View Full Version : Loar for sale
Jerry Byers
Jan-10-2007, 11:25am
Larry Wexer WEB Site (http://www.gbase.com/Powered/GearList.aspx?Dealer=8144f611-4c01-4305-8e70-97e811d47f38&GS=Y&PageIndex=1&PageSize=25&SF0=7&SD0=0&DealerId=8144f611-4c01-4305-8e70-97e811d47f38&TF=1&TI0=22&Grp=7&SearchBar=False)
Jerry Byers
Jan-10-2007, 11:28am
Front pic...
Jerry Byers
Jan-10-2007, 11:28am
Back pic...
f5loar
Jan-10-2007, 4:37pm
Looks like a new EDMM(extreme distressed Master Model) from the Nashville Factory. I suspect the tuners have been replaced. The condition and virzi is the reason for the low price. This is a picker's Loar not a collectors showpiece. Nice example of a great era in mandolins by Gibson. Note how the "G" in "Gibson" runs into the top D string bushing.
Jerry Byers
Jan-11-2007, 5:46am
The tuners are modern Waverly's.
I'd be interested in knowing the story about the "G" too.
mythicfish
Jan-11-2007, 7:15am
"IMHO...... man that mando just screams LOAR to me ! ! ! ! Seems like so much mojo going on with it.........
mandopLuker (shayne)"
Although I've owned a few vintage Gibsons, I've only had a few minutes playing time with a Loar F5; so I don't know much about them. But thanks to the Mandolin Cafe, I've learned a lot about people who think they do.
Curt
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Larry always has such nice mandos.
f5loar
Jan-11-2007, 7:23am
The "G" placement just shows Gibson in the 20's was not exact in their pearl inlay positions. Some higher some lower on the name logo. Flowerpots in different spots some even touching the top of the truss rod covers. Truss rod cover placement also not extactly the same location. Tuners drilled differently, some in some out.
It was obvious unless the original tuners had been resilvered plated that these were new Waverlys. Too much silver showing on the post and in the back. Finding an orignial Loar with Silver intact on the tuners is near impossible if not impossible. You can find them with flakes of silver still on the posts but not complete coverage.
Benny Cain one.. I did a double-take at first, this is a different one from the one recently sold by Tony Williamson then.. does anyone have the serial?
Regarding the inlay placement- recall that it was done as marquetry, and almost certainly came preformed as a rectangle.. this would be glued to the substrate on the head, cut to shape, and drilled. I recall that there is a small locating pinhole that shows a scar frequently near the apex of the peghead.
I wonder if the occasionnal mislocations were due to the changing tuner specs (different post spacing) as well as the tricky job of centering the overlay on the peghead fully-formed?
I'd suspect that the ones that have truss rod channels drilled through them etc were also pre-ordered, and used up rather than discarded to replace with the new design.
Darryl Wolfe
Jan-11-2007, 9:07am
The Tony Williamson mandolin was the Benny Cain Fern that Waltham had that sold through Skinner. #It is on hold
This mandolin is not the other one that was sold by Skinner that I thought came from Cain along with the Fern. #I believe Chris Stanley posted these same pictures a while back. #At any rate the one above is 75812, the Skinner one with scratches was 75844 and the Cain Fern was 76779
f5loar
Jan-11-2007, 12:26pm
Wexler had a Fern Loar recently that sold for $160,000. As far as Cain, there are many Loars that can be attributed to the Cain Fame. Cain was a major Loar collector/dealer in the 1960's and as Darryl will tell you was the first to put together a serial number listing of Loars he knew about which lead the way to the F5Journal. I have fond memories of pickin' with Benny and Valli Cain.
bgmando
Jan-11-2007, 12:48pm
Were they related to Nellie Cain?
evanreilly
Jan-11-2007, 1:50pm
Cain't say!
kudzugypsy
Jan-11-2007, 3:51pm
so Darryl, could you shed a little info #for us about Bennie Cain? #within the last 2 weeks i've seen his name surface almost daily in regard to Loars.
just who were these first *collectors* that tried to piece together the whole Loar mystery - i mean, who was the first to realize that these mandos signed by Loar #were a whole lot better than what was then available....and then, how did you go about finding them? most were initially owned by wealthy urban musicians long gone, and yet, here were a bunch of folkies wanting these instruments.
I know Harry West was one of the first, and Tut Taylor found a few also.
i think that a little history on the history of the re-discovery of the Loar would be an interesting read.
Darryl Wolfe
Jan-12-2007, 6:44am
Probably the best way to put it is "F-holes". In the 50's and 60's the aspiring musician or fan would notice that the scroll and point mandolin that Bill Monroe and Dave Apollon played differed from most Gibson scroll models in that it had F-holes instead of the easy to find oval hole scroll mandos. So there was that fever to find the elusive F-hole Gibson artist model. At that time, if it said Gibson and had F-holes it was an F-5. No Dudes, Randy Woods, no Givens no Nuggets.
So, Benny Cain, Tut Taylor, Harry West, Mike Longworth on Martins, west coast folks like Randy Snoddy and a few others were the first generation of treasure seekers. They used pictures and names from the old catalogs to track down the instruments. After finding a few, they became collector/dealers. Benny was simply the first to start establishing a list of serial numbers and who had what. A good tool to stay in touch and be Johnny on the spot for buying and selling. Then came the second generation of folks like George Gruhn, Rick Riman and a host of other "highly educated" "Hippie" generation individuals who have gone on to be some of the largest well know dealers now.
Bob Denton
Jan-12-2007, 11:16am
I used to tour with Roger Sprung in the early 60s when I was 14-16. We used to visit with Harry and Jeanie at their home every year, somewhere in West Virginia, I can't remember where.
I do remember a whole wall of F5s and subsequent discussions that they were a bit crazy about those old mandolins. If I remember right, they paid hundreds of dollars for each one!
Cya!
MandoCowboy
Feb-02-2007, 8:44pm
Did anyone purchase this Loar?
Hallmark498
Feb-05-2007, 11:56am
Is this mando over priced with the tuners being replaced?
allenhopkins
Feb-05-2007, 1:03pm
At that time, if it said Gibson and had F-holes it was an F-5.
Or an F-12, or even an F-7...
Hallmark498
Feb-05-2007, 4:44pm
That makes sense.
Willie
Mar-01-2007, 2:07pm
Darryl...I was in the Air Force with Mike Longworth and tried to look him up at Martin and he was on vacation and then I heard he was in bad health and retired....Do you have any up to date info on Mike? The last contact with him many years ago....Willie
Darryl Wolfe
Mar-01-2007, 2:27pm
I'm sorry to report that he passed away January, 2003 after retiring from Martin. Martin now has a commemorative D-45 in his memory. I believe this photo graces the label inside the guitar
Larry has the original tuners for the mando I think he told me.
Steven Stone
Mar-01-2007, 5:46pm
[I'm sorry to report that he passed away January, 2003 after retiring from Martin. #Martin now has a commemorative D-45 in his memory. #I believe this photo graces the label inside the guitar]
A day late and a pound short.
Too bad they weren't so "magnanimous" while he was alive. He was abruptly "retired" and never given the credit he deserved for resurecting the D-45, creating the positions of historian, A&R liason, customer service, and resident "picker" at Martin.
Mike Longworth did more for the vintage instrument world than any other single individual. Without his passion, scholarship, and craftsmanship the world would have been a much poorer and more ignorant place.
David Newton
Mar-02-2007, 1:37pm
I will join this little curve in the thread to tell my little Mike Longworth story. I was deep into ukulele building several years ago, and before the WWW was active, had a little email newsletter called the "Worldwide Ukulele Forum" Mike was a member and we would correspond about all things Uke and Guitars and pearl inlay, as Mike was one of Martin's top inlay guys for some time. I only met him in person once, 1978, but his generosity and grace was not limited by distance. What a wonderful man!
Darryl Wolfe
Mar-05-2007, 11:31am
..and for those inquiring minds, the "L-5" inlayed in the fingerboard of Lester Flatt's guitar stands for Longworth No. 5 (at least that is what I have been told)
Ken Berner
Mar-05-2007, 12:36pm
As I recall, Mr. Longworth was the craftsman who installed the beautiful inlay on all D-45s for some time; a very tedious task, but a labor of love. Wasn't he the Martin historian, as well?
Dittos Steven!
I think Mike resurected the D-45 by converting D-28's to 45's before they were being offered by Martin!
Story was, that when they let him go, he strolled over to one of the historic guitar displays and promptly reminded them that the D-45 he was taking belonged to him. A friend of mine now owns that guitar!
f5loar
Mar-05-2007, 5:47pm
That's right Darryl(hey hows it coming?)and Curly Seckler had the "L4" in his F4 done at the same time. Anybody know who has L1,L2 and L3?
flatthead
Mar-05-2007, 8:05pm
I always heard that Earl had one of those "L" blocks in the fretboard of the JW Gower neck of 9584, and that after Mike inlaid it in there, Earl didn't like it and told Mike to take it out. Coulda been L1, L2, or L3....
f5loar
Mar-05-2007, 9:10pm
Earl was concered about a little ole L? in his fancy inlayed Granada fingerboard but yet praised Gibson for putting a bowtie fingerboard on it? Hmmmmm.....
Hey Tom - you questioning Earl!
Saw where your nephew put a little cash in his pocket this weekend! Probably enough to buy a Loar!
f5loar
Mar-06-2007, 12:20am
2nd place would get him a nice cheap Loar indeed! Lots of expense in winning that chance. Hard to say what he put in his pocket after taxes. He's my 2nd cousin.
Soupy1957
Mar-06-2007, 3:54am
$155,000.00 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??? Dollars?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif???
-Soupy1957
Sorry I messed the relationship up - guess you won't be getting the normal "uncles share" of the winnings!
f5loar
Mar-06-2007, 9:36am
His purse winning was $200,750. Not bad for hitting a little ball around as hard as you can for 3 hours and then ride in a 4 wheel cart to go after it. After paying his caddy and entrance fee,etc and the tax man he'll barely pay his living expenses in that big house he lives in near Tiger's house in FL. Luckily has does not have MAS http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Tom - you should know that the PGA players (except the Champion's tour) walk and don't ride in carts. Tripp had to walk for four straight days to earn that 200K. After taxes, caddy fee, and entry fee (diddly squat), expenses, he still probably cleared well over 100K - probably enough to make a few payments on his house near Tiger. Oh, you forgot about all of those endorsements these guys get!
I still think he should buy his second cousin a varnished fern!
flatthead
Mar-06-2007, 9:54am
Evidently he has never used this sentence: #"What band you pickin with, now?"http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Michael Gowell
Mar-06-2007, 12:40pm
To go back to the subject of fingerboard inlays...I was under the impression that Gibson installed that "bow-tie" fingerboard on Earl's banjo when he'd sent it in just for a refret, and that he was very unhappy about the change. #Another example of the old "unasked-for refurbishing" by the factory, like Martin did by overspraying original finishes on customers' guitars when they were in for any repair. #And we all know the story about ol' Bill's Loar of course.
We're fortunate to live in a time of many highly qualified luthiers so that our repair wishes can be communicated directly and the prevailing repair ethic is "least change is best."
8ch(pl)
Mar-08-2007, 7:26am
Gibson may have displeased Mr Bill one time , but Charlie Derrington came through for the instrument at another.
It is something to see the tribute to Mike Longworth, reminds me of what was said here when Mr Derrington died.
It doesn't mean much, what I say about myself. It is what others say about me that counts.
Jonathan Peck
Mar-08-2007, 11:45am
Yesterday, I got to hear and play a 1959 Martin D-18 that was modified by Mike Longworth. It had banjolike inlays on the fretboard, a big torch like inlay on the headstock, and a wider neck. It was a killer sounding guitar and didn't sound a whole lot like a Martin D-18.....and it hadn't been played in almost 20 years. Very cool.
-jonathan
Hallmark498
Mar-08-2007, 3:31pm
My father has a 54 D-28 that I have known all my life. One day I asked him what the "L" inlay on the fret board stood for. He informed me in the 60s he let a guy do some work on the old box and the L stood for Longworth. I had the pleasure of meeting Mike, very nice fellow. My father and I spent the day at his house and he had very interesting storys.
By the way the old d-28 is the best guitar I have ever played!