Respect your elders

[RizinRico]

well I ordered the orrico tailpiece from elderly last night. it seemed to me that all over the site they were offering free ship with orders over $149. so with my $80 tailpiece i picked up a few other items that brought the total to about $160. the order calculator added in shipping but I figure its the default and leave a note in the special instructions area that I should have free shipping. well it turns out that free isnt always what its cracked up to be and you have to qualify for free shipping by making only specific kinds of purchases. there is a linked page that explains it all behind the big first thing you see on the home page and they are only charging $9 to ship but it will be my last order with elderly. i didnt think i needed a lawyer to sort out a free shipping offer. i guess they would rather have my $9 than the $1,000s i prob would have spent over the years. too bad that seems to have become the American way to do business.

[delsbrother]

there is a linked page that explains it all
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Andrew Lewis]

I'm usually not one to speak ill of a brand or business in a public forum such as this, but, in the interest of informing fellow cafe members, I have to express a similar beef. I, too, just got bit by the "free shipping" thing with Elderly. To make matters worse, the order was placed three months ago (supposed to be free shipping at the time) and, despite several emails from me requesting updates, I only received one reply two months ago with no message and only a delivery date in the message area giving the date 3/09/07. After it still didn't make it, I thought "Forget it. I'll just order one from somewhere else as they seemed to have lost my order." Well, I just received their automated email saying the bridge was shipped and my credit card was charged for the price + shipping. Now obviously, the unit was on backorder, but I was never given this information despite my inquiries (and yes, I know they include a disclaimer stating that they may have to backorder items), and they apparently forgot the free shipping.

I do believe that there are more important things in life to get riled up about, but responding to customer inquiries and holding to one's initial promises (such as free shipping) are an important part of running a business. I, too, will be shopping elsewhere in the future.

Edit: This was a different free shipping deal than the one mentioned in Rico's post, and shipping was not calculated into my initial order nor was it calculated in their intial confirmation email to me. There were no strings attached in my situation.

[ShaneJ]

Quote from Elderly's home page (http://www.elderly.com/welcome.htm) :
"FREE SHIPPING on Orders Over $149!
This offer includes most all of our new products shipped within the continental United States. Click here (http://www.elderly.com/freeshipping-offer.html) for details on this limited time offer.

Our shipping is faster than ever, too! "

Quote from the next page when you click here: (http://www.elderly.com/freeshipping-offer.html)

" Free Shipping Offer

For a limited time, Elderly Instruments is offering free ground shipping on web orders of specially-marked new in-stock merchandise (excluding taxes if applicable) totaling over $149, after any coupons or discounts have been applied.

This offer is for online customers only. If you wish to place an order by phone, you must let our phone sales person know that you saw this offer online.

Individual items qualifying for free shipping are clearly marked on our web site near the item's price.

This offer does not apply to orders shipped outside of the 48 continental states of the USA, nor to amplifiers or vintage or used merchandise, or empty instrument cases or empty gigbags, or Sadowsky-brand merchandise. Backorders and special orders are also excluded from this offer.

Free shipping is only for items you buy and keep. The outbound shipping charge will be deducted from your refund if an item that shipped for free is returned."

Here's the free shipping image that appears next to a whole bunch of items' prices: (dare I say, "Here's your sign"?)

http://elderly.com/images/freeship.gif

I don't think many folks will need a lawyer to sort that out for them. My experiences with Elderly have all been great. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[pathfinder]

Yeah, I just found that out too. #I received a $228.85 order yesterday (two books w/CDs, a gigbag and a slide guitar steel). #I got charged $28.00 in shipping costs. #

No axe to grind. #Just echoing the suggestion to read the 'fine print' on what's eligible for 'free shipping' at Elderly these days. #FWIW.

[MandoPirate]

I cancelled an order from elderly last week due to the free shipping snag ... spent my 181.00 at "the Mandolin Store" instead ...

MP

[Stephen Perry]

The problem I face is probably like Elderly's - full text of every detail on every page, or one easily changed page with terms and conditions. I've also found that a substantial number of people will not read terms in bold on the page with an item. I don't know what the solution is.

Now as far as responsiveness, that should be pretty good with most of us. I'm finding more emails aren't getting through to me than ever before, and I scan the bulk folder before deleting things. Any message without a subject that hits the bulk folder is certainly toast!

I don't see any intent to rip people off here. Just an incentive on some items, with a reasonable, if not transparent, attempt to make the terms accessible.

[PCypert]

Is it that hard to just eat the shipping costs on everything? I mean they say free for over 149...make it free for over 149...easy peasy. Don't have this problem at the Apple Store. And why not on Vintage instruments? Are they heavier or more costly than new? I've almost bought from them, but this kind of stuff turned me off. Can't remember where I ended up getting my stuff from...but it was a shop that honored statements.

Even if I'm eating the shipping somewhere else it's a nice feeling when it's all included. I also like it over here where the VAT and Taxes are included in most sticker prices. Really nice for shopping. If something says 400 it's 400...not 460 by the time things are done.

Paul

[mythicfish]

Have you read the "Terms and Conditions" section on your credit card agreement. The "fine print" is the glue
that holds our economy together. It's neither "good" nor "bad" ... it just "is". People who pay their bills in full
every month are called "deadbeats" by the credit industry.

Curt

[ApK]

Other sites that have similar offers (like MF) make it far more clear that it's on MOST orders, not all, and the restrictions are a bit more up front than on Elderly. They would do well to make one or two minor changes to the wording on their home page and avoid some ill will from disappointed customers.

[Hans]

I took advantage of that offer the other day and ordered 10 cases. Didn't take too long before I got a phone call! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bradeinhorn]

i too have been in this situation with elderly. it was on a more expensive/unique item so it wasn't a huge deal to me, but i think elderly needs to rework the way they offer this free shipping gimmick and make it more explicit.

here's why i am concerned - rizinrico -paid an additional 80 dollars off his original 80 just to save a few bucks in shipping...logically i could see throwing in an extra set of strings or something to hit the mark, but doubling the initial expense!!! Sounds crazy, but thanks to the free shipping over 149 ad they totally got him, and I bet this type of thing happens ALL the time. People see this and then think they are freerolling the place. by the time they see the shipping programmed in to the cost, they either deny it will actually be charged or suck it up because they have already pulled the trigger and justified the purchase. Elderly is a savvy sales company. They know exactly what they are doing. I mean come on #- there are 5 people here in one day of this thread who have fallen victim to this!

I mean no disrespect to Elderly - am just offering my opinion regarding the issue. I think it is important this gets to them as they might very well lose future business from this.

[kyblue]

I'm with Steve, emails just have a way of getting lost. I wouldn't get too upset with anyone until I made a call and talked to a live body.

I'm working with sunburst on a new dola, and he pm'ed me through here last night and asked me if I had received some emails from him. I hadn't, who knows why. They weren't in my spam folder, either. I certainly wouldn't be ignoring emails from John, not with anticipating a new mando!

Paula

[Joe F]

A few weeks ago Elderly was offering free shipping for orders over $35. #I ordered a number of CDs, all of which had the "free shipping" icon attached to the listing. #Everything went smoothly, I was not charged for shipping, and they arrived very quickly. #Very smooth and satisfactory transaction.

[RizinRico]

yes I can appreciate that there was another page. yes the page did explain the free shipping rules clearly. since elderly was able to post a little sign on all the items that are elligible for free shipping why not also post a sign that says NO FREE SHIPPING on items that dont qualify for the perk? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I wont make this mistake again with elderly because I wont do business with them again. as the consumer i have the final say where my money goes and in the future i will exercise that right.

[ApK]

why not also post a sign that says NO FREE SHIPPING on items that dont qualify for the perk? .
Because they are not stupid.

No one trying to sell stuff would do that anymore than they would put a "NOT ON SALE" next to every full price item.

But I'm with you that the exclusions and limitations needed to be more up front.

The device does indeed work in getting folks to roll up, when it's done properly, as not to cause bad feelings.
On Musician's Friend, whenever I place any order for $30 or $40 or more, I think "what might I possibly want to order in the next few months that I can order now to get free shipping?"

[JEStanek]

I love Amazon b/c orders over $25 get free standard shipping. I wanted to order a battery for my camera, a string winder (the one I wanted was not available at Elderly) and the new Uncle Earl CD and the order was over the $25 limit. When I got to the order page I had three seperate orders with 3 shipping charges. The battery and winder came from other stores Amazon fronts. That kind stinks and made me rethink how easily I go to them.

If I ever have a question with an order to someplace I use the phone first rather than get more angry with e-mails (unreliable after an order has been made). I love e-commerce for routine ordering but customer service requires a phone call.

Jamie

[Jerry Byers]

I love Amazon b/c orders over $25 get free standard shipping. I wanted to order a battery for my camera, a string winder (the one I wanted was not available at Elderly) and the new Uncle Earl CD and the order was over the $25 limit. When I got to the order page I had three seperate orders with 3 shipping charges. The battery and winder came from other stores Amazon fronts. That kind stinks and made me rethink how easily I go to them.
I've scratched my head over that one too. I found a book that I wanted and Amazon suggested that I could order the book in a combo deal for a savings. Of course, once I place them in my shopping cart, there were two different shipping fees.

[fwoompf]

The amazon free shipping only applies to their own things. If you clicked on new or used and buy it from resellers it doesn't work. Lots of times that's cheaper anyway just because of the price differential between amazon selling things and used things from a reseller.

I've never had any trouble...just gotta read the fine print I guess.

[wschart]

A couple of general comments here:

First of all, free shipping on selected items is more than likely a stategy to steer customers to those items, rather than because certain items are cheaper to ship than other similar items. I'd imagine either slow movers or perhaps high profit items.

Secondly, if your credit card has been billed for items not shipped or received, I would contact the credit card company if you don't get any satisfaction from Elderly (or whoever you are doing busines with).

I believe that if a retailer has to backorder an item, and it will involve more than a 30 day delay, they are supposed to inform you and give you the option of waiting or cancelling the order. Also, your card should not be billed until the item actually ships.

[MandoSquirrel]

I've always found Elderly's free shipping items to be marked plainly enough online that there was no confusion; however it did suck when a CD I ordered was not available, putting my total below the free minimum, and I wasn't informed until I received the invoice with the package. I just figured I'd learned to be a more careful shopper.
The only time I ordered from Amazon I learned about their mixed policy on shipping; the items that weren't easily available elsewhere cost extra for shipping, the CD's that came from Amazon were shipped free, but took almost a month to come.

made with real fruit juice..........
always read the fine print! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ShaneJ]

Other sites that have similar offers (like MF) make it far more clear that it's on MOST orders, not all, and the restrictions are a bit more up front than on Elderly. They would do well to make one or two minor changes to the wording on their home page and avoid some ill will from disappointed customers.
Do you mean that Elderly's front page promo should actually SAY that the free shipping applies to "most" of their items?....the same way that it ACTUALLY DOES say "...most all of our new products..."?

Quote from Elderly's home page (http://www.elderly.com/welcome.htm) :
"FREE SHIPPING on Orders Over $149!
This offer includes most all of our new products shipped within the continental United States. Click here (http://www.elderly.com/freeshipping-offer.html) for details on this limited time offer.

Our shipping is faster than ever, too! "

Seriously, it's easy to be in a hurry and not pay attention to details. It's harder for us to admit that we are capable of missing something that obvious. If you cost yourself money by not paying attention to the detail (that is NOT hidden away in fine print on this deal), it's not Elderly's fault. They plainly explained their offer and displayed the needed information very visibly and effectively. PLUS, you get to see the shipping charges you are agreeing to pay BEFORE you confirm your order during checkout. How could they make it more plain without flying someone out to your home to walk you through it?

The frustration of paying more than you expected is understandable. Just don't blame the seller for your own inattention. (no offense intended to ANYONE by saying that) I have made similar mistakes before, and I am sure I will do so again in the future. But they were MY mistakes and not someone else's devious attempt to screw me.

[Jerry Byers]

Details of shipping:


Free Shipping Offer

For a limited time, Elderly Instruments is offering free ground shipping on web orders of specially-marked new in-stock merchandise (excluding taxes if applicable) totaling over $149, after any coupons or discounts have been applied.

This offer is for online customers only. If you wish to place an order by phone, you must let our phone sales person know that you saw this offer online.

Individual items qualifying for free shipping are clearly marked on our web site near the item's price.

This offer does not apply to orders shipped outside of the 48 continental states of the USA, nor to amplifiers or vintage or used merchandise, or empty instrument cases or empty gigbags, or Sadowsky-brand merchandise. Backorders and special orders are also excluded from this offer.

Free shipping is only for items you buy and keep. The outbound shipping charge will be deducted from your refund if an item that shipped for free is returned.

To me, this is not exactly clear. Is it free shipping for one new item in stock if it totals over $149? Or, is it the grand total of all items in the cart? Or, is it the total of all new items in the cart?


FREE SHIPPING on Orders Over $149!
This offer includes most all of our new products shipped within the continental United States. Click here for details on this limited time offer.

Our shipping is faster than ever, too!
I think they could do a better job with the wording. It is NOT free shipping on orders over $149. Also, it doesn't make sense to say most all.

The thing in the fine print that is deceiving is that they will charge you shipping on all backorders. So, if I place an order thinking that I'm getting free shipping and the item is not in inventory, I'm penalized with paying the shipping. It's not my fault it's out of inventory.

Also, if I buy something and have to return it because it's the wrong size or didn't work out for me, now I'm penalized with shipping.

Sorry, I'll have to agree with some of you and say that the shipping details are vague, and that Elderly could do a better job with marketing.

[ApK]

Do you mean that Elderly's front page promo should actually SAY that the free shipping applies to "most" of their items?....the same way that it ACTUALLY DOES say "...most all of our new products..."?
Well, yeah, just like Musician's Friend's home page actually says:

"FREE SHIPPING! On Most Orders Over $99* "

http://www.musiciansfriend.com

It has 'most' and an asterisk and no one has seemed to miss it.

On Elderly's site, the

"FREE SHIPPING on Orders Over $149!"

is in the biggest print, on line by itself, one of the first things to catch your eye on the page.
It has no 'most', no asterisk, the rest of the text is slightly smaller, in a slightly denser, less catchy paragraph, and several people here seem to have missed it.

They're not being evil or cheating or anything, it's just that I'd think they'd rather put the 'most' in the big line and avoid having several people tell people they feel gyped.

ApK

[Andrew Lewis]

To follow up on my inital post, I would say that I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here. In a situation in which fine print is involved, the onus is indeed on the buyer to read all of it. Could Elderly make it clearer for people like Rico? Probably. Do they absolutely have to? Of course, not. But could it ease their relations with customers? More than likely.

As for my situation, my item was one of those that fell within the free shipping thing and they confirmed this through the checkout process and follow up email. Did they just make a mistake when they finally got the item from backorder and shipped it? Yeah. Not that big of a deal. I'll contact them cordially and get the situation resolved. No sweat. And as for customer service contact, I do also agree that a phone call is the best method and email can be dubious at times. I'll probably give them a call at this point to rectify the shipping charge on my CC.

[RizinRico]

yes of course I should have read all of the details regarding free shipping. I just bought my first mando and with an upgraded tailpiece I needed a gigbag, strings and a learn how to play the little guy dvd. i didnt cancel the order. i want what i ordered and i didnt buy extra to make it over $149 by spending $80 to save $9. i trusted elderlys reputation as others have said they have done business with them for 30 yrs with no probs at all. i trusted that when i read free ship on orders over $149 that I would get free shipping. they have lost my trust on the first order. i didnt expect elderly to do something like that, if it had been guitar center or a non-brick & mortar netshop that noone has ever heard of i would certainly have been more careful.
is it my mistake that i missed the rules? why yes it is
is elderly's practice ethical? who cares
will i ever buy from elderly again? why no i will not.
others have fallen in this rut also, maybe a few wont get tripped now

[Stephen Perry]

My tendency is to look for intent and whether the approach is reasonable or not. I've certainly seen Internet advertising where the intent is suspect and the approach quite unreasonable. Elderly doesn't come close to this. In fact, I just spent less than a minute getting to the "free shipping" indicator next to an item. I looked at the home page, saw the "free shipping" - and the clear conditions pointed to. Read the conditions page, very compact, hit "new instruments", hit a Martin HD-28 new and bingo, there's the free shipping indicator.

Having gone through the process, I can't see anything at all confusing, wrong, misleading, or incompetently done on Elderly's part. I like it and will remember it. Maybe I'll use that approach. Very simple.

[Tim]

When someone tells me the information is on their website and describe a series of clicks, the more steps there are the less "friendly" the site is. #I can see those points that the info was on the site but you had to look at least two different places and do a separate subtotal of your purchases to see what applied. #This is a matter of degrees but the more a business makes me feel like I have to work for information on what they offer, the less likely I am to buy. #

I do agree with that the Amazon free shipping on orders over $25 is generally a good thing but it does seem to take a long time for them to ship when shipping is free.

[PCypert]

You have to remember though...you are internet savvy AND you were looking for it. I don't mean to offend, but a lot of bluegrass folks aren't the most tech savvy folks. Some are, but a lot use the internet for simple email and what not. So trying to stretch their limbs for the first time with online ordering...this would be hard to discern....but I do agree that it's not a malicious intent. But it is kind of vague for those not used to looking for fine print for online sales...

Paul

[DryBones]

I still don't think the free shipping if offered on an item should then be excluded if they have to back order an item. You ordered it when it was offered so it should be part of the original "contract".

[ApK]

Steve, you're in thread of people talking about details they don't like in Elderly's approach and comparing them to other approaches that they, as customers, like better, and you would choose the one they are complaining about? You'd rather put "Free shipping on orders over xx" and risk some complaints, than put "Free shipping on most orders over xx*" and avoid them? Or are you only refering to the backorder policy?

[fatt-dad]

Item 1) My experience with Elderly has always been great!

Item 2) I always do business with a real person over the phone. I look at the web page and then call to discuss everything - the product, the "free" offers, etc.

That said, for accessories Sweetwater is really free shipping - on everything. Not much mandolin stuff, but what they have is sent to you for free.

f-d

[Tom Mylet]

My experience with Elderly is almost the opposite. A few months ago I needed a guitar case. Elderly clearly declared it was not included in the free shipping offer. I then went to another online dealer who similarly claimed free shipping, bought a few other items to get up to the free shipping amount and only when I checked out was it stated the case was not included in free shipping. I made the purchase anyway but went away thinking I should have gone with Elderly for at least being forthright...

Mandotom

[Santiago]

Shipping is expensive for dealers too. I once complained to another store that shipping one set of strings costed more than the strings themselves, and he replied, "yes, it costs me more than the strings to package it and ship them." I now buy multiple sets at a time. It's a trade off on the Web, you pay shipping but USUALLY not tax. It's really your responsibility to read the information in plain sight.

[Ken Sager]

Getting upset with Elderly because you didn't read and understand their policy on free shipping is like blaming the guy you hit with your car because you didn't see him (even though you were driving one direction and looking the other).

You were operating the computer. You selected your items, confirmed your credit card, saw the total price INCLUDING SHIPPING. At what point when given the option to cancel did you either not read what was on the screen, or decide to ignore what you did read on the screen? Making the assumption, as you state you did, that they'll remove the shipping price was your choice. You made the wrong choice.

I don't get why you decided to complain about them when you made the mistake. They state pretty clearly what their policy is.

Again, if you decide to ignore it, you can't blame them for you not knowing it.

Joy to all anyway,
Ken

[olgraypat]

I had the same question about the final "check out." My experience has been that the bottom line amount that's going on your credit card is there in black and white and you can either accept or cancel. Doesn't that eliminate any questions? Or maybe that wasn't the case here. Also, maybe instead of trashing Elderly did you try calling and explaining the problem and seeing if something could be worked out? Sorry if that's been discussed before, I've been reading this over a couple of days and can't remember//// My experience with Elderly has been limited, but good.

[stanwerbin]

My name is Stan Werbin and I am the owner/president of Elderly Instruments. Thanks to all of you who have participated in this discussion.

We certainly have no intent to not honor our offers. As do most other businesses who offer free shipping online, we have a page that explains the general offer, plus any exceptions to the offer. We thought we were expressing our free shipping offer clearly, and that people would understand that they were not absolute, but that there were some exceptions.

It seems that not everyone who wants free shipping bothers to read the "fine print" and although I can't blame anybody for not wanting to read through it, I'm surprised that people who haven't read it would be angry at us if they don't qualify.

We know there are some inconsistencies. For instance, it doesn't even make sense to ME that we exclude all empty cases (like, for instance, mandolin cases) from this offer. But our intent is to NOT give free shipping on "oversize" items like guitar cases because they are very costly to ship, and we don't have an easy foolproof way right now for our computers to differentiate between small and large cases. So, since, after all, we're giving something away here, we figured that we could make the rules for the giveaway, and excluded all cases from the offer. That may change, but right now it is the best we can do.

I gather that the real problem may be that our message re the offer is not clear enough. In response to this thread we will be changing some of the wording shortly.

It also sounds like somebody's backorders got messed up, and I apologize for that too. Sometimes things can fall through the cracks, especially on backorders, which tend to be a more manual process. If anybody out there ever has a problem with an order or anything else with Elderly Instruments I would appreciate hearing about it directly, so we can be sure it gets taken care of in a proper manner.

Regards to all,
Stan Werbin
swerbin@elderly.com
888-473-5810 ext 800
517-372-7890 ext 800

[Wesley]

I've got extensive experience with Elderly - I order lots of stuff from them. I've never had a single problem. However i always talk to someone over the phone.

It's still not too late to do that you know. Call someone at Elderly and explain the situation. You'll get more results that way.The folks here at the Mandolin Cafe are nice - but we're only able to offer opinions. To get results you'll need to contact Elderly.

[Jerry Byers]

Thanks Stan for your post. It is a positive reflection on your company and shows that Elderly is in tune with their customers.

[JeffD]

Thanks Stan for your post. It is a positive reflection on your company and shows that Elderly is in tune with their customers.
Amen to that.

I have had small problems from time to time with just about every on line or catalog store with whom I have done business - and Elderly has been among the best in responding to and correcting for the problems experienced.

[GVD]

Ken Sager Posted

... You selected your items, confirmed your credit card, saw the total price INCLUDING SHIPPING...

Exactamundo Ken. I've ordered a lot of merchandise from Elderly and have nothing but praise for them. That said I also make sure I verify all of the charges at checkout just like I do at any other merchant online or otherwise. If the charges don't jibe I cancel the order and go back and read the fine print.

Example
# # # # # # # Strings# # # # ## # # # # # ##$12.95 #
# # # # # # # Book# # # # # # # # # # # # ##$16.25 #
# # # # # # # DVD# # # # # # # # # # # # # #$19.95 #
# # # # # # # subtotal # # # # # # # # # ##$49.15 #
shipping and handling charge ##6.50
# # # # # # # Total Amount # # # # # ##$55.65 #


I really don't know how their backorder shipping policy could be stated any clearer either.


Select backorder option to let us know what to do in case an item or items is out of stock:

Do not backorder (default).

Backorder acceptable, but please hold my order until it is complete.

Backorder acceptable ( I'll pay the extra postage) up to: #4 weeks #60 days

I guess this is just another sign of the times we live in "I made a mistake so now I need to blame it on someone else".

GVD

[Andrew Lewis]

Stan,

I really appreciate your professionalism and proactiveness. I had stated in an earlier post that I was a little turned off with my situation and would likely shop elsewhere, however, in light of this discussion and the many words of praise for Elderly, I was thinking I'd be happy to give y'all another shot. Your post to this thread made me confident that I will return to Elderly again (soon, as a matter of fact - I need a pickup!). As for my backorder/free shipping situation, I'm really not sweating the 6 bucks. Thank you for jumping in on this one...

[RizinRico]

since I started this discussion let me +1 for
Stan and Elderly
with a response like that how could I not give them another chance. I hope that in 30 years I will be saying that I have done business with Elderly since '07 and they have always done right by me.

[Steve-o]

Wow. After reading through this thread, hearing Stan's response and then the buyer's responses, this is a fine example of good customer service. The psychology is clear: Customers like to be heard, whether the complaint is "legitimate" or not, and business owners need to show they CARE, are not perfect, and are willing to change to meet customer expectations. It's all about relationships - we are all human. Elderly did the right thing and it ends on a positive note. That's sweet music to my ears.

P.S. I do regular business with Elderly and will continue to.

[red7flag]

I have had the pleasure of dealing with Stan and the Elderly folks for many years. He is as upfront a person as I have dealt with. I was thinking of trading in an instrument as part of a purchase. He gave me the trade-in price, but informed me that I could probably get more on the open market due to the particular instrument. This is just one example of many of how he has done me right. The honesty that he displays runs through the organization. I have bought both instruments, accessories and CDs from them for a long time. They have always stood beside their product and their service. Thank you for the ride Stan.
Tony Huber