? for oval-hole pickers

[doanepoole]

OK, this is a very strange question to ask, and to explain the WHY to it would involve ALOT of background info that, TRUST ME, you don't want to hear about, so....here goes:

SHORT VERSION: What kind of small body guitar (think L-00 size) would you recommend to record with an old Gibson A style?

MEDIUM VERSION: Lets say you play an old Gibson A-style or whatever-type-mando similar to it: You are contracted to record a bunch of medium-tempo sorta fiddle-style tunes with a talented flatpicker/Carter-style picker who insists on recording with a small-body guitar for the project...her old L-00 is unplayable, and the producers of the project have given her about $1000 to purchase a replacement, but she is "too old and tired" to go out and try guitars out, so I basically have to decide and order it for her.

What guitar do you recommend for my now-time-critical situation? Any advice would meet with my eternal friendship.

[Jim Garber]

What do you mean unplayable? L00's are great instruments. For $1000 I don't think you could get anything nearly as good. My advice: unless the Gibson is a complete basket case -- and I mean like run over by a truck or UPSed -- take the money and bring it to a good repair person and have them do it in a rush if there are time contraints. Besides it is what she is comfortable playing anyway.

Jim

[doanepoole]

I mean unplayable like it has a huge crack running along the entire front, and two cracks that both run almost the entire back...the thing looks and sounds like it was used as a hammer for railroad ties it is so damaged.

[Jim Garber]

Cracks should not be a problem for a competent luthier, even large ones. If the cracks are closeable, i.e., they can be closed with moderate pressure and the wood has not warped around them, the repairs should be doable and would likely be less than $1000 to do.

I suppose you can get a decent guitar for $1000 but I haven't played any new ones that would approach the sound and feel of an old L00.

Jim

[doanepoole]

Thank you, jgarber.

I had one luthier tell me he would not touch this guitar, but maybe I should try another.

Thanks again for helping me not overeact...of cours the project, at least on the contract, has to be done in 2 weeks, so if I can't get a luthier to fix the problems in about a week, you'll hear me screamin about this again.

P.S. Thoughn it may be unnecessary, any sub-$1000 small body guitar recommendations will certainly be taken to heart, and my payment of eternal friendship still stands http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[lownote]

You may consider "renting" an old Gibson for the recording. Possibly go thru the local guitar shops or even and advertisement in the paper for the instrument you need.

[GBG]

Rent the best one you can find.

[John Flynn]

I play old-time, which in MHO, is the "sweet spot" for old Gibson A's. Some OT folks really like antique parlor guitars, but those that buy brand name, new guitars tend to like the small bodied, all-mahogany, Martin 000-15S, which can easily be found for about $850 or less. For recording, I would get one of those and pay a luthier to do a complete detialed set up on it with TI strings, right before the recording session. The guitar has a really, dry, clear sound that I think would highlight the mellowness of the TIs. No financial interest, but I don't think you would be dissappointed.

[Michael H Geimer]

I'm gonna second Mando Johnny's recommendation of the 000-15S. Techincally, it's slightly larger than the usually 'small body', but the mahogany has a tone that really compliments a mandolin one on one. Also, the 000-15S - IMO - is set apart from the other Martin 15's. It has something special about it that I feel will make it a future classic ... the 'sleeper' of the Martin line.

FWIW ... I tried the TI Plectrum strings on my 000-15S, but ultimately wasn't very satified and swtiched back to Martin SPs. The strings were fine overall, but definately seemed quite different than the TI's for mandolin. *W* YMMV.

- Benig

[Jim Garber]

I haven't tried the 00015S but will do so when I can. I know that there are decent guitars under $1000 -- my point was that this person was used to a certain sound of a vintage L-00 and might be disappointed with a brand new instrument. Then again, if she is not willing to try a few guitars out herself then I suppose she gets what she deserves.

On the third hand, what a great gift for anyone: here is $1000 -- go buy what you want. Hmmmmm...

Jim

[Bob A]

Late 40s or early 50s Gibson LG2 is maybe not as lightly constructed as an L00 but should have a nearly similar sound and feel.

[PCypert]

Hey man,
Check ebay. You can get some amazing deals on Larrivees. They make some good small body guitars. Probably some of the consistently sweetest guitars I've played. You can get a steal if you're not looking for fancy inlays and what not. Really look at a Larrivee.
Paul

[Jim Garber]

Late 40s or early 50s Gibson LG2 is maybe not as lightly constructed as an L00 but should have a nearly similar sound and feel.
That may be true, Bob, but if you can find one under $1000 you found yourself a real bargain.

Jim

[Bob A]

Yeah, Jim, I did. Got the LG2, minus tuners, bridge saddle, one brace, and a goodly amount of top finish, for 200. Popped another c-note on quick and dirty repairs. The action is high, but it's a loud and happy example of its type. Of course, that was several years ago. Even a beater from the era now fetches a decent price.

[Jim Garber]

You did exceptionally well. Check out this LG2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3718392157), for closer to the going price.

Jim

[Michael H Geimer]

" ... this person was used to a certain sound of a vintage L-00 and might be disappointed with a brand new instrument. "

Jim,
I don't want to over-hype the 000-15S, but what attracted me to that guitar was its vintage sound. I had just come back from a week in CO playing a pre-war Martin 00, and a 50's J-45. I droped in a local store the day I came home, and picked up a 000-15S. It just had "that sound". They definately do not sound "tight" when new.

Not that it's grand playing, or grand audiophile mat'l, but you could go check out my 000-15S in my Mandolin Project contributions. FWIW.

Also, string spacing might be an issue, as the 000-15S certainly has a wider fingerboard than an L-00.

RE: Larrivee guitars ... I have both a parlour and a dread. I love them both, but would not classify the tone as 'old-timey' at all. They have a top end "shimmer" that is quite modern sounding to my ears.

Hope your project goes well, whichever 6-string gets chosen.

- Benig

[Steve L]

I would get in touch with the engineer/producer at the studio. Those guys often have a collection of good recording instruments or a pipeline where they can rent them as needed. You would probably do better for less money than buying an instrument in a hurry and hoping this person will like it, which she probably won't.

[doanepoole]

Just an update, as it turns out the recording techs has a friend who was very kind to lend his Gibson Robert Johnson for the project, and apparently it is a very nice sounding guitar similar to a vintage L-00 sound...at least so he says.

Crisis averted.

[PCypert]

Seeing as how you're borrowing a guitar now, you wanna split up the 1000 bucks with all the people that offered advice! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[doanepoole]

lol...I can only assume that the offer to get a new guitar has been withdrawn.

[fatt-dad]

I thought Gibson has a reissue of the L-00. I was at a party last year and the host had a real new looking Gibson that looked just like my L-00. So, we talked and he had bought it in the last few years.

Well, I guess you all have it worked out, but maybe I am wondering whether I saw this in a dream.

f-d

[doanepoole]

Just looked this up...Gibson does have a "reissue" L-00 that's called the "Blues King", maybe there are some modifications between this new model and the antique L-00.

Are modern Gibson flattops any good??? I never hear too much about them. Seems like everyone plays Martins, Taylors, or the occasional Collings around here as it pertains to upper-end manufacturer-built flattops.

[Jim Garber]

I have played the reissue L-00s -- I think they were subtitled 'blues king". Not my cup of tea. I think they were built a little to heavily. I have a real one form 1939 and they were built amazingly light which is why they were both desirable and prone to cracks and worse.

On the other hand I tend to be a vintage snob so YMMV.

Jim

[jlb]

A friend of mine had a L-00 reissue which recently got badly cracked (took a spill whilst inside a gig bag).

I have to say though I was impressed in just about every way with that guitar. Honestly, I thought it sounded even better than most vintage L-00s I've heard, but I think its pretty well consensus that its hit-or-miss with those old L-00s.

My friend said he had to try out three before he found the one he liked, but in the end he picked a real winner. I don't know how indicative this example is of the entire Gibson line, because as we all now solid wood instruments can really vary from instrument to instrument, even in the same model.

His Gibson did not have the woofy sound of a Martin or Collings, and I won't comment on Taylors because they don't do much for me to begin with. I suppose you could say it had a unique Gibsonesque quality about it, seeing as how its a Gibson. When I played it I was (a) surprised how loud it could get considering its size, and (b) surprised how responsive it was to picking attack. The tone of the instrument had loads and loads of charisma and you could really get a bunch of sounds out of it....very dynamic in that respect.

I sure hope he can get a good repair job on it.