What's the Current Status of the Monroe Loar?

[Nalapombu]

Hey all,

The last time I heard anything about the mando it was still in a bank vault with both sides that were originaly in the deal starting to lawyer up for a fight.
Does anyone have any current information on what the status of the Monroe Mandolin is?

Thanks
Nala

[Scott Tichenor]

I read somewhere that a Japanese investor purchased it on April 1.

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Shame on you, Scott!

[sunburst]

I read somewhere that a Japanese investor purchased it on April 1.
You gonna start that again? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[evanreilly]

I heard that James William Monroe has issued a reward for Scott T's head on a plate!!!
#73987 is residing in a bank vault.

[Tom C]

It ain't being played

[jlb]

This is truly a shame and a sign of modern greed.

That mando should either be on display in a museum or in the hands of a pro, ala Clarence White's D-28.

[John Zimm]

This is truly a shame and a sign of modern greed.

That mando should either be on display in a museum or in the hands of a pro, ala Clarence White's D-28.
I tend to agree. Being an historian by trade, I understand the importance of preserving relics of the past for future generations, which usually involves handling said objects very carefully; however, instruments are different. They need to be played for several reasons. Mandolins are nice to look at, but I'm sure we all agree that the beautiful sound of the mandolin outweighs their cosmetic value.

-John.

[GTison]

Who would be worthy to wield that sword???

[AlanN]

Why, me, of course http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[John Flynn]

I'd like to hear Grisman play it on a "Tone Poems IV." Here would be a great idea: Record a CD where all the great mando players get to play a track with Monroe's mandolin: Grisman, Bush, Compton, Thile, etc. That would be cool! Who else should be on the list?

[GTison]

alan you should change your name to king aurthur or strideror arragorn or something. LOL

[jlb]

Just my 2 cents but I think it would be best suited to go on tour with Ronnie McCoury.

Though Skaggs might disagree, Del & the Boys is probably the closest thing to traditional BG we have left.

[Moose]

Based on my research - and "information" - I believe the McCoury "scenerio" would give pleasure to Monroe. Del and Bill were close - I would suspect a mutual respect for each other as both musician and friend. Takeing nothing from Mssr. Scaggs as the "supposed" heir..., Bill would probably want Del's boy(Ronnie) to USE(!) it. I have no doubt that Ronnie would be WELL aware of the Monroe "mystique" surrounding THAT instrument - and.., he would do justice to that "history. In both respect, dignity and of course there's no question of Ronnie's talent and ability. Locked in a vault to "slumber"...??..naaaa.!Just my .02. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Keith Wallen]

I'd like to hear Grisman play it on a "Tone Poems IV." Here would be a great idea: Record a CD where all the great mando players get to play a track with Monroe's mandolin: Grisman, Bush, Compton, Thile, etc. That would be cool! Who else should be on the list?
That would be cool. A mandolin extravaganza II using Bill's mandolin where you could compare the tone each player gets out of it compared to Bill.

[SternART]

I hear there is a similar concept CD in the works, but with a different Loar.

[Scott Tichenor]

Art, you're correct according some a couple of the big boys at Mandofest. Supposedly be called "Tone Poets". Reischman is going to be one of the poets among many. About all I know of it. Interesting little project.

[evanreilly]

I think that
1) Ronnie McC is an overall better player than Skaggs;
2) Skaggs has/had several Loars;
3) Remember Ronnie giving ole Bill his IBMA mandolin player award???
Ronnie would be a better custodian. IMHO.

[Bob Sayers]

I guess I would say it now belongs in a museum collection--the Smithsonian Institution, the Country Museum Hall of Fame and Museum, even the Gibson Company collection. From what I've read it's not in the greatest shape and I'd hate to see a bunch of fans--even respectful musicians--love it to death. It reminds me of Bix Beiderbecke's cornet. Bought by a wealthy West Coast fan, it was periodically trotted out for "cornet tastings." Fortunately, the purchase agreement included the proviso that the instrument would revert after several years to the possession of a museum in Davenport, Iowa--where it remains today and can be viewed by the general public. Selfishly, I wish it were at the Smithsonian where I could see it. But at least it's reasonably safe and secure.

Bob

[danman]

What happened with the Rosine Project, Doc Mercer thing? My lastest understanding was that his group was trying to raise more money to fund the purchase. If James Monroe still has it, he should set up some sort of agreement to have it on public display. I don't mind money being an issue.Let one of the museums pay a fee to show it and take care of it for a while, if it is indeed for sale on the market.

[ethanopia]

I just jammed last night with a banjo player that is a trustee and former member of the board of directors for the Bluegrass Hall of Fame/Museum in Owensboro KY, just up the road from Rosine. He told me in no official terms that Cambell Mercer and the Hall of Fame are working very hard to figure out a deal where Mon's Loar would spend sometime at the Museum and sometime in Rosine given that they are so close. But it should in fact stay put and right where it belongs.

Now all we have to do is figure out how to convinve them to let us play it!

[8ch(pl)]

I'm saving up to buy it, got $62.15 so far.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I've heard that that mando has pretty bad tone now after being completely destroyed and put back togethor.

[AlanN]

Listen to Master of Bluegrass and then see if you say the same thing.

[JDSmith]

I agree with Alan on that one.

But how much would all of us geeks on this site (myself included, of course!) be willing to pay for a 10-12 track CD where Bush, Grisman, Thile, Skaggs, McCoury, Stuart, Pinkham, Tichenor(!), etc. choose one tune each they play on that legendary instrument? Wow! Just think of the possibilities!

I'd almost be willing to pay the $62.15 8ch has saved up!

[mandodude]

Bill would probably want Del's boy(Ronnie) to USE(!) it.
I have to wonder if Ronnie would want to use it...

I mean, Ronnie is a successful, working musician who has obviously honed not only his craft, but his instrument as well, to a point where it works to the best advantage of his particular playing style, his technique, the sound he's looking for, etc., etc. #His mando is the primary "tool of his trade"... it's how he earns his living (and a rather nice living it is at that!). #Where's the incentive for him to want to "mess with success?"

The only thing that makes Monroe's mando "special" is that it is, in fact, Monroe's mando. #It's inherent value does not lie in any special construction (or re-construction) techniques used in it. #The wood's not special. #The strings are just strings. #In fact, from what I understand, the "manly" action makes it actually a pretty tough axe to perform on... and you know that the purists would be up in arms if another musician were to attempt to "tweak" the action on Bill's axe to their own liking! #Sure, I know it's a Loar - but there are other Loars out there... a lot of 'em in a lot better shape than this one, too! #I believe that if Ronnie actually wanted to play a Loar instead of his Gil, he certainly could. #If Monroe's mando is worth a million bucks, it's only because it's Monroe's mando, not because it's an intrinsically great instrument.

So where's the incentive for Ronnie (or any other successful artist for that matter) to want to take on the responsibility and liability for haulin' a piece of Americana back 'n' forth across the country? #Of course, only Ronnie can answer this. #I dunno... maybe the mojo that many folks believe resides in that axe would be reason enough for him to jump at the opportunity - but I'm bettin' not!

[floyd floar]

I hate to be the pine sap at a pickers' picnic but the thought occurs to me that WSM's F5 may not sound the way we may think it would. It was smashed to smithereens. I know experts pieced it back together, but how it could it ever sound the same? Who's to say that a Kentucky or Fender probably sound better than Ol' Hoss presently? It's like melting down the Holy Grail and reconstructing it- There, I've said it.:(

[mandodude]

It was smashed to smithereens. I know experts pieced it back together...
Hey, floyd!

The expert that pieced it back together is a somewhat-frequent poster here at the cafe!

While we're on this subject, let me say that the reference I made in my previous post to Monroe's mando as being nothing "special" was not in any way, shape or form intended to be an indictment of the masterful job that Charlie D. did in rebuilding the mando after the incident. By all accounts, the job that Charlie did with the pieces that were entrusted to him was nothing short of miraculous. Charlie, I don't believe that anyone would deny the fact that your patience and luthier skills have earned you a much-deserved place in American Musical History!

Mandodude

BTW - "floyd floar"... that's gotta be just about the coolest screen name going! My complements, my friend!

[John Zimm]

Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly did Mr. Monroe's mandolin get smashed up anyway?

-John.

[Moose]

There was a WOMAN "involved" - so the story goes... - Tell 'm guys... hee.. hee.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Yeah a very MAD WOMAN with a POKER!!!!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bob Sayers]

I think that Mandodude has got it exactly right. #Very few instruments are so associated with one person, a person who over 50 years developed an entirely new style of music on it. #It's an important historical artifact now and should be carefully preserved so that future generations have a tangible connection to the Father of Bluegrass. #Every scratch, ding, and other pattern of wear is by Bill Monroe's own hand--except for the poker damage and Charlie D's repair work, and even those additions are historically significant. #Who would want to risk having some superpicker inadvertantly add his or her own "signature" to it? # Besides, what would they play on it: #A note-for-note rendition of one of Monroe's composition? #Been there, done that. #A flashy updated version of the same? #That'd be almost sacrilegious. #I say leave it alone.

Bob

[John Zimm]

There was a WOMAN "involved" - so the story goes... - Tell 'm guys... hee.. hee..


Yeah a very MAD WOMAN with a POKER!!!!!!

You guys are punks. I guess I'll have to find out on my own. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-John.

[Moose]

Well now.., we ALL know Mr. Monroe is The Father of Bluegrass Music - and an icon of the genre. Me 'n Maverick don't want to besmarch or imply that Father Monroe possibly(!?#) had a "weakness" (i.e. an "eye") for the "fair-er" sex. Certainly not to imply that he was a "womanizer"... hee.. hee.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[evanreilly]

Yeah, and who would have thought that a woman would also attack him with a BIBLE?????

[Coy Wylie]

Buckly,

Get the Monroe bio "Can't You Hear Me Calling." It covers the mando attack pretty well and even has pictures.

[Moose]

Evan... : now you're REALLY stirrin' it up!!! - (see: "He who burns candle at BOTH ends, get caught in middle")... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif I suggest the questioner above get the book(s) mentioned by Willard. AND the one by Tom Ewing - a long time Bluegeass Boy with Bill.

Yeah I think Ole Bill gave her a good smacking to! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #Read the book.. It's gooooood

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Being an historian by trade, I understand the importance of preserving relics of the past for future generations, which usually involves handling said objects very carefully; however, instruments are different. #They need to be played for several reasons. #Mandolins are nice to look at, but I'm sure we all agree that the beautiful sound of the mandolin outweighs their cosmetic value. #

-John.
I am also trained as a historian and I agree with John whole heartedly, but not because I think musical instruments are different than documents or other artifacts. Allow me to elaborate...

We preserve artifacts of historical value so that we can show future generations some aspect of how we lived and what was important to us. Documents are handled gently with white cotton gloves and kept in humidity controlled environments, textiles are likewise preserved, and more robust artifacts are made available for public viewing and/or handling (I'm thinking of a Sherman tank that resided outside a local museum in Boalsburg PA --kids we allowed to climb all over it and in it). We open buildings to the public ie, Monticello, homes designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, etc.

Add to this the fact that musical instruments are a bit like the Roman aqueducts (another set of architectural wonders), in that if they stop being used for thier intended functions their very nature may change and they could deteriorate.

All this to make the point that playing Monroe's Loar is a method of preserving it as a historical artifact. If left at tension w/o being played it will deteriorate, and if it is preserved properly w/o being played for an extended time, the tone may change for the worse and future generations who try to recreate the sound of Bill Monroe will get less than accurate results.

Finally, I recall some news item of a few moths ago that a famous female violinist played a VERY famous violin for the first time in a hunder years or so. I wish I could recall the exact story.

So musical instruments, however old, should be and are preserved. But that preservation must include periodic (at least) exercise of it's intended function.

Best,
Daniel

[Coy Wylie]

FWIW, I just check Amazon and found a new hardbound copy of "Can't You Hear Me Calling" for 4.99! Great price. I've read it but don't own it (it's on the way). I also ordered the Ewing book.

[Moose]

Good!! - I think you will enjoy both. Both well "documented" with much insight into the life and times of The Father of Bluegrass. There's been a recent addition of "Bluegrass stories" - not entirely re: Monroe - but in-general ; the life/anecdotes of a "former" Bluegrass Boy by the name of Butch Robbins - can't recall the title off-my-head...sorry ; your local bookstore should have it listed in Current Books in Print. Enjoy & keep us "posted'. Moose http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[evanreilly]

Doug Hutchens (ex-BGB) recently released a collection of stories about Monroe from, as best I recall, other former BGB. #Called "Howdy, Neighbor, Howdy"??

[Moose]

Evan: Thanks for the "heads-up" - I'll look for this one.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif