Flat top vs. carved top

[Narayan Kersak]

Ok. I've searched the site for information on this, and I'm sure it's on here, but every keyword search combination turned up nothing...and I've tried many different times So... Can some one clarify the sound difference between a carved arch top mandolin and a flat top? I've heard a lot of different opinions on this. I've got an Alvarez F model and have never had the opportunity to play a flat top, but I play irish music mainly and hear that a flat top may be more in line with my preferred genre. What would be the major sonic differences if I were to play a flat top? Your help is appreciated. Thanks.

[JEStanek]

While I can't give you a a good written description the Folk of the Wood video samplers (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2518.htm) will let you hear the differences between spruce / maple f or oval hole arch top mandos and flat tops of a variety of top/back woods. Listen to the mid - mo's for flat top sounds and everything else for everything else.

I'm sure someone with a better sonic palate than me will chime in but the web site may be an ok place to start.

Jamie

[cooper4205]

i talke to will parsons about the differnces in sound between the two, he seemed to think that the flat-tops mandolins were ideal for tone production (like sweetness of tone), but that the carved tops went alot farther as far as volume and strength go. this is very watered-down and paraphrased version of what he told me as it was a few months ago, i can't remember all the reasons that he told me, but that was the gist of it.

[Bruce Clausen]

In general the flat top instruments will have a more diffuse sound, the carved will be punchier, more focused. When I go from one to the other, the carved top sounds really pinched and nasal after the more open sound of the flat top; but the flat top can sound thin and weak after the carved. I prefer the flat top for solo playing, where its sustain and clarity of tone really come through. But in a band situation the carved cuts through the mix better.

--BC

[labraid]

I think clarity of tone is not the best way to describe a flat-top. At least, not any flat-top that is characteristic of it's genre.

Flat-top = complex tone, full of overtones, not necessarily sweet in the basses, but very interesting and varied to the ear. Trebles can be very clear and sweet. You're in for tons of harmonics that resonate from the body itself. Pick a flattie and you often get a deep *thunk*.

Carved-top = clarity. Bell like tones that are clear and "single". Strum the four courses and you'll hear four individual notes ringing. It punches, and sometimes pierces. The notes are very strong, and often loud, especially with f-holed instruments. Oval holed carved tops are a bit closer to the flat-tops' sound (they are not so loud, but the tone is more complex than the f's...). *ting*

[Narayan Kersak]

Ok. I listened to those videos mentioned at Folk of the Wood and the flat top seems to be more open and the notes seem to float, although they do sound a bit more metallic. The carved top seems like the notes are muted in comparison...maybe that is the nasal sound mentioned? The flat top sounds a bit like an electric guitar with with the pickup in the neck position on...just a comparison of tone.

[Narayan Kersak]

Is there anyway to get a cross between the two? I mean, I love the sound of both the flat and carved top. I like the ringing sustain and clarity of the flat top, yet I like the less metallic sound of the carved top. Any ideas? Do they make "slightly" arched tops?

[JEStanek]

Brian Dean makes a "weebit" arched top mandolin. www.bfolk.com

Jamie

[Bob A]

For my money, you get the best of both worlds with a L&H carved=top mandolin. Style A is of course the fanciest, but B & C sound about the same as the A, and are cheaper.
An additional advantage is you get your choice of scale length; the early L&H instruments were long scale, about 14" like GIbson. Later they went to 13", like bowlbacks.

You get the typical bowlback/flat-top treble, which is much more pleasantly bell-like than Gibson, but you don't get the heavy guitar-like Gibson bass. If I gad to have just one mandolin, I suspect a L&H would be the way to go.

[arbarnhart]

Brian Dean makes a "weebit" arched top mandolin. #www.bfolk.com

Jamie
IIRC, there was some discussion about this once and it turns out that all flat tops have a "wee bit" to allow for temperature/humidity changes. If it were dead flat, then if it contracted just a tiny bit it would crack.

[Narayan Kersak]

So is the Brian Dean "weebit" arch top a "weebit" more arch topped than say a normal flat top that already has a "weebit" arch top to compensate for humidity and prevent cracking?

[MikeB]

I'd like to hear how the 'cantilevered' tops compare with both flat tops and arched tops. I've only had the pleasure to play a couple, including my currently crippled Vega cylinder back. At least with this Vega, I hear something altogether different than either of the other two. This, of course, only makes the question more complicated, rather than clearer or simpler. I'm particularly good at that... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[labraid]

Ralian, the Weebit tops and backs are actually carved. They are arched about 4mm at center for a mandolin, 6mm for an octave. The bracing I use is the same as for my flat-top mandolins. You do get a stronger, more stable top that doesn't sink to flat when strung. In addition, there are no built-in stresses from inducing an arch. Tone is slightly clearer than a flat-top, without being too punchy. A mix of the two worlds.

[Bob A]

The cyl-backs have a sound all their own. I think the body cavity (and braces) make for a natural reverb chamber.

[JEStanek]

For cantilevered tops I played some martin mandolins a year ago. They have a very different sound from the arch top vintage Gibson oval holes I was playing. I wish I could remember exactly how they were different but they sounded very different to my ear.

Jamie

[David Newton]

Flat tops go "hmmmmm"
Arch tops go "hmmmchunk"

[Lee Callicutt]

For cantilevered tops I played some martin mandolins a year ago. #They have a very different sound from the arch top vintage Gibson oval holes I was playing. #I wish I could remember exactly how they were different but they sounded very different to my ear.

Jamie
My Miller is a bent, or cantilevered top like the old Martins, and I know what you mean. #It's kind of hard to describe. #"Tubby" is probably an accurate description, but one that is unnecessarily negative in its connotations -- coming probably from the unfocused, difuse bass tones. #In general, it is less "focused" or punchy in its tone than my arch top, round hole, and more "guitar-like": rounded in nature and "Celtic-sounding," if-you-will, and of a "woody" character.

[Jkf_Alone]

i just played a martin last week, tubby, round, sweet, and about as non metallic as it gets. it seemed louder to me just because there was a ton of bass. but playing with my wife on guitar showed the martin to be quiet compared to f hole arch tops.