it hampering the tone significantly.

[James P]

Here's what appears to be an example of serious ring finger anchoring. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evo6fb9sc7U) #All the motoring seems to come from the elbow with the wrist staying relatively still. #All bets are off when she starts playing rhythm.

I have no idea what's right or wrong, but it is interesting to look around and see how many different approaches there are to getting a good sound.

[Ken Sager]

I didn't see Tim posting, just slowing down. His hand was already open. I prefer to think of him as a sometime dragger, not poster, of fingers.

My suggestion to post unless you don't want to is aimed at making yourself happy. If you think posting is slowing you down, don't post. If you don't think it stops you, then do what makes you happy.

What's more important than your happiness? If you want to play your best, don't post. If you're happy where you are, then post away.

Best,
Ken

[JeffD]

I'm having a tough time keeping my right hand airborn
Why on earth would you want to?

There are, apparently, many great mandolinists who do, and many who don't plant their hand somehow.

Just about every mandolin player I have ever seen playing live, either at a jam or a concert, has to one extent or another planted a pinky or palm or wrist in their playing -usually it seems when playing a melodic lead or solo.

Most importantly: Except for playing straight chords, I can't see any real technical advantage to the airborn technique.


Read everyone's advice above, there are great points on both sides - but also remember Calvin, (of Calvin and Hobbes) who said: "I can't imagine mastering the skills involved here without a clearer understanding of who's going to be impressed."

[Jim Broyles]

Ken, Tim closed his hand for the solo. We are looking at it from straight away, but to me, he could be planting his pinky on the top. I don't care what he does, his playing sounds great to me, and so does Sierra Hull's, who most definitely posts (James P's link above). What I hear from John McG., is that Sierra produces phenomenal music despite less than optimum technique, and her sound might even be better if she got her finger off the mandolin top.

[picksnbits]

In watching pros pick on video, I'm pretty sure I've seen individuals go from a loosely closed fist to fingers extended to semi-posting against the side of the fretboard, maybe even in the same song while moving from rhythm to picking to tremolo. I think there's almost as many ways to do it right as there are to do it wrong. I'd hate to see somebody fixate on doing it the one right way when some other "right way" might work best for them. "Whatever works" probably doesn't include all the "wrong" ways. Ultimately the wrong ways won't work, at least not well or for very long. Some of us are capable of learning from others mistakes and some of us has to work it out for ourselves.

[jmcgann]

Here's a true life story about posting:

I have a friend who is a great professional guitarist with a well known band. He came to me for a lesson specifically to try to stop posting his pinky. He could hear the improvement in tone and projection happen when he didn't post, but just couldn't play what he wanted up to speed without doing it- 30+ years of posting burned deeply into his hands/mindset. he really wants to make the change, but the habit#

(read: whatever works)

is too deeply ingrained.

To respect his privacy I won't reveal his name- not that it matters, really, because he does play great despite the posting- but he feels he is suffering for it, because he feels he can't maximize his potential with his current technique, yet the technique is too deeply ingrained to shake.

Whether you are a weekend warrior or a 5-hour-a-day-plus-gigs player, it's just some food for thought.

[mythicfish]

John,
I've got the "same" friend ... he's just got a different name.

Curt

[Peter Hackman]

Ken, Tim closed his hand for the solo. We are looking at it from straight away, but to me, he could be planting his pinky on the top. I don't care what he does, his playing sounds great to me, and so does Sierra Hull's, who most definitely posts (James P's link above). What I hear from John McG., is that Sierra produces phenomenal music despite #less than optimum technique, and her sound might even be better if she got her finger off the mandolin top.
Obviously, O'Brien is a stealth poster. I can see him folding his pinky
in under his fist so we won't see what he's up to. Possibly one solution
then would be to paint your pinky the same color as the top of your mandolin.

You're all just being snooty and elitistic about this topic.

[Soupy1957]

"Thanks" for the many fine suggestions and help. I think I discovered what started me "posting" my fingers....it was when I bought the Epi and Washburn which were the first two mandolins outa the four that had pick guards.

Prior to the pick guard, I wasn't planting or posting. I think I'll get rid of the pick guards for starters.

-Soupy1957

P.S.: "I" tend to be a loose-hand picker...not a "fist" picker. Now if I could just keep my pointer finger from scuffing across the strings all the time, perhaps I could have a nail on that finger that didn't have a "v" groove...lol.

[jmcgann]

You're all just being snooty and elitistic about this topic.


Gosh, please forgive us, Peter! http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/1076.gif

Actually, I am trying to pass on real live information gained firsthand from real live recognized master players like Andy Statman and Russ Barenberg. The story about the player above is 100% true.

Do you think they are snooty and elitist, or just me? Is it snooty to offer information that could really help someone's playing, as opposed to opinion sharing?

Are you really getting better results than Russ and Andy? If so, please, share them with us, instead of the insults! Many of us on this board are trying to learn as much as we can...



Now if I could just keep my pointer finger from scuffing across the strings all the time, perhaps I could have a nail on that finger that didn't have a "v" groove...lol.

I have gotten the very same nail wear, and it still happens occasionally. I try to keep it tucked back, but sometimes it wants to come out of hiding...

[Peter Hackman]

Here's a true life story about posting:

I have a friend who is a great professional guitarist with a well known band. He came to me for a lesson specifically to try to stop posting his pinky. He could hear the improvement in tone and projection happen when he didn't post, but just couldn't play what he wanted up to speed without doing it- 30+ years of posting burned deeply into his hands/mindset. he really wants to make the change, but the habit#

(read: whatever works)

is too deeply ingrained.

To respect his privacy I won't reveal his name- not that it matters, really, because he does play great despite the posting- but he feels he is suffering for it, because he feels he can't maximize his potential with his current technique, yet the technique is too deeply ingrained to shake.

Whether you are a weekend warrior or a 5-hour-a-day-plus-gigs player, it's just some food for thought.

Many finger stylists post. Merle Travis planted three fingers, Chet Atkins
planted one. Atkins played with four fingers, just like the classical players
(who never post; and they don't use thumpicks ...)

But it's odd that any flatpicking guitarist should have arrived
at a posting technique, given the #large motions of the right hand.

What did you suggest? I watched a couple of videos of Tal Farlow and Barney Kessel. Farlow appears to be a brusher or dragger, Kessel a closed fist floater.
Kessel to my ears has the cleaner time and better articulation.
I'm a dragger myself, on both guitar and mandolin, and I suppose
that technique would be easier for someone changing from posting.

[jmcgann]

Tal and Barney; both giants. Tal's stuff from the '50's is pretty clean, though; he sounds less so later, but the ideas are to die for.
"The Complete Verve Sessions" on Mosaic has most of Tal's classic period.
Whatever works when you are a genius...

http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/114.gif http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/114.gif http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/114.gif

[groveland]

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. The Upslide Reels Medley (http://www.myspace.com/johnmcgann) is unreel. I'm going to have to get me one of them airborn right hands. (And put that metronome to work, too.)

[mandolooter]

Quote
Now if I could just keep my pointer finger from scuffing across the strings all the time, perhaps I could have a nail on that finger that didn't have a "v" groove...lol.

Well its good to know that this habit isn't mine alone! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Soupy1957]

Ok, so ya'll have seen the best...now watch the worst!! Wanna good laugh? After 8 months on the mandolin, here's where I'm at..

http://www.livevideo.com/video/
68F1A73EE50A488F8509E654B057C7B3/
soupy-s-2nd-video.aspx


-Soupy1957

[MandoSquirrel]

Doesn't work; where is it?. Page not found.

[James P]

Information... (http://www.livevideo.com/video/68F1A73EE50A488F8509E654B057C7B3/soupy-s-2nd-video.aspx)

[Soupy1957]

Thanks "James"...wish I knew how to condense a link like that!

-Soupy1957

[cooper4205]

Here (http://www.livevideo.com/video/68F1A73EE50A488F8509E654B057C7B3/soupy-s-2nd-video.aspx)

oops...i though James' link was to instructions!

[Jim Broyles]

Soupy, the formatting went in the wrong place and messed up your link. James P fixed it, but I didn't notice until after I figured out how to see your video on my own. How's the sound quality on that video? Pretty close to live and in person?

The way to format a hyperlink:

Your text to appear in the post. (the URL of where you want people to go)

If any of the iB Code formatting code symbols gets placed out of order, the link won't work.

[Soupy1957]

Pretty close, JB...just wish the refresh rates would keep speed.

-Soupy1957

[Jim Broyles]

In that case, I believe that your mandolin sounds a little thin. Are those the TI strings?

[Soupy1957]

Just like listening to my own voice on a tape, the strings DO sound a bit thin on the video...to me, (behind the mando) they sound mellow and woody.

yes, those are the TI strings..I'll be posting a video soon of the Epi with the JM-11's.

-Soupy1957

[JeffD]

Soupy thats farther along than I was at 8 months, my goodness.

[Jim Broyles]

Soupy, in your next to last post above, the words "like this?" would appear as the link if they were closer to the first part and the / was before the URL in the final set of brackets.

[Soupy1957]

well THAT'S certainly encouraging, Jeff...thanks for makin me feel better about my ###### play..(sincerely)

-Soupy1957

[Jim Broyles]

Geez, ya deleted it before my post came through.

[Soupy1957]

JB: send me an e-mail (remember the comcast address?) showing me the layout...I guess I just can't picture it.

-Soupy1957

[cooper4205]

what are you using for a mic? i just bought a webcam, but can't seem to figure out how to get audio

[JeffD]

Has it been verified that "posting" a pinky significantly affects the tone? It is easy to say "well it just makes sense", but has anyone really tested it?

And is the difference the same with an arch top as with a flat top, f-holes vs round holes, what about bowlbacks.

I have played all different kinds of mandolins and haven't detected a difference in tone.

Certainly is is less difference than I notice between different kinds of picks, or whether or not I hug the back of the mandolin to my chest.

I admit this is subjective, and perhaps I can be shown the diffence it makes in the sound - but I haven't experienced it.

My point is that (boy am I going to get in trouble for this) posting or not posting seems way way down the list of things you can do to improve your sound. For those of you who don't think the difference in sound between a $0.17 pick and a $4.00 pick is worth it, why struggle with not posting your pinky? And those of us who can't realistically imagine spending more than $1200 for a mandolin, and more likely much less - the oh so subtle difference posting may make compared to the compromise in tone we have already considered acceptable in our choice of instruments.. it just doesn't make sense to me.

Just some thoughts - I am open to re-evaluation in light of explanation.

[Soupy1957]

Cooper: Most of the webcams COME with a mic, but in my case I'm using a headset (the Cam has a mic).

-Soupy1957

[Soupy1957]

Jeff: it isn't so much the tone that's affected, as I understand it, but rather the limitation of the right hand.

I LIKE to "Post" my pinky, to keep me oriented to the strings. The folks in here however, are advising that I should be using my forearm against the armrest or body of the mando, for string orientation (if I understood correctly). Some use the bridge as their anchor point.

-Soupy1957

[James P]

(That's not that bad, Soup. #Nothing the Metronominatrix couldn't whip into shape.)

Back to the topic, imO, posting less would definitely improve my playing. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Soupy1957]

In a "Jam" setting (last night as well) I'm fine with 3-chord changes with four-finger & 3-finger chords.

It's getting used to the minor chords, and learning "lead breaks" that has me in a tizzy.....I just ain't got the speed,accuracy or familiarity with the neck to do very well, but that will come with time I guess.

-Soupy1957

[cooper4205]

Cooper: Most of the webcams COME with a mic, but in my case I'm using a headset (the Cam has a mic).

-Soupy1957
not mine http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Soupy1957]

tryalink (http://www.livevideo.com/video/68F1A73EE50A488F8509E654B057C7B3/soupy-s-2nd-video.aspx)

[Jim Broyles]

That's it! You got it.

[Jeroen]

Bad habit, good company.
Don, Adam, Sam and Butch.

[Soupy1957]

Jeroen: Whose layin their pinky fully down in the far left photo?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Whoa!! Layin it down, even!!

-Soupy1957

[jmcgann]

Has it been verified that "posting" a pinky significantly affects the tone? It is easy to say "well it just makes sense", but has anyone really tested it?

Yes.


Bad habit, good company.
Don, Adam, Sam and Butch.

I risk being a boring drone and say it again- if you are Don, Adam, Sam or Butch, no problem. The rest of us may want to think about why alternatives to posting might be worth considering.

Or not. You can also copy what your favorite players do, since it works for them, it must be good. I think that WHAT's going on in the mind and soul of the player is more important than HOW they get the music out. Since most people on the Café are not Don, Adam, Sam and Butch, the advice of someone like Andy Statman (who I know made a lot of Nashville mandolin players leave his recent show feeling humbled) might be seen as a path toward a more unlimited technique. IMHO, YMMV and if you want to post, who am I to say otherwise...

[Soupy1957]

YMMV? (Define please)

-Soupy1957

[Jim Broyles]

... who am I to say otherwise...
Who are you?? Why, John McGann, the composer and performer of the Upslide Reels Medley, previously linked in this thread. This ought to carry significant weight, IMEHO.

[Jim Broyles]

Soupy - Your Mileage May Vary. You know, from automobile commercials.

[Kbone]

BTW John, ( not to change the subject )your " Upslide Reels Melody" blew me away - you're ' da bomb.' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[JeffD]

Bad habit, good company.
Don, Adam, Sam and Butch.
More of the same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhOOhIale6M

[Peter Hackman]

Has it been verified that "posting" a pinky significantly affects the tone? It is easy to say "well it just makes sense", but has anyone really tested it?

And is the difference the same with an arch top as with a flat top, f-holes vs round holes, what about bowlbacks.

I have played all different kinds of mandolins and haven't detected a difference in tone.

Certainly is is less difference than I notice between different kinds of picks, or whether or not I hug the back of the mandolin to my chest.

I admit this is subjective, and perhaps I can be shown the diffence it makes in the sound - but I haven't experienced it.

My point is that (boy am I going to get in trouble for this) posting or not posting seems way way down the list of things you can do to improve your sound. For those of you who don't think the difference in sound between a $0.17 pick and a $4.00 pick is worth it, why struggle with not posting your pinky? And those of us who can't realistically imagine spending more than $1200 for a mandolin, and more likely much less - the oh so subtle difference posting may make compared to the compromise in tone we have already considered acceptable in our choice of instruments.. it just doesn't make sense to me.

Just some thoughts - I am open to re-evaluation in light of explanation.
My own story is I learned with a pickguard, brushing, dragging, or whatever,
because that's the way I play the guitar. About 11 years ago, after several years
of not playing, I bought a Flatiron, without a pickguard (I didn't even think of checking!) With no guidance from a guard I started unfolding one or two fingers,
and posting, which seriously hampered my playing. Having small hands
I simply tended to dip the pick too low, producing a stiff and jerky
rhythm. Later a friend of mine installed a pickguard, and I
automatically went back to my old technique. Conceivably it's not about the "tone" of individual notes, but
about the general flow.

[Peter Hackman]

Bad habit, good company.
Don, Adam, Sam and Butch.
This seems to be a topic where you tend to get either dogmatic or
defensive. It's also one that's easily confused by unclear concepts.

In the leftmost picture the player is curling the fingers exactly the way
us draggers do. The curled pinky touches the guard but I strongly doubt
that it's fixed in place. But we can't really tell from one single still!
In the rightmost picture the player may very well have his pinky sliding
along the guard - again we have no way of knowing!

I don't think it's a good idea to seek comfort in the various odd habits
of established players. I don't know why Sam Bush plays with
so much forearm motion - I've heard it's the result of an accident -
but it works. But I think it would be silly to conclude that his technique
is worth imitating.

Let your arms hang loosely along your body. Then lift your right hand
and look at it from the side. What do you see?

[Soupy1957]

Look at my right hand from WHICH side....lol
-Soupy1957

[Steven Stone]

[I don't know why Sam Bush plays with
so much forearm motion -]

He broke his wrist in a car door.

He used to play with a much more fluid wrist before the accident.

My two cents to this thread is that John Mcgann is right. Totally right. Period. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[cooper4205]

hey soup-

you ever thought about sitting up straight and wearing a strap while you play?

you seem to be in a kinda awkward position on the videos and that profile pic- changing that might be one remedy for loosening up while you play

[Soupy1957]

cooper: absolutely agree...I started out practicing in the posture as in the videos, but quickly realized that I needed to be standing or sitting upright, and wearing a strap (I prefer standing) so that the weight of the instrument (as little as it is) can be borne by the strap and not my left hand and right forearm, which frees me up.

The only reason I sat for the videos is just because it seemed prudent at the time.

-Soupy1957

[AlanN]

Tal's stuff from the '50's is pretty clean, though; he sounds less so later, but the ideas are to die for.
Whatever works when you are a genius...
I was lucky to catch Tal in the early 90's at a place called the Yankee Clipper in Sea Girt, NJ, where he lived. He and a bass (usu. Gary Mazzaroppi) would play a Sunday brunch. Me and the wife (and babies) would go to eat fatty foods and listen to phat (see, I'm hip) guitar. I talked to him a bit, turns out he started on the mandolin in Greensboro (although he tuned it like a uke).

I have a recording of him doing the fastest Cherokee I've ever heard.

[jmcgann]

I have a recording of him doing the fastest Cherokee I've ever heard.

The liner notes say it's quarter note = 400, for those of you who post and want to play along # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Note: if your metronome doesn't go that fast, set it to whole note = 100.
One click per measure, or 8 notes for every click (isn't that a Beach Boys song?)

Makes "White House Blues" sound like "Ripple" http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/1028.gif

[mythicfish]

"The liner notes say it's quarter note= 400, for those of you who post and want to play along "

That could very well qualify him as a non-posting poster child.

Curt

[rhess595]

Am just making the transition from posting with the small finger, and found an easy way to get the correct plane for the pick action with the free right hand. Doing a tremolo motion across all the strings forces you to move the pick in the correct plane. #Then, once your muscles have got the movement it's easy to tremolo on a single string(or pick) without clunking and sticking from a floating loose cannon. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[JeffD]

I LIKE to "Post" my pinky, to keep me oriented to the strings. #
Me too.

Right now I find that my speed is more limited by my left hand, and coordination between hands. I can pick much faster than I can keep up with fingering correct notes!

Many of my variations and improvisations involve finding fingerings I can do fast without violating the "feeling" of the tune.

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