A bit outside the box

[Antlurz]

I thought it might be fun to put some ideas together, since I abhor the idea of owning cookie cutter posessions of about any kind..

I got some really nice Bear Claw Sitka and Quilted Big Leaf from Spruce a year ago next month, and have very slowly been putting some ideas together.

Through the whole thing, except for the Sitka, I've tried every thing I could think of to enhance a deep sound. I wanted an F5 neck, but didn't want to position the bridge foreward, so it has a 14 7/8" scale to retain the F4 bridge position. It's a slightly offset cross brace, and graduated a bit differently from the bass to treble sides of the soundboard.

Been wanting for a long time to put the peghead scroll in the class as the body scroll, so this one rises above the overlay and has a center peak, just like it's big brother on the body does.

I wanted something a bit different on the F'board markers and tailpiece too, so what you see is what I got.

The scroll height is exxagerated a bit as well.

Haven't decided just yet what I'll do for the peghead ornamentration, other than it will include a dark veneer on the back.

Probably will finish it in some sort of honey blonde.

Ron

[Antlurz]

From the other end...

[Antlurz]

A bit out of the ordinary...

[Antlurz]

The quilt.

[Bill Snyder]

Very creative Ron, and I mean that in a good way. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Antlurz]

The raised scroll.

Sorry bout the quality of these pictures.

Need to go back to photo school.

Ron

[John Hill]

Like the rattlesnake tail going from the neck to the backplate. How did you manage that (for us non-builder types)? Any construction pics?

[Antlurz]

Bill...

Bending those quilt ribs was a real learning experience. Thought I was gonna run out of material before I got the pieces bent. Finally ended up bending them dead cold and wet. Took three days to keep from shattering it.

Ron

[Antlurz]

How did you manage that (for us non-builder types)? Any construction pics?
I only took one picture of the bracing somewhere. As far as the snakes tail, I just cut away everything that didn't look like a mandolin back with a snake tail on it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It's just part of the carved back.

Ron

[Mark Franzke]

That is really cool. Nice work. How do the strings attach to the tailpiece?
mark

[Bill Snyder]

Looks like a Gibson style tailpiece with an ebony cover from here. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[mandolooter]

I like it! The nut is really cool, how about a close up? Do the strings ride on the top part too? Dreadful snakes...

[newbreedbrian]

very cool. i like that alot

[Antlurz]

Yup. The tailpiece is a Gibson style with a dummied up chunk of ebony on top. Ran into some real hairpuller problems figuring out how to pull that off. One thing was, I had to grind off the tangs of the frets and CA them to the board. If I had cut into it there wouldn't have been any strength left and it would have broke really easy. It's the tail end of the fret board blank and the tail piece sets up inside a hollowed out spot. The "nut".. I prefer calling it a string width locator, because that is all it really does, is a piece of good old Iowa Black Angus leg bone That I stained with some tea water.. I found out that gold fretwire is not at all that hard to work with, even as hard as it is, and should look good with the Gold Grovers that will go on it.

Here's a bit better angle to see the "nut" from.

Ron

[Antlurz]

I guess it really doesn't show up better. I'll have to take some more pictures of it later. Don't know yet exactly what I'll do for the headstock inlay. I'm going to veneer the back of the peghead too.

Ron

[Sitka]

Kinda defeats the purpose of a rattler inside the mando. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Antlurz]

Yup. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Don't know if I have any more rattles laying around, so in case not, this way I'm covered. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Ron

[Antlurz]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Just noticed that in that last picture I posted, all the fretboard markers look like they are crooked and misshaped. I can assure you they aren't. Must have something to do with when I reduced the pictures. Dubble Duh. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Ron

[Jim Garber]

Ron:
Definitely an interesting take on the std look of an F4. What is that between the string width locater (SWL) and the truss rod routing?

Actually an SWL would be more applicable if you were using a zero fret since the nut affects the height as well as the string placement.

Jim

[Bill Snyder]

Take a second look Jim. It appears he HAS a zero fret.

[JEStanek]

Looks great, Ron. That's definitely taking inspiration form something and making it your own. I can't wait to see it finished.

Jamie

[Jim Garber]

Take a second look Jim. It appears he HAS a zero fret.
Oh, yes, Bill, you are correct. Usually the zero fret is set up pretty close to the nut. Most are within, say, 1/8 inch and I have a Italian mandolin with the zero fret right up against the nut.

Ron, any reason to have the zero fret so far from the nut?

Jim

[Antlurz]

Jim..

Not particularly, other than it figured in as far as keeping the bridge back closer to the traditional F4 position. Lots of folks feel the difference in bridge location is a big contribitor to the F4/F5 sound differences, so I just went with those impressions.

Ron

[mandroid]

That extra inch should make for a nice "F" 'mando' : ie in F,C,G,D tuning.
Looks good in the 'white', hope to see the finished product pictures, soon.

[markishandsome]

I like a little headroom behind the zero fret to "loosen up" the first fret for legatto (sp?).

[Antlurz]

Finally!

I strung it up in the white a couple of weeks back with some light strings and was rewarded with pretty close to what I'd had in mind to begin with but not quite. All in all, I thought I was pretty happy with it, but would have liked a bit darker sound. Still, it was very responsive, lots of sustain, well balanced all the way across and up and down the board. Decided right off I could happily live with it.

Earlier, I had quite a bit more distance above the zero fret, and that really tended to give me a false sense of where I was if I happened to look at what I was doing. Simple enough. Cut some off.

When I went to string it up again, I went to heavier strings and I absolutely couldn't believe the total transformation of what it does. loud, balanced, tons of sustain, a kind of sharp pop when picked. I'da never guessed the difference in strings could have made such a radical difference in it.

Sucka gots major mojo now. I couldn't have asked for more, and it appears the little tweaks all worked out like I'd planned.

I can live with the color too, and the way I did the nut and truss cover in bone with some stain, I decided against any more ornamentation on the peghead.

Took these with flash and it totally washed out the color in the logo. Bummer.

Ron

[Antlurz]

up front....

[Antlurz]

...and around back.

[Dfyngravity]

unreal.....can we get a close up of the nut and headstock?

[Narayan Kersak]

Maybe I'm weird but that is one sweet looking axe.

[sgarrity]

Very very cool.........how does it play?

[mandopete]

Totally unique - how about a shot of the nut too.

[Antlurz]

I thought the first picture of the "nut" was pretty explanatory. What is it you are wanting to see more of? It's two piece. The "leaf" part is chiseled at an angle and slides into a groove on the bottom edge of the string spacer part to keep it from moving around. On the first pictures I posted, you can see it without the truss cover part installed.

I've got the strange feeling my F5 may gather some dust what with the way this thing and me fit together so far....

Before it's all said and done, I may end up with ebony buttons on the tuners.

Ron

[first string]

An very interesting instrument in my opinion. I absolutely love the color. Very violinish. And I'm intrigued by your idea of elongating the scale so as to keep the bridge in the same position. It seems like a great compromise. If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to use X bracing (you did say you used X didn't you?) instead of the transverse brace? Where your reasons structural, or do you prefer that sound?

Thanks.

[Antlurz]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to use X bracing (you did say you used X didn't you?) instead of the transverse brace? Where your reasons structural, or do you prefer that sound?
I just felt better about the structural aspects of the cross brace. That and offseting it to one side hopefully influenced the sound like the offset tonebars supposedly do in the typical F5.

Did it help? Dunno. All I know for sure is I like the way the sound is developing.

Now, all I need to do is get comfortable with the longer scale.

Ron

[first string]

Thanks for that. I've been doing a lot of research on ovals of late...As I said I think your idea of elevating the fretboard, but keeping the bridge in place by using a longer scale, is a great one (it makes so much sense that I'm sort of amazed that more people haven't thought of it before). I've been pondering if there is some way to get a bit of the power of the F5 without giving up the tubby sustain of the F4. I haven't heard a hybrid yet that had exactly what I have in mind. I wonder if your concept isn't the way to get there. I asked about the bracing, because I think I prefer the transverse (I can't say for certain because F4s are so rare that I've never played one of each back to back. In fact I've never seen two in the same room before.) but I sort of think you were right to use X. I'm no builder, but it seems that with a long scale and an elevated board, it would be structurally safer to have something running directly under the bridge. Food for thought.

[GTG]

Dude, that is beautiful. I thought the snake rattle was a spinal column at first! It kind of worked, being close to the neck and all.