An Occasional Banjo Urge!

[Bowzette]

Who plays Irish banjo tuned G,D,A,E? Gold Tone has an inexpensive model 17 frets and scale of 20". My understanding is that some of the older ones are 15 frets ans 17" scale. The 20" scale is the same as an octive mandolin. Seems like a long reach for my stubby fingers. I assume a three inch shorter scale should be easier to play. I would strum open cords or play melody. I have tried a banjo mandolin and did not care for the tone-or lack thereof. But the Gold Tone makes the model 850 with resonator back and tone ring that may improve the tone and sustain. Does anyone have one of these? If i just wait a couple of weeks the "urge" will pass and reason will set in again!

[doanepoole]

I had the same urge for the same model, and it took me a while to hunt one down.

Just my opinion, of course, but my urge was killed soon after I played one.

But I'm just one man, by all means try one out!

[John Flynn]

I recently attended a celtic banjo/mando workshop that was "taught in GDAE." Also my mando instructor recently got a tenor. I have considered it also and tried some out in stores. My uneducated observations are: The similar tuning is a nice "bridge" to playing a different instrument, but it is still a quite different instrument. It seems like it really takes a different technique to play it well. If you just play it like an octave mando, it really doesn't sound all that good. Also, while you can make a cheap mando sound OK with good technique. It seems that cheap tenor banjoes just sound cheap, period.

[Bob DeVellis]

I have a tenor banjo and have had 3 mandolin banjos inthe past. No comparison. The mandolin banjos were good ones (well, 2 of the 3 were) but I just never found them that useful. The tenor banjo, on the other hand, is wonderful. It does take a bit of adapting to move from mandolin to tenor or vice versa. The strings have a very different feel under the pick. But it's no greater a transition than moving from guitar to mandolin, in fact less so because of the tuning similarity. And it is a very different sound that I love in Irish music. I find it tougher to play banjo fast than to play mandolin fast, but that's undoubtedly because I play mandolin much more often.

I can't speak for the Gold Tones, never having played one. I would recommend that you get your hands on one before laying down your money. One other thing about banjos is that the set-up is important and has more user-adjustable parameters than mandolin. You've got the type of strings, the head tension, the tailpiece downforce, the bridge height, whew! But it's all great fun to experiment with and, for the most part, is not dangerous to the instrument. I would think that, with proper set-up, most decent instruments with a tone ring would be capable of at least pretty good sound. A resonator will project more sound forward but that's usually not an issue with banjo in Irish music. If anything, people prefer them to be less rather than more loud. In Irish music, the tenor banjo is going to be a melody instrument, for the most part. So, if you try one out, listen to how single notes (preferably in fairly rapid succession) sound. How it sounds when chords are strummed is probably less important.

[8ch(pl)]

I have a nice Vega 19 fret tenor that ia tuned CGDA. I removed the resonator and flanges due to it's volume and stuffed a sock between the dowel stick and the skin under the bridge to mute it further. I like it, I just wish it were a 17 fret so it would handle GDAE tuning better. The frets are long..... I find that I don't play a lot of the keys that i do for mandolin because of the stretch. Finances keep me with what I have for the time being.

[MandoCowboy]

I got the tenor banjo bug after playing a 19 fret one at a jam. #It was tuned #GDAE. #In my search to purchase one I came across the Irish Tenor with 17 frets and found it much easier for me to play becuase the finger spacing was closer together with the scale length shorter.

In trying to decide which Irish Tenor to buy, I got some good advise that pointed me in the direction of looking for a 1920's vintage Irish Tenor, as this was the golden age of tenor banjo production and the quality was good. #If one could find an instrument in good condition. #This turned out to be harder than I thought, but I did locate a Bacon & Day Irish Tenor made in 1922, in great shape, all original. #Turns out to be a great banjo.

After tinkering around with it for a week or so I took it to a jam that features a fella who can play the tenor banjo quite well. #It sounded great in expert hands, and he really gave out the compliments on it. #He has a 19 fret tenor and after playing it awhile I was really glad to have the 17 fret Irish tenor. #I strung it up with 40/30/20/13 strings which improve the tension feel of the strings.

It's a fun thing to fool around with as an alternative to mando playing. Even though one has to adjust for scale length and feel, the finger patterns are the same and you don't have to re-learn tunes.

[beachbum]

Maybe y'all can help me out here. Several years ago, I found an old Weymann tenor banjo in the original case at a pawn shop that I picked up for $125. Looks like new and seems to be close to original. It has great tone, sound, volume. I have all the specs (model number, year, etc) at home....I'm at work right now. I've never really played it but am hoping to make time once I feel semi established on the mando. What's with the tuning? All of the old books I found say to tune CGDA but I keep hearing about tuning it to GDAE. Do I have to use different strings? Seems GDAE would be easiest for me since I play mando. Help!

[Bowzette]

thanks guys for the responses.

[Bruce Evans]

Yeah, 17 fret banjoes are nice. Here's what I did with a 19 fret tenor that I used to have.

Put on a set of medium gauge strings and capo it at the second fret.

ALAKAZAM! A 17 fret banjo!

I still couldn't play worth a darn though. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[MandoCowboy]

Hi Susan,

Tune your tenor the same as a mando only one octave down (GDAE). If you find the string tension creates a slinky feel and you want a little more feel on the strings go up to a heavier gauge set. Have fun.

MandoCowboy

[withak]

For a 19-fret tenor, string gauges somewhere in the neighborhood of .13-.20-.30-.40 should let you tune down to GDAE while keeping the tension high enough to play.

[mikeyes]

The tenor banjo is a different instrument than the mandolin and if you play one that has a scale over 17" different fingering requirements are needed in my opinion. I say my opinion because it is a matter of intense discussion whether or not to use mandolin (or violin) style fingering (to emulate the fiddle styles) or cello (a finger on each fret, first finger on the second fret, etc.)
The cello style is easier to use on a banjo, but a paradigm shift for mandolin players (that means you have to whack your head if you go from mandolin to banjo.) As a result it may not be easy to make the transition.
A more difficult transition is learning the difference between bluegrass and Irish beats and rhythmns. If you become serious about Irish banjo, you will have to unlearn a lot of what you know and think in another style completely even though the tunes are often the same. I have yet to do this but there are others on this list who have done so successfully.
As for the instument, a 17 fret banjo is not an "Irish Tenor", it is a short scale instrument which evolved into a 19 fret instrument in the twenties. The Irish musicians didn't play the GDAE tuning until about 1950 (acc. to the O'Connor book) and this style is only about 40 years old. I have both 17 and 19 fret instruments and if the cello style fingering is used, both can be played with some speed.
I recommend getting an older instrument. You might take a chance on it having problems, but I can tell you from experience that a $400 banjo from 1929 such as a Vega Little Wonder is a lot better banjo than a Goldtone "Irish Tenor" of the same price. And I like Goldtones. The quality of older name banjos is just better and the price of non-Gibson tenors is still very reasonable. You can get the top quality Vega (such as a Vega Artist or Professional) for around $1000 and have what most tenor players think of as the best you can get. (Depending on taste the same is true of Bacon and Day, Weymann, And Paramount.) Past that all you pay for is fanciness for the most part. Try and find a mandolin for the same price and quality, you can't. (We are talking Apples and Oranges a little here, though.)
Warning: If you decide to go the Irish Tenor way, you will have a lot to explore and it may be habit forming.

Mike Keyes

[Ken Sager]

I have a couple tenors, both 17 fret with ~21" scale length. One tuned CGDA, one lower as GDAE. Love them both, but play the GDAE most. The CGDA I'll most often play capo'd on the 2nd fret to play easily in the key D. One I inherited (20's no name - oh, why didn't grandpa play mandolin? 8*) the other (20's Bruno) I paid $175 for.

Old banjos, especially tenors, have so much character I can't play a new one. Give me an old, worn with play, cranky friction tuner tenor any day. Preferably one with birdseye maple body and neck.

Joy to all,
Ken

[beachbum]

Ok, I looked. Mine is a 19 fret Weymann Model 85 with 23" scale and based on the serial number it was made in 1928. If it's been played it was very little because there is very little fret wear. If I wanted to learn to play it, how would I tune it and do you have any suggestions for instructional material. Thanks!

[Dolamon]

Susan - regarding material to learn Tenor banjo from ... I would definately start out with Mel Bay's Tenor Banjo Method book. While this is actually written for a C instrument, the fingering and approach is much more comprehensive and has a broader scope than any of the Irish method books I've seen. The beauty of his method is to take a pencil and mark all the key studies, a fifth higher. Once you're used to his approach and his chording ideas (which work for single string arpeggios and simply getting your fingers to work on a longer scale)you'll be acquiring a mastery of the fretboard and some of it's tricks.

While most Irish players #stick to single string work, knowing the chords and the fingering concepts are an idea which is lacking in most Irish methods. If you are coming from a Mandolin background, the scales are right there, just longer in reach and a fifth lower. Then you can decide if you want to retune to GDAe or if it might be simpler to capo a CGDa instrument at the second fret and play it as DGAb. There are a lot of choices and after you play a banjo for a short time, you'll find out where the phrase "Stick a sock in it" originated.

(but they are fun to play) Enjoy