Double top?

[John Bertotti]

I was wandering around the board and saw a post with a bowl back instrument (I think it was a bowl) that stated it was a double top. What is it? Does it really have two tops, maybe one under the other? What drives the second top? Is it like a virizi? Thanks John

[Bob A]

I know of two makes of classical-type instruments with double tops. The Gelas has a top that is bent inward, rather than the reverse. It has a secondary top over half the main top. It is difficult to describe, but once you've seen one you'll never forget it. I've not handled one, but I'm told they sound just fine.

The other is the Ceccerini, which looks like a regular bowlback but has a second soundboard suspended underneath the primeary, inside the bowl. I think there's one depicted at www.bernunzio.com - at least it was there last week.

A google search might turn up some pics - I think there's a Gelas at www.oldmandolin.com in Italy.

I played Bernunzio's Ceccherini a few weeks ago - it's a very sweet sounding mandolin.

I don't understand whay these things actually work - you'd think all the extra mass would kill the volume. But when it comes to mandolins, apparently anything goes.

[Bob A]

If you goe to the Boetzkes Snaarinstrumenten site, linked under dealers, theres a few pics of #Gelas, including a good one of the weird profile. Bernunzio's Ceccherini pics are gone; if you google Sinier De Ridder, a French luthier site, they have a nice shot of the inner board of a Ceccherini. (They spell it "Geccherini" on the site).

[John Bertotti]

So I checked out this site http://sinierderidder.free.fr/gb/maingb.html and see two types of double top. 1 mounted above and 1 below. I can see how the one below could operate similar to a virizi but the one above makes me wonder. Even if it is driven by the main top I wonder if it wasn't just a way to add a pick guard and embellishments with out hindering the main top. Any comments, anyone know how the mounted above second top works. Thanks John

[labraid]

From the above mentioned pages... Interesting, looks to me, though I can't see any internal structure, it works like modern speakers--sort of a sound cavern? Bose does that, in a non-mandolin-esque way. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
http://sinierderidder.free.fr/images/mandolines/geccherini3.jpg

[Alec]

Hi John,

Two or three years back I found a double top mandolin on a market stall. It turned out to be a 1933 Gelas. I had the neck re set and it plays beautifully. One interesting point about a Gelas is that the strings don’t push down on the top. They actually pull up because of the ”through” bridge and the way the top bends upwards. I’ve not had a lot of experience with classical mandolins, but to me the sound is lovely. If you are interested in the sound I could send you a short piece I recorded on it two years ago.

Cheers alec.

[John Bertotti]

Alec that would be outstanding! I would love to see a close up of that bridge if you have one. Thanks John

[Jim Garber]

Here's the best I have at the moment... from the Sinier site

Jim

[Jim Garber]

Here's another Gelas. It is a strange concept and must have been a pain to make. I have seen one in bad shape buty it was not playable so i could not vouch for the viability of the design.

Jim

[labraid]

that top is flat or bends down, away from the viewer in the middle?

[John Bertotti]

Yes it is canted opposite of the more traditional way. I found a good side view at the www.oldmandolins.com website. Alec let me hear an mp3 he recorded with one. It sounded great to my ears. I think I now understand MAS. And without changing the intent of this thread be warned I think it's contagions are on this thread! Thanks everyone for the info and sharing the disease (MAS) If I had to get it this is a good place.

Now for an observation and perhaps one of our resident luthiers will chime in. It appears to me that this double top is in essence adding a very small second sound chamber. I am thinking of it as less of a second top but as an instrument with the sound board inside the main chamber. Just a thought John