Binding on peghead

[Kent Barnes]

On my previous mandolins, I used DUCO, but I don't have any and don't want to have to order some. #Can you buy DUCO at Home Depot? #Would CA glue (superglue) work? #or how about binding "goo"? What do you guys use?

Thanks in advance.

[Bill Snyder]

Lots of stores carry DUCO. Try Walmart. I got some at Dollar General or Family Dollar about two weeks ago.

[Antlurz]

You could use CA. For Duco, try Home Depot, Menards, any well stocked hardware store or well stocked lumberyard as well as where Bill suggested above. It should be relatively easy to find.

Ron

[DavidB]

I have recently bought it at both ACE hardware and Walmart. It was something like only 2 bucks at WalMart.

[Kent Barnes]

Thanks guys! #The last time I looked for DUCO at a local store was several years ago, and I remember not being able to find it. #I've go at Home Depot and a Lowe's about 1/2 a mile away, so I'll try that today.

I use "binding goo" for my body binding, but I was afraid to use it on the peghead since my binding channel is cut freehand with my dremel-router,and the edges aren't perfectly smooth, and those imperfections would really show.

[Jim Hilburn]

Another glue that's seems the same as Duco to me is Bond cement and they have it at Michaels stores but our Lowes has Duco.

[Gibson A5]

I've been using the "Weldon 16", but I always have to order it. Our local Walmart carries the Duco also.
Bill P.

[austin]

CA works great, but works better with a clean and even channel.

[Stanley Cox]

Kent, I have seen Duco at HD and Lowes too.I wonder how close it is to Weld-On 16?
Stanley

[Kent Barnes]

Well, after going to Home Depot, then Lowes, then Hobby Lobby, then Target, I finally found DUCO at Walmart.
Looking back, what I used before was the Weld-On #16 from StewMac.

I assume the DUCO will do just as well??

[Sitka]

IMHO, Weld-On works a whole lot better than Duco. It seems that Weld-On sort of melts the binding into the wood as opposed to Duco which took me a couple times to get a decent glue joint.

Micah

[Jim Hilburn]

I've never used anything other than Duco except for the above mentioned Bond cement. Duco will totally melt celuloid binding. In fact if your channel is uneven the binding will melt into any gaps giving a distorted look.
When the channel is very clean and smooth I'd recommend a good amount of glue left in contact with the binding for 15-30 seconds. Then you want to wipe all excess and squeeze away and tape it in place. This will soften the binding but getting rid of the excess before taping will keep any deformation from taking place.
If you have some gap issues, it might be best to go for a more dry joint so the binding can't deform into the gaps. A good amount of glue but wipe the excess off immediately.

[Jim Hilburn]

One more thing.
I've bought Duco in the plastic bottles instead of tubes before and stored it for some time. When I got to it, the bottle was about half full and very thick. Filling it with acetone and stirring brought it back to the right consistancy.

[Frank Ford]

If you haven't tried LMI's "FCA" binding adhesive, I suggest you do. #

I found it so far superior in workability that I imeeeediately abandoned those hobby cements!

[Rick Turner]

Wow, Frank, my employees hated that new stuff! Of course the sample came in the most inconvenient form...a bottle with no dispenser. I'll try it myself decanted into something more appropriate for dispensing.

Suggestion...with spruce or cedar, shellac the channel before you use CA if you go that route. That's to prevent too much CA glue seepage into the wood which can affect how the CA impregnated part of the wood accepts stain.

[dstretch]

I recently was at a luthier friends shop in Alexandria, MN. We were talking about binding glue, and he showed me a glue that he was using. He said he really liked it and has had no trouble's with it yet. It is called RooGlue. Here is a picture of what he uses. Has anyone else tried this glue?

Danny Smith

[Dick Hutchings]

If you haven't tried LMI's "FCA" binding adhesive, I suggest you do. #

I found it so far superior in workability that I imeeeediately abandoned those hobby cements!
What is the technique for using it. I imagine you could do 6" sections, just hold the binding in place for a few seconds and move on. Would that work?

[mandolooter]

Roo glue is used all the time for glueing melamine and other slick/shiny substances together...I use it all the time building cabinets.

[amowry]

I always use CA for binding pegheads, but you can't have any gaps, because it won't fill them (unless you use the black stuff from Stew-Mac, but I haven't had good luck with that). I hold the binding in place, wick in the thin CA, and hold it for a few seconds. That way there's no need for clamps or taping, and you can move onto the next piece quickly.

[Dick Hutchings]

I always use CA for binding pegheads, but you can't have any gaps, because it won't fill them (unless you use the black stuff from Stew-Mac, but I haven't had good luck with that). I hold the binding in place, wick in the thin CA, and hold it for a few seconds. That way there's no need for clamps or taping, and you can move onto the next piece quickly.
When you say "wick in", do you mean you have the binding sitting in the ledge loose and you squeeze it tight after applying glue? I can't imagine it wicking in. I guess I'll have to experiment with wicking. I wish I could see a video of you doing this. Got one?? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ErikAitch]

Richard,

Thin CA will not fill a gap, but it will run along a tight fitting joint for quite a distance.

[Mario Proulx]

It will wick-in readily. Medium or thin CA. I use the cheap stuff from the hardware store, and like it better than the expensive Hot Stuff bottles. The wood pulls-in the moist CA, just like it would water. A little goes a long way, too. I'll tape the bindings in place, then place a drop of CA in between the tape strips, then pull the strips off about 10 minutes later, and run the CA along all edges. advantage is that we fit the bindings dry this way, ad can take all the time we want to make them fit right. Just a wee bit of CA... I've shared this method a few times, only to have some people come back with "it ruined my guitar!", and they show a photo of the interior covered in glue, where it ran all over the place! <sigh> A little bit of CA, I said! Just a bit... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Dale Ludewig]

Mario is right- just a little of the thin stuff. And it will wick into places you can't imagine nor want to think about. I usually use CA on the overlay and on pickguards. There's no reason that I can imagine for ever wanting to take the binding off those parts. By the way, it's also very handy if you've got formica coming up off the edge of a countertop. Squeeze in a bit and quickly follow with masking tape. Some CA solvent is really handy for the squeeze out. And when you use the stuff, wear safety glasses. I once had an employee get some in his eye. Not good. But that was better than what they told me at the eye clinic: They'd seen a guy squeeze a big bottle and it burst and glued his eyelids together. They had to cut them apart with a razor blade. Very carefully. Makes you want to cross your legs like 3 times at once, doesn't it?

[buddyellis]

My last F5 I used CA totally (on the binding), and can say it is MUCH easier to deal with than duco or the alternatives, IMO, especially in the scroll area. I don't know why people bother with anything else. I just wish I'd heard the shellac suggestion first, as I learned the hard way that you need to seal end grain. (Easily covered up with stain, but just the same)

[Darryl Wolfe]

I find it quite interesting that what one person swears by doesn't seem to work for another. #

Frank F has a good comment because Duco seems to no longer be what it used to be.

I would like to use CA for binding on pickguards and such, but my experience has been poor. #Go figure.

By the same token, I do use CA on pickguard blocks and strips. #An all of a sudden I'm having problems with warpage and glue not wanting to "set".

This is since my thread on preserving CA and I'm using CA I bought 3 weeks ago. #Maybe I need to buy it somewhere else

[Dick Hutchings]

My last F5 I used CA totally (on the binding), and can say it is MUCH easier to deal with than duco or the alternatives, IMO, especially in the scroll area. #I don't know why people bother with anything else. #I just wish I'd heard the shellac suggestion first, as I learned the hard way that you need to seal end grain. (Easily covered up with stain, but just the same)
Are you saying that CA needs to have a coat of shellac to adhere to at the endgrain?

[Kent Barnes]

Wow! All this because I forgot to order a tube of Weld-On with my last StewMac order, and was looking for an alternative.
For what it's worth, I found DUCO at Walmart ($0.99 a tube!!) and it seems to have worked great! I was considering CA glue because I use it to glue the binding on my fretboards.

[buddyellis]

Are you saying that CA needs to have a coat of shellac to adhere to at the endgrain?
No, but rather, the end grain needs sealing so the CA won't leach into it (mostly on the spruce) causing issues with staining later.

[Dick Hutchings]

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. I think I'm done hijacking now.

[billhay4]

Sorry if this is a hijack, but I wanted to ask Frank Ford about the use of the LMI adhesive.
I tried the FCA LMI adhesive and found it very unsatisfactory. It didn't hold well at all. I used it on ABS binding which was what it was recommended for, I think. I could pull the binding off by hand with no resistence or tearing of either wood or binding.
How did you apply it to get it work well?
Thanks,
Bill Hay

[dunwell]

Mario, I never tried the CA because of joints. One "good thing" about Duco and similar melt-it glues is that the joints and point all melt together and don't leave a line, or at least when it works right they don't leave a line. I would think that with the CA and wicking it in there would be a noticable line at each joint. Yes? Does anyone other than annal me care? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Alan D.

[Mario Proulx]

RE: joints. I hit them with a cotton swab soaked in acetone after gluing, and they melt right into one another. Acetone is the solvent for CA glue, also, so even if CA got into the joint, all is taken care of...

[Dale Ludewig]

Gosh, I hate to keep agreeing with Mario. But I do. CA is great (for me) for gluing the binding to the wood, but when you get to the mitre, there is no substitute if you're using celluloid for acetone. I'll run CA right up to the joint/ corner and then hit it with acetone on either a swab or small brush, and then hit it with a little more CA right there, hold it with my fingers and hope they don't get glued to the binding. It's a great combination.
Hey, Mario- are you warming up up there?

[Mario Proulx]

you warming up up there?

We had a brief reprieve from the cold, but we're back to the cool side again. -17c(one degree F) as I type...

[amowry]

I pretty much do it the way that Mario and Dale describe, only I use binding "goop" instead of straight acetone at the miters to give me a little more working time. I'll weld the miter with that stuff, continue to hold the binding in place, and wick in the thin CA. I bind the peghead overlays before they're on the peghead, so I don't have to worry about CA getting in the maple and preventing it from taking stain. On the ebony it doesn't matter

I use the cheap CA from a local hobby shop. I've bought some of the expensive stuff a few times, but it seems the same, and it all either thickens up or stops curing before I can use a whole bottle, so I end up buying a new bottle every few months.

[Dick Hutchings]

I know this is an old thread but I'm at this point again. I just finished binding the top and back of one of my F5s I'm working on. I love using CA to put these on but I did have one problem that needs to be repaired. I put the CA on while I'm holding the binding in place which for the most part works great but, in one place I got the binding perfect on from the top view but when I looked at it from the side it was sticking out at the bottom. I know I had a good fit before I glued it so I think I was holding too much pressure on the corner of the binding and it just kicked out while I was applying the CA. I need to fix it because I'm using WBW and I can just see a hint of the black line sticking out. I know after scraping and final sanding it's going show. I have some CA solvent that I tested on a scrap glue up and it seemed to dissolve the glue without damaging the celluloid binding to my surprise. So, I'm going to try to get some under the binding and try to push it into the ledge. What do you think?

[Martian]

Another glue that is readily available and does a good job is called sigment. (Hobby store product, sorry)

[Dick Hutchings]

I guess I should have started a new thread as this has nothing to do with todays question. I like the CA method I just need to get better at it and fix one area where it didn't work so well.

Another glue that is readily available and does a good job is called sigment. (Hobby store product, sorry)

[Geoff B]

if you are scraping through the white, then I'd replace that piece and get another one in there. The super-glue solvent I have dissolves celluloid and plastic, so I'd be careful with it around the other pieces you have in place. If it's thin enough that the black is starting to show, then it'll show even if you can push it back in.
Good luck!

[Dick Hutchings]

It is still full size right now. I don't intend to scrape until I somehow get it back in place. From my test piece this morning I was able to release the CA without damaging the binding. As I said, I was very surprised. Will heat soften CA before melting the binding? If I can just soften it enough to push the bottom of the binding in I'll be alright. I won't be taking this piece off except as a last resort. The one drawback to CA is it really holds the binding on good. Ask me how I know?:whistling:

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

How do you know?

[Geoff B]

Richard you may as well just try it, if you haven't yet. Worst case scenario is you loosen the glue, but soften the binding and indent it when pushing into place. then you just pull it. I had misread the first post, smart to check before you start scraping!
Definitely let us know how it works out!

[Dick Hutchings]

So I tried it this morning. It didn't work. Took the binding off to start over. Only trouble is I'm not 100% sure I can avoid this again. I thought I had everything right. I'm going to make the ledge slightly bigger in both directions before I start again and aim for sanding the wood up to the binding. I've got plenty of wood.