Completely new to mandolins...a little guidance.

[Lord Of The Flies]

I'm a longtime violin player (classical violin, since the tender age of 3 for the last 15 years of my life...) so I thought mandolin would be a great instrument to pick up now...except I know next to nothing about mandolins. Helps that my guitarist friends have been pushing me to buy one for a while. Doesn't help that they know nothing either. I've read through the f-style/a-style debate, but I don't know anything about brands, etc.

I'd like a fairly decent mandolin (not a complete beginner one, that is) but...yeah, don't know what I'm looking for. Also, do you think it'll be difficult for me to pick up, given I have violin experience? Never played a chord-based instrument before (unless piano counts).

[Soupy1957]

I'm only a "newbie" on the mando, (about a year at this point) and there are others in here who can and will give you the guidance you seek Grasshopper, but for what it's worth:

A) There are lots of mandos in the $700.00 to $1,000.00 range that would be just fine for a "starter" without being too cheap, and would give you a fair running start. (I'll throw out a few names of them, but I'm sure I'll miss some favorite of others, and they'll add theirs)....

Morgan Monroe
Washburn
Epiphone
Michael Kelly
Breedlove
Weber
Gibson
Kentucky

and many more (in no preferencial order mind you).

As for the learning curve, I've been wondering how hard it would be to do the reverse....to go to "fiddle" with no frets and a bow.

-Soupy1957

[Martin Jonas]

Also, do you think it'll be difficult for me to pick up, given I have violin experience? Never played a chord-based instrument before (unless piano counts).
But the mandolin doesn't need to be chord-based -- one of the great things about the instrument is that it works just fine as either a melodic lead instrument or a chordal accompaniment instrument.

In my experience, fiddlers and guitarists both find it very easy to pick up the mandolin and play music (although not necessarily play mandolin music), but it's fascinating to see them approaching it completely differently on their first try. #Fiddlers treat it as a plucked violin and are thrilled by the fact that they can just finger their favourite tunes exactly as they know them. #Guitarists, on the other hand, tend to ask for a few standard chord shapes and then they're off strumming away. #Neither approach is entirely satisfactory in the long term, as you need to be open to accepting the mandolin's own unique voice rather than treating it as some sort of inferior version of a different instrument, but it's very encouraging for new learners to be able to make decent music on the first try. If you have guitarist friends, make sure you don't use their picks: most guitarists I know use picks that are far too thin for a good tone on mandolin.

As for which mandolin, this depends a lot on the amount of money you want to pay and the genre you want to play in. #For bluegrass, go for the best solid wood A-style archtop you can afford. #For all other genres, look for a good luthier-made flattop (second-hand Mid-Missouri, Flatiron, or new Arches, Fylde, Garrison, Davidson, Moon etc), which tend to give you more bang-for-the-buck than a luthier-made archtop. #If you're specifically interested in classical music, you may also want to consider a bowlback (although a flattop works just fine, too).

If I read your post correctly, you're 18. In which case, your budget is probably somewhat limited. The Kentucky KM-380s is a decent Asian-made solid-wood carved archtop instrument, and probably better than anything cheaper and cheaper than anything better. Be sure you buy it from somewhere who know how to do a good setup or take it to a luthier for setup. There's nothing more frustrating than to learn on a poorly setup instrument.

Martin

[mythicfish]

Find someome who's played the mandolin as long as you've been playing the violin ... otherwise you could get a lot of bogus advice. This is the internet ... where you never know the valdity of the information.

Curt

[Celtic Saguaro]

As a violinist, the mandolin should be very easy for you. A mandolin is no more and no less chord based than a violin. #You're probably well aware of double stops. They work exactly the same on the mandolin. Full three and four-string chords are really just an expansion on the same principles. Some violin players beginning the mandolin have expressed here some concern about using a flat pick instead of the bow. #That's not tough to learn either.

[mrmando]

If you're like me, you'll want a mandolin with a "radiused" (curved) fretboard, since that is what you're accustomed to. The curve on a mandolin fretboard isn't as radical as a violin's fingerboard, but you'll probably find it easier than playing on a flat board.

[testore]

I too was trying to learn the violin at a young age. I became a violin maker instead. That's a good thing for anyone who may have heard me play the violin. BUT I took up the mandolin seriously about 15 years ago(playing and building). It's a lot easier to play. You'll find that the positions that you learned to play the violin will come in handy on the mando. Most mandolin players don't use them the way violinists do.If you continue to think like a violinist in your left hand it will help to some degree. Also, just like in the violin world,you get what you pay for. Don't buy an ultra cheap mandolin just to get by. If you're a good violin player then the limitations of a very cheap manolin will become apparent VERY soon and will frustrate you to death.Buy a decent one and play it a lot.It's a great instrument. Have fun

[Lord Of The Flies]

Hmmm...this topic's got some better advice than I've gotten from mmy guitarist friends, that's for sure. My budget is a little tight, but I've saved up for a new instrument for a few years now and my parents are also willing to spend a little bit, so anything below $1000 or around there is probably what I'm looking at. I'll look into some of the brands you guys have mentioned so far...thanks!

[gnelson651]

Go Eastman...young man.

Eastman Mandolin that is. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Probably the best bang for the buck especially for the pacrims. Handmade, nice woods, cast tailpiece. Good sounding for the money.

I would recommend the 505 for the A-style or if you can swing it the 515 F-style. Try either The Mandolin Store (http://www.themandolinstore.com/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=51) #or Gianna Violins. (http://www.giannaviolins.com/esmando/MandoInventory.html). Steve Perry at Gianna Violins can voodoo your Eastman for an additional $100 if you purchase it from him. From what I understand, a mando voodoo will do wonders for the sound.

[DryBones]

what kind of music will you be playing? without knowing that then I would suggest you look into the 3 major types of mandolins(F holes,Oval holes and Flat-tops) and there strong points/shortcomings before buying anything, or you will end up like me...with one of each! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lord Of The Flies]

I don't really have a particular type of music I want to learn, really...just whatever I happen to find that pleases my ear. Is Nickel Creek an accepted band by this board?

[Lord Of The Flies]

By the way, this is the one I've had someone recommend me: http://www.themandolinstore.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=7728

I'm not saying I want to buy that one, but using that one as a starting ground, what should I be looking for? What should I be avoiding?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Caleb]

You're not asking too many questions. I had over 100 posts before I ever got my first mandolin. Ask away...this is the best forum that you'll find IMO.

BTW, what's the story with your username?

[Lord Of The Flies]

It's the name of a book, no particular reason.

Hey, what's the average thickness of mandolin picks? My friend wants to know (he plays the guitar).

[mandroid]

Pix,
like extra heavy fender, gypsy jazz guitar, 2mm is common, YMMV ...
firehose of discussion in archives - equipment..

[pjlama]

I am pretty new after years of playing another instrument and I have figured a few things out. Please take my opionions as subjective but here goes; You'll get the most for your money with an A. If you buy used you're money will go even further. The absolute best deals on used mando's is right here in the Cafe classifieds, these guys flip mandolins like a short order cook at iHop. If the budget permits try and go with the standard domestic stuff; Gibson, Weber, Collings, etc... These will hold a bit better and are nice enough that you probably will be inclined to hold it for longer. If there is a decent acoustic store near you visit often and try different instruments. Picks do make a huge difference just like a bow but much cheaper. See what works for you but generally heavy is part of the equation. I started on a POS a year ago with a thin guitar pick .60 and still had fun so I am sure you'll do fine with whatever you choose. Just listen to Bill as many hours as you practice each day and have fun!

[Martin Jonas]

For $1000, you will be able to get something pretty decent. It's a large enough chunk of money that you will want to find a place where you can try them in person, ideally together with someone who knows a bit about mandolins. Still, as a violinist you will recognise tone quality and good playability when you spot it.

The best value is in flattops. A Mid-Missouri is a great first instrument, very plain-looking but great tone and workmanship,, and will be only around half your budget. A slight problem is that the company recently went out of business (reasons too complicated to go into here) and reinvented itself under the name "Big Muddy Mandolins". Same product range, same quality as far as we've heard so far, but because of the brief hiatus the distribution channels are a bit unclear at the moment. There are plenty of Mid-Missouris out there second-hand, or old stock still being sold as new, or else you may be able to find a brand new Big Muddy. It's a safe bet for folk, Celtic, jazz, classical, latin, etc. It's not so suitable for bluegrass, where a different tone is the norm.

There are other good flattops, too, although they are rarer in the US: Weber, Garrison, Fylde, Arches, Moon, Davidson are all good bets.

Carved (archtop) mandolins come with two different types of soundholes (oval or f-holes) and in two different body shapes (A or F). That often confuses beginners, as the "F" when it refers to bodyshape has nothing at all to do with the f-hole type of soundhole. Bodyshape has little or nothing to do with tone, but as the plainer A shape is much easier to make, the unanimous advice for somebody in your price range is to go for an A-style over an F-style -- you get much more mandolin for the money. The choice of soundhole does make a big difference to tone: f-holes are more focussed-sounding and are standard in bluegrass, oval holes are more open and full sounding and arguably more versatile (and are even sometimes used in bluegrass). Entirely personal preference. As the mandolin scene, at least in the US, is dominated by bluegrass, f-hole instruments are much more widely available than oval holes, although that seems to shift gradually.

Again, this is personal preference. One consideration for you may be that flattop mandolins and (to a lesser degree) oval hole archtops are often described as having a "guitar-like" tone. I don't fully agree with that, but if your intention is mainly to play with your guitarist friends, an f-hole archtop will probably stand out better against them.

For either oval hole or f-hole archtops, you can go with the entry-level US-made mandolins, which are fine instruments and are either just inside your budget or just outside (but often available below $1000 second-hand). Names to consider are Breedlove, Weber, the Gibson A9 (if you're lucky second-hand) and a number of small niche builders such as Glenn.

Alternatively, you can go with the upper end of the Asian-made instruments. Eastman is the name that has made most impact in this field in the last couple of years, and you will find vociferous pro and anti opinions about them on the Cafe. I've only played a couple, and they seem decent instruments. With all of the Asian instruments, you need to shop around, as they are invariably traded way below their list prices, and you need to consider carefully to what extent you're paying for visuals or for musical merit.

The most mojo in your price range would be a vintage instrument: old Gibson oval-hole A-styles are some of the most revered instruments and as vast numbers were made, you can often find one in good condition for under $1000. Even cheaper (because their tonality is different from what people are used to these days) are old Martin flattops. With vintage instruments, it is imperative that you try them as there are as many dogs as hits, and you need to have somebody with you who knows a bit about them. Best left for later, perhaps.

Finally, the most radically non-traditional option would be to go for something like an Ovation: plastic-backed electro-acoustic. If you want to plug in occasionally and play rock, jazz or blues, this may be just the ticket.

All ver confusing, I know, especially if you don't have any fixed preferences yet. I will therefore come down firmly on one recommendation: get a Mid-Missouri to learn on. Once you know the basics, you may decide it's exactly what you need, or you may decide to change to any of the other options above. If so, selling the Mid-Mo again for around what you paid shouldn't be a problem.

Concerning picks, many bluegrassers use extra-thick ones (anywhere between 1.5mm and 3mm), but in other genres the most common gauges are around 1mm. This is definitely an area where you will need to experiment extensively to find what suits you. Luckily, this is much cheaper than experimenting with different mandolins.

Martin

[Celtic Saguaro]

The others have covered quite a bit, but I ought to add; that Epiphone is a beginner mandolin of the sort you said you wanted to avoid.

I really would not recommend a Mid-Mo if you are interested in bluegrass. A Mid-Mo is fine for what they are. For old-time, Celtic or even jazz they would be great. But they are not going to cut through and be heard in a bluegrass band. Something with an arched top, arched back and f holes is really your best bet.

Thin picks tend to make mandolins sound tinny. So most of us use heavy picks, as folks above have said, sometimes very heavy picks.

[fwoompf]

If I were you I might look through the classifieds section, see if there's anything in your area/price range and post it here to get feedback.

Keep an eye out for used Breedloves, Eastmans in the 800+ range (model #, not price), good deals on Gibson A9s, Weber A models...

[8ch(pl)]

Recent classifieds on this site have a Gibson A9 and a Weber Absaroka. Both better than average starters.

[fwoompf]

Like Glen said, there's 3 Absaroka's in there right now, one is a little funny looking (not to mention out of your price range) but another is $950...might be worth a look!

[testore]

I have a tortoiseshell pick that is 1.68mm thick and worth every penny.

[Martin Jonas]

Looking through the classifieds is a great way of rekindling MAS -- good thing I'm in the UK and don't want to deal with the hassle of international shipping and customs charges! There are also two Flatiron As and a Glenn A for under $1000, so lots of wonderful instruments available within the budget.

Martin

[Greg H.]

As you've probably already figured out you'll get almost as many different suggestions as there are people responding. Your best bet would be to find some place where you can try some out (what part of SoCal are you in? there are a number of decent shops in SoCal so there may be a good one within easy drive). Better yet, take someone along who can play (if you don't know anyone who plays mandolin take a guitar player along) so you can hear it from the front (it can sound quite differently from that front than it does from behind).

I guess where I'm going with this is the best mandolin for you is the one you like the sound and feel of best. F style mandolins (with the scroll and points) are far more labor intensive so you are likely to get a much better mandolin for the money with an A style. Beyond that, however, your best approach is to try out as many as you can and look for the one that feels/sounds right. This is even more important as you haven't decided what style/type of music you want to play (though as you mention Nickel Creek, Chris Thile plays an archtop with F holes).

[Lord Of The Flies]

I live in Los Angeles, have anywhere to recommend there? My friend (yeah, a guitar player) and I located a place called Boulevard Music nearby which has a bunch of mandolins for sale, we were going to swing by sometime this week.

[Brad Weiss]

Go to McCabes in Santa Monica and check out their selection. Breedloves, maybe an Eastman, or two, and quite a few Collings- probably more than you want to pay, but you'll get a good idea of what some good mandolins sound like. They also tend to have a vintage instrument or two available- played some fine Gibsons from the teens and twenties there.

Have fun! (and use a thick pick! 1.14-1.5 at least)

[Greg H.]

There's also Buffalo Bros. (http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/) in Carlsbad (shouldn't be more than a couple of hours--depending on traffic of course away). They usually have a fairly good selection of mandolins running from Michael Kellys and Eastmans running to some fairly high end Collings.

The main thing now is take your time and enjoy yourself.