Pickups

[79weber]

I have been doing some checking up on several different pickups the K and K, schatten, and the scherlter(used by Thile)? Has anyone had any experience with these pickups good or bad? and any recommendations on any others?

[Mike Bunting]

Try the AKG C411.

[79weber]

Just checked up the mic. what kind of price range is it? Is any well known mandolin players using this mic yet? it seemed like a new product, any comment on the other brands I mentioned?

[mando.player]

The AKG C411 has been out for a while, possibly longer than the Scherlter. #No experience with them though. #Price is around $145.

[79weber]

I don't know if mike is still there but if so how is the akg on the low end? The mandolins that I have played in my experience have a problem getting the natural sound with enough lows? Any comment on the Kand K or the schatten?

[79weber]

another question, any one have any experience with a good acoustic amp for a mandolin. Tried the fender, roland, crate, fishman, and marshall. Any other recommendations with experience?

[Mike Bunting]

AER acoustc amps.

[Mike Bunting]

Don Grieser, it's time for you to enter the game, are still using the AKG? Thru the AER I get the most natural sound that I've been able to get yet when not just miking my axe.

[Mike Bunting]

My Webpage (http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,186,id,272,pid,272,_language,E N.html)

[Mike Bunting]

Don't know why that last post says my webpage--it is a link to the Akg C411 page

[mandroid]

Yesterday the low frequencys was spoken of , and I'll offer :
a Tonegard #on the back, helps bring out the lower frequencys , because the whole body is allowed to vibrate better , which helps the lower range .

My Schertler being attached to the soundboard, and being a microphone, will provide a way to send that full sound to your mixer, and then it can combine, with the freestanding microphone #to give you a nice range of tones to blend together . #narrower pattern small diphragm pickup #may reduce feedback .

Large diaphragm one may be hearing too much in a live setting without drapes on all the walls or some way to kill reflected sound, digitally..

AKG C411 is also a contact microphone, of condenser type mechanisim,
and may be more affordable. its power supply requirements are limited to 9v. #listed in accessories, there is a voltage regulator connector that allows phantom power to be used which is varied in voltage output .
seems required , but not in list price ..
. . . . . . . .
Roland AC 60 seems like a good acoustic amp, small enough in size, it can also serve as a pre amp, a monitor, #and has a #powered sub woofer out jack #for all the bottom end you can desire . phantom on mic channel; feedback supressor too..
run the Schertler Dyn M, thru it,.. if I use the matching transformer I can put it in the 1/4" channel which has a magnetic/ piezo switch.
In That one seems there is a bit of de-quacking .
& when the 'dola 4 string #electric #comes out, #the humbucker #goes in there , the other switch position, and still have a microphone channel, left.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[79weber]

Someone earlier was speaking of the aer amp and akg mic, are you refering to the akg c411? If so do you recommend using a preamp with this mic? Are you also saying that the compatability of the akg is pretty equivalent to the schertler for the money?

[wah]

Because the AKG C411 is a condensor mic a pre amp is pretty necessary. I use mine with a PreSonus Blue Tube and am very happy with the results.


Wayne

[Don Grieser]

I use the AKG C411 into an Art Tube Pre for phantom power and the ability to turn it off to the house for tuning. It's got plenty of low end. I usually have the treble rolled off a touch on the board. As natural a sound as any pickup I've heard, but I sure would like to get my hands on a Fishman Aura to try out.

[79weber]

Thanks for the advice I have an ART condenser mic and tube pre-amp that I have used and have some trouble with feedback that is why I am looking into pickups such as the schertler, the AKG c411, and the schatten. I have heard some negative feedback about the bridge pickups as far as not getting a natural sound as much as with the stick-on pickups. If anyone has any comments about the schertler or schatten I appreciate it also.

[79weber]

Any one have an opinion on bridge pickups such as the fishman ect.

[mandroid]

the F5 Lebeda mandolin of mine #has a bridge insert #piezo pickup ,
sound? it would do for a floor pedal tuner #signal.
the one Schertler is fitted to any of several mandolins , so I could have bypassed on installing pickups on any of them . .

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[79weber]

Can anyone tell me what kind of pickup Adam Steffey uses?

[tterral]

On the AKG C411, do most people use it for non-permanent installations (take it off after a gig)? Also, how is the cable at the end of the pikup terminated, I think I read it is a mini XLR. I do not know if I have seen a mini XLR. My pre amp (Raven Labs PMB-1) has 1/4" input jacks.

[mandroid]

Raven is thinking guitars #and dynamic mics #are what the majority of their customers use ?. #they can use 1/4 fine.

the Mini XLR is on the in-line #voltage regulator [for no more than 9v dc]
that AKG makes, for that pickup. ' MPA III L'

so then, with a phantom power supply, [or the battery one AKG makes ,
for 9v snap connector battery] you can then adapt the signal from balanced 3 #to 2 conductor 1/4".
Life with the Dyn-M is so much simpler , as there is no need of phantom power.

XLR to 1/4" is a common adapter{I have one that matches impedance to use inputs expecting High impedance signal] ; #it would appear by using the mini xlr, you have to get the regulator / connection #adaptor so you don't toast the pickup with excessive #48v phantom output.

[tterral]

So are you saying the mini XLR is physically the same size a regular XLR and would fit in a typical mixing console? The Raven Labs has phantom power for a mic, it is a blender type of pre amp - one input for a standard pickup and one for a microphone. I am concerned if could plug this straight into the Raven Labs pre amp (I have an XLR to 1/4' adaptor) or if I need the adaptor from AKG, would not want to fry the thing. Also, I believe the cable is only 10' long, which a little short, but would work.

[mandroid]

Reading further on the #website #[and revising my previous post] #
You buy AKG's optional accessory," MPA III L " # which is a voltage regulator and it limits the phantom output to the C411 to keep from frying it .

you have then both halves of the mini XLR pair

then you can plug the mic cable from the mixer into the MPA 3 L ...

the mini XLR, I can assume, is to prevent you from just plugging in direct, destroying the pickup in the process #from #the potential over voltage feed.

Adding:" B29 L" # will #Mix in #2 C411s or a 411L& a 417L a Lavalier minimic
[2 mini xlr inputs] and battery power both, #and has a line/mic output switch, > standard mic cable connector .

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Jeff Rose]

79 Weber,
The last I knew Adam Steffey was still using a DPA 4061 microphone.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[tterral]

Where are people mounting the AKG C411, on the bridge as AKG seems to suggest, or on the body. Where on the bridge or body are people mounting them.

Thanks for the input.
Tim Terral

[Mike Bunting]

After experimenting with different places on he top and listening to the sound, I usually put mine on the top just in front of the bridge on the upper bout side. This may depend on the instrument, what you like to hear and who knows what else. Just experiment.

[Don Grieser]

My 411 ends in a full sized XLR with a 6 or 8 ft skinny cable between it and the mic. I asked AKG about changing that out and mounting it permanently. They were against both ideas. Apparently there's some electronics in their XLR connnector that needs to be there to handle the phantom power. They also think that black sticky stuff has some acoustic properties that a permanent adhesive would not have.

I stick mine right behind the bridge (tailpiece side) on the bass side. I still need to roll off a bit of treble on the board.

It's not like micing the mandolin, but it beats any quacking piezo. I'm still interested in the Fishman Aura though.

[mandroid]

Looking like 417 , the lavalier microphone is offered in a PP version that would include the voltage regulator #website says only an L code for the 411 .
so the MPA111L and the L code 411 are functionaly similar #used as a set.
reading further the mini Xlr is also a connector used in the wireless belt transmitters
and as earlier, a belt mounted 2 mic mixer/battery phantom
one could have a 411pickup/417mic combination mix ..

someone perhaps has another #C411PP on a dusty shelf somewhere ..
the MiniXlr 2 piece current setup may be more versatile with future 2 input possibilitys.
widget shopping bliss #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif


note: Don ,etal, #FWIW, Schertler Does have a version of their Dyn M for internal mounting #via TRS jack, same mech , no case around it..
with no phantom power requirement , plugging into TR 1/4" guitar stuff #a Fish 'Aura' would be more #practical ..
[though, I wonder (aloud) #if they[fish-aura] work in the usual mixer's external #EFX send/ return loop so you can still get Phantom juice to the PP condenser]
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Mike Bunting]

My 411 has the same connector described by Don. The AER amp has phantom power and I've not been disappointed with the sound when I've gone w/o the preamp and the setup can't be any simpler. I use the 411 setup in loud venues etc, for mixed bands (elect + acoust), I'll use this for my monitor and a mic (KSM141) for the house and for acoustic gigs in a classy joint I can just use the mic.

[tterral]

I have been checking everywhere I know of on the C411 and while they are not that hard to find, the propritory hardware that goes with it ( B 29L, etc.) is either pretty darn expensive (B 29 L not bad at $90.00, the others are >$150.00) or not easily found. No one has the baterry pack/phantom power modules in stock and wait time from AKG is 21 business days or more. Also, since they terminate in a mini-XLR you pretty much need one of their gizmos to make it work. I will look and see if there is some kind of mini XLR to regular XLK adaptor available. Unfortuately, the C411 PP is no longer available (it terminates in a standard XLR). If anyone has any ideas, I would appreciate it. May end up going back to the K & K or the Schatten.

[tterral]

OK, I kinda jumped the gun, I found a mini XLR to standard XLR cable, as well as to 1/4" TRS jacks, so maybe this is an option. My Raven Labs PMB-1 has 9V phantom power, which is what the C411 evidently requires. Anyone see any problems with connecting the C411 to a cable like this and running it to my RL PMB-1? Anything one could imagine in the AKG propritory hardware that I would have to have to make the C411 work as I described. I can't think of anything myself.

[mandroid]

Other than checking schematics to make sure the volts end up going down the right wire , and probably being outside of warrentee combination from AKG's perspective, [asking the gear's seller wont hurt] the numbers would seem appropriate.

Yamaha AG stomp has a TRS cord 9v phantom, for replacing the internal battery in some guitar onboard preamps, they include a -shorted across the snap connectors - dummy battery to install. perhaps Raven labs had that in mind too..

Read the owners manual (s) and signal path schematics to be safe.

[tterral]

Okay I checked the manual on the C411, no schematics, but the safest thing to do to avoid frying the pickup would be to get the battery pack or transformer to be able use it with our mixer or my RL pre. So now the question is, is this setup worth $225.00-250.00, which is the cost for the pickup and other required hardware? What was the cost of the C411PP, which did not require anything else? With the K & K being less than $100.00 and the Schatten being around $125.00, I am wondering if the AKG offers any sonic improvement?

[mandroid]

The MPAIIIL should be widely available , and then #with L type C411 combined, function #like the previously mentioned, but discontinued C411PP.


Not to be confused with Schatten, a canadian maker of piezos,#several models, incl. #in-bridge #like fishman and many others..

with links to wikipedia articles [piezoelectric, and microphone] the difference between a piezo transducer and a microphone should be clear. {those were put in the 'pickup I like' thread}

Schertler of switzerland, #is the other direct soundboard contact pickup of a microphonic type,
made easily removable, from the top of the instrument .
ends withn an XLR connector, but being a dynamic microphone #type [ magnet moving within a coil of wire ] it can be easily used with other 1/4" input #stuff , as it needs no external power.
see : http://www.schertlerusa.com/dyn.htm#mandolin.

2 are being resold on the classifieds at present, #one includes the preamp which has more value as a balanced signal [XLR] splitter for monitor tone controls, #and a send to a house PA board, which sound guy would control.

I would put Schertler dynamic and the AKC condenser pickups #in a separate category, #and piezos in another #entirely.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[79weber]

Does anyone know the price of a AKG C411PP and will connect directly into a mixer board?

[mandroid]

79CYW .. Good luck, sounds like you will have to find one in old stock , no longer made in PP configuration, L version now in 2 parts, sold separately . see above and AKG website .