Please help

[mzbanjo]

I feel stupid having to say this, but I can't tune my mando. I just bought it a few months ago and for the last couple of weeks I can't get the A strings to sound the same even though all three of my electric tuners are telling me that it's tuned. If I do get them to sound similar that goes away very quickly. I have concluded that I must have done something to the mando but don't know what I did. Any advice would be appreciated. I spend more time trying to get it in tune than playing the darn thing.

Matt

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Are your strings getting old? #A strings going false is a sign that your strings may need to be changed. #Also, try a different tuner. #Some tuners are not very precise and though it may look like it's in tune, it may be slightly off. #Or your strings may be slipping or piching in the nut or on the peg so they so out of tune as you play them. #

mark

[dixiecreek]

I had the same problem not too long ago. Time for new strings! ;)

[mzbanjo]

Just changed strings and have tried all three of the tuners that I own. Any other possiblities?

[jongolin]

I too have that problem. New strings go a long towards fixing it, plus, as my strings age I use the tuner for "ball-parking" then sort-of chord tune it. I have a horrifically cheap (free to me) mandolin, the illustrious "Seville" model, known near and skinny as....well you get the idea. My current theory is that since mando's are arch tops they are very dependent upon the top vibrating (more so than guitars) in unison and the top of the mandolin is "tuned" (that is ignored by the builder) to a half-tone or more off from the actual frequency. If anyone knows more about this I'd love to hear it.
I'm saving up for good one and if you are too those techniques should help til we can get a good one. I'm currently leaning towards a Breedlove with a built in p-u, something like the Orca but hopefully by the time I have the $$ I'll see one in the classifieds here.
Good Luck

[grsnovi]

How many wraps does the string have at the tuning machine post?

Too many and tension will cause the string to pull into the wraps of under lying strings. Too few and the string can slip.

Can you get it in tune with the strings "open" but then as you play up the neck the strings are "off" in the fretted positions? If that is the case, you have an intonation issue (a bridge problem most likely).

[mzbanjo]

There's probably about two wraps around each post but I'll double check it. I can't even get them in tune when they're open. I have no idea what the problem is. And it's not a cheap mando, it's a weber bitterroot. All I know is that it must be something I've done because when I first got it a couple months ago I didn't have this problem. I'm wondering why all three of my tuners tell me it's in tune and then it sounds horrible. I will say this tough, I'll get them close and then after playing for about 10 seconds (literally) it will sound five times worse, so maybe they're slipping. If it is the bridge, how can I tell/fix it?

[ourgang]

This may sound dumb and I am surly not trying to insult you, but, be sure that you have two A strings and not an A and an E. Be sure that the strings are moving freely through the nut. Check the winding on the loop end of the string to sure that it is not un-winding. If it has a stamped tailpiece, be sure that the tabs that hold the strings are not bending. All OK, replace the A strings and try again.

[John Flynn]

Some other things to try that I am not sure were previously mentioned:

Make sure you have a "locking bend" on each string at the tuning peg. There are illustrations starting at the bottom of the following page and continuing to the next page:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....g3.html (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Mandolin/MandoString/mandostring3.html)

That locking bend is very important on unwound strings.

Next, make sure you are always tuning up to pitch, never down. If a string is flat, tune up. If it is sharp, tune it flat and then tune it up.

Finally, lubricate your nut slots with graphite dust. The easiest way is to just take a pencil and rub the point back and forth a few times in the open nut slot. If there is too much friction on the string at the nut, it can cause tuning problems.

If all the advice on this thread doesn't work, it's time to see a luthier!

[Mastersound]

You said the strings have a couple of turns on the tuner posts. My guess is your strings aren't tied off correctly. allowing them to slip through the tuner posts. There are honestly very very few bad tuners, it's usually bad fitting of strings.

There's a good article on it at
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....g2.html (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/SteelStrings/Stringing/ststringing2.html)

Edited: Looks lkike Mando Johnny had the same idea as me! Great minds think alike! :-)

[levin4now]

I use the technique from frets.com (referenced above in the last 2 responses) on my guitar and mando. I do a much neater job now! However, they do not show more than ONE wrap with their locking technique....is it still critical, or does that locking technique prevent sling slippage in your opinion?

I'm having trouble getting my mando in tune for the first time ever, but I had the bridge move slightly, and I wonder if my intonation is out. (see new thread for question on this)

adm

[John Flynn]

Personally, I think the locking bend does the trick. Once or twice, I have accidentally done the bend and not left enough slack to do two turns and it has worked fine. But I generally do the bend and two turns.

An alternative to the bend I have tried successfully is what I call the "over/under" technique. I will put the string through the post hole and then do one turn where the part of the string coming from the nut goes over the end of the string and then the next turn where it goes under the the end of the string. This causes the first two turns to cross each other, creating the same effect as the bend.

I think it's strings slipping to. I personally don't use the locking bend as I hate taking strings off that have been put on that way. I pull the string tight, give it 3 wraps (A & E, 2 D, 1 G), bring it back through the post above the wraps & bend upwards....tune to pitch (don't cut off the excess string until tuned to pitch)...they will seldom slip after the initial tuning & are easier to take off than those with the bend...

[Mastersound]

Hi again

For wound strings I do the locking bit, one wrap above the hole and at least one under the hole, so it kinda squishes the locked bit and holds it tight. For plain strings I do the locking bit, one wrap above the hole and at least three under the hole, so it kinda squishes the locked bit and holds it very tight. For flat "Fender" style pegheads it increases the break angle a bit more too, which never hurts.

[grsnovi]

Matt -

Twice you've said: "I hope its not something I've done"...

...what have you done to the instrument other than change strings?? Anything?

It sounds like you have the string post end covered (although I've been changing strings now for close to 40 years, I have gotten sloppy the last couple of times and had slippage). If it is not that, double check your tail piece attach points as ourgang suggest:

a) are the hooks solid? have the bent?
b) are the string loops unwrapping under tension?

What guage/brand strings are you using?

Have you take the instrument back to the shop where you purchased it?

Do you have other instruments you've re-strung over the years?

[mzbanjo]

thanks for all of the tips. I'll try that locking bend and see if it helps. I'm fairly new to mando and probably just did something stupid. If all else fails, Elderly is only an hour away and I love having excuses to go there.

Piece
Matt

[Bluegrasstjej]

You've got lots of good advice here. I had that problem with my old mandolin. It had been broken at the end of the neck once, but repaired, and I actually found out (after I had bought a new mando and took the old one to the shop to hear if it was worth anything) that the tuning problem was caused by the old crack that was opening up again. So if nothing that the others have said helps you, you might want to take the mandolin to a repairman or builder to see if it's ok. Sometimes wrong bridge placement causes those things too.