Calling KM-1000 (Japan) owners

[doublestop]

Hi,
I'm seeking owners of Japanese made KM-1000's. I know there are at least a couple on the board. I have a mandolin here that I think is a Japanese made KM-1000, but am having trouble confirming from any reliable source. It has a 5 digit number that starts with an 86xxx. There is nothing on the label that says, "Made in Korea" which gets me to thinking that it is Japanese made. Can anyone help me out and what do these models generally sell for? Can't find anyone on the internet offering any for sale.

[Mike McCoy]

Hey Doublestop,
You still havent reached a reliable source but I'll try and help any way. From the serial #'s I've seen here on the Cafe concerning KM1000's your "is" a Japanese era mando. The 80's KM1000's seem to have started out with serial #,s that reflected the year they were made i.e. 86XXX in the late 80's or early 90's they went to a different set of numbers that dont relect the year or anything else. Then in the mid '90's they moved production to Korea. Thats my take on it I'm sure there are others who know more.
Mike

Mike you are correct that would be a made in Japan mandolin from those numbers

[Joe Singleton]

Mine says 108 XX and this is an example of the varied numbering styles. Some with spaces, some without,. I am confident this is a Japanese made Km-1000 and where ever it was made, it sounds very good. Good luck with the Saga search.-

[doublestop]

Does anyone know what the market is willing to pay for such a beast that is in excellent condition? I'm going to post a photo, but I've got to do the dishes first or I'll be in trouble.

[doublestop]

I'm back and said I would post a photo. Thanks for all the help so far. Still can't find any others for sale on the internet anywhere. Are people hanging on to these instruments for a good reason? I guess they are one of the best f style instruments in their price range. Whatever that may be.

[doublestop]

Another.....

[Mike McCoy]

I have seen KM1500's from this era going for $2,350 lately. Given the condition of your KM1000 $1,800 would be my half educated guess. I can't speak for anybody else but I'm real happy with my Japanese KM1000 and think its a hell of a deal for the quality of workmanship and sound.

[GTison]

I'll weigh in...
I bought mine in 84. It may have been made in 83. The serial number is 212 09. (with the space) I guess the other numbering system also applys. The K on my headstock has a short tail on the lower stalk of the "K" unlike the one above. Though that is not rulling yours out to be a 80's model. I've played several others over the years. They very a bit in tone but setup is important as on any mandolin. If I were selling it (which I have thought about) I would hope to get 1500 plus or minus some amount. I've kinda watched them on ebay and I think thats a fair price. The KM1500's are more sought after because they are prettier at least. Mandolin world headquarters has 2 KM1500's
When shopping for mandolins last year I took this one along to compare volume and tone of the new ones. I can't remember all of them specificly but the KM was def. better than any $ 1000 or less mando I played. But I wasn't shopping for that. It held it's own up to about $2 or 3K in mandolin value IMHO. Now that's a pretty subjective opinion. I has cutting power in the trebles that cut like no other. I lacks the body of tone that my new Gibson fern has. For a jam It's great. For stage It cuts a mike. It's a good mandolin overall. Mine doesn't look as pretty as the one above. good luck.

[Joe Singleton]

I've got a short tale on the "K" as well

[Mike McCoy]

My serial # is 21049 no space and the K has a long tail. Bowfinger, since you are an original owner of a Japanese KM1000 what is the original case like that came with your KM1000?

[doublestop]

The case that came with the mandolin above is Superior case with blue interior and leather handle. Don't know if it is original or not.

[Mike McCoy]

That could be the original Double stop, who knows. I'm the third owner of my KM1000 and was told that the case is the original. Its a black rectangular with blue interior. A couple of things I have done to improve the overall sound of mine is I use a Golden Gate pick and I put a ToneGard on it last year that made a big differance in tone and volume, thanks again Tony!

[GTison]

the case is the blue velvet interior. w/ the leather handle. It's laid out like an original loar case, with the mando down the center w/open "pockets on each side of the headstock. Some of the later cases have blue velour or loop pile interior w/ the same lay out. I dug out the old receipt. I purchased it 11/10/84. I remember the salesman saying it had been there a long time. I dickered with him about the price to get 35%off of list of 1100 bucks because someone else would sell it to me mail order for that. tax tag and title $754.17 pretty cheap. But just think If I had known what I was doing I would have bought a Monte. Grand Artist for about 3000. now that would have been a purchse. I bought it because I could afford it, it seemed to be constructed right and had a good reputation. other mandos washburns,aria,alverez, all didn't look right to me. And didn't sound right either. But Now I see the above mando on the classified for 1800. Maybe it's time to sell mine.

[Mike McCoy]

Hey Bowfinger thanks for the feedback. Yeah I remember when the Kentucky's first started hitting the shelves, they looked "right" to me as well. I cant remember what I was playing at the time. My first mando was a A-40 back in the early 70's. There follwed a long line of mandos. I have ended up with my KM1000 after having dropped mando for a few years and pretty much have it for the same reasons you bought yours years ago. You know I've been lucky in that I never had the money when some of the "big" name mandos were cheaper so I dont suffer from the "if I'd only knowns" at least I think thats being luck, LOL! That sure was a great deal you haggled for in getting your KM1000. Yeah how about that it sure didnt take long for that one to hit the classifieds! I dont know, if you dont "need" to get rid of the old girl you might just hang on to her, of course you have the Gibson to keep you company.

[GTison]

I took it out and played it because of all this . It still sounds good to me, and plays GREAT. It's so easy to play. It has some true cutting power on those trebles esp. up high. I think the scale length is aobut a 1/4 inch shorter, which may not seem like much but the frets are in a slightly closer position. Makes reaching easier and swapping back and forth between mandos a little "noticable". If I can scan some pics I'll post 'em. Yes it does have alot of sentemental value. I thought I was gonna sell it in the trade for the gibson fern, but I ended up not having to. I kept saving up my picking money, and kept putting off buying another. The top on mine is much darker and has alot of figure in the spruce. the back doesn't have flame but has a kind of burl or something strange to it.

[Mike McCoy]

I noticed that shorter scale length on mine or at least like you said the frets seem a bit closer. I had a Japanese KM800 that had a top on it like your describing it was a good sounding mando as well. Mine has a bit of flame to the back and has some on the neck and sides as well although I dont think it makes a dimes worth of differance to the sound. I'd like to see your KM1000. I dont have any idea how to post a photo on here or I'd post some of mine.

[GTison]

did a search for KM 1000's and found one Jap made one in canada for about 2100 American. wow that's climbing up there uh? Maybe they are still a bargan.

[Mike McCoy]

Thats the highest price I ever heard of one going for. Yeah it makes that $1800 sounds allot better for one.

[doublestop]

I finally had the opportunity to play this Kentucky with a guitar today. I must say it sounds fantastic. It has great volume and I didn't have to dig in at all to get it. I know all you KM-1000 owners are bragging about what great trebles yours has, but this one really has great bass end as well. I compared it to my mandolin which costs about three times as much. I had to dig in a little harder and the guitar player fessed up that he laid back a little. I guess now I'm thinking about buying this little gem for myself. If I can convince the owner to take payments. I really can't justify it since I have another mando on the way, but I'm thinking about it. Thanks for everyone's help in this matter.

[GTison]

I can say mine is very responsive. If you touch it, it will sound out. Ronnie McCoury played one back in the 80's when he was a "kid" playing w/ del. He recorded the sawmill album with it. and I'd say that it is a good example of what a km1000 can sound like.

The Older Japan KM1000 are very good mandolins but my experience with them selling are around $1500 tops for one.

[Vince]

I just had to chime in. I had (weep,weep) a nice KM 1000 for over twenty years and kept it in very nice condition. I sold it because I had a mando made for me by a local builder and am very happy with the new Mando. I knew I wouldn't play the Kentucky as I have a new love in my life which is why I sold it. I must say that The KM 1000 performed very well over the years. Great tone and played very easily. I don't have the serial number now as my e mail is down and that's where I last recorded it. I did sell it for what I thought was a very fair price given that I've been playing the store models of everything out there and you can't touch the sound for under 2k, that's right. I will miss the old gal but she went into good hands and will be well taken care of.

[Mike McCoy]

Good story Vince. I can relate to it with some of the fine instruments I have been lucky enough to have had and sold. So far I'm hangin on to my KM1000 though.

[Joe Singleton]

Hi Vince- The serial on the Km-1000 is 009 xx. It is in very nice shape. Thanks for keeping me in mind from last year. I am now in the enviable position of having two Km-1000 mandos and I am going to take some time to see if one is better than the other tonally. I am going to put the J-75's on both for an even test. I do think that I will need to put frets on the "vince" model as the top five plus are done. The other one has replaced frets with fatter wire installed. I'll have to see what the local luthier thinks is the best move from here. Thanks again Vince- http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[doublestop]

I know that Sumi was responsible for making the KM-1500, but I am wondering if he had a hand in making the KM-1000 as well. This mandolin has such great tone that I think a master luthier had to have some input. Anyone know?

[Kevin@bluegrassbrethren]

I believe that SUmi only had a hand in the KM Dawg And KM1500 models.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

KM1500 owner/player here.

[GTison]

Hey Kevin do you know that for sure? I've never had any real literature or otherwise to say that he built only 1500's and Dawgs. The "Master Model's" as they were called started with a KM600 A model and included the KM1000 ,KM1500, KMDAWG, KMDAWGmandola, and I think some other mandola and larger pc.
that low number on the 600 causes some confusion to some about the other factory built models with higher model numbers like a KM800
I never have seen an article that gave much hint at Sumi or what he built. I would really like to read one. Getting info from saga is futile. But be that as it may, wheather Sumi made them or not, the early Jap ones are still pretty good mandolins.

[Mike McCoy]

I have seen old promotional material for the Japanese Kentucky's and Bowfinger is right about the Master Model lineup. The KM600 was a "A" model and as such a high model number for the "A' series. I've never seen anything in print or otherwise that designated that Mr. Sumi "only" built KM1500 and KMDawg models either but would be interested to learn the facts.

[Geno]

There was an excellent article about this in Frets magazine back in the mid 80's. As I recall, Sumi was one of four luthiers at the small shop in Japan which produced high-end Kentucky mandolins, including the KM-1000. I still have the article, and would be glad to share it with anyone who'd be interested.

[GTison]

GENO I'd like to see it somehow. find which issue it is I may have it. but is there a way to post it if not PM me and I'll give you my address to make me a copy or something. Cool.

[Mike McCoy]

Hi Geno, I'd be interested as well, I must have missed that issue. Let me know if there is anything you need from me. Thanks!
Mike

[Geno]

The article was in the September 1984 issue of Frets. I scanned it and can send it to you if you will PM me your email address. Also scanned a Frets Looks At the KM1500 from July '82.

[GTison]

Geno thanks. Very enlightening. Seems that a member of the Tahara family was head luthier and brought Sumi on board. I wonder why Sumi is the only one anyone ever mentions?

The models Mfg at that shop were KM600, KM900, KH600, KM1000, KM1500, KMDAWG,KHDAWG, KKDAWG, KH1300and some other unnumbered mandocello. Now There's the definitive word on what was MFG. there in and around '84. interesting to note that they used lacquer not polyurathane or something as some have suggested. It says they used a dovetail joint for the neck. And implys that the Siminoff book was used extensivly in construction. (though some things must have changed in my opinion;tonebars?) The article in my reading indicates that the tonebars in the 1500 MAY be longer than the km1000. But later in the article it says the tonebars on the F models are all 225mm long and on the KMDAWGs they are 246mm long. So this is ambigious in the article. I would like to compare a km1500 and km1000 of this period to see. My km1000 the bass bar does stop before reaching the kerfing, and maybe stops around the recurve of the top. In comparison to my new Fern, the ferns tone bars are almost to the bass "f" hole where the km1000's are much further in. Also on mine the tuner's worm gears are ABOVE the cog. This would indicate somewhat earlier dating for mine as they were advertizing about the new replica tuners with the worm gears on the bottom. Geno, I have a poster like the advertizementof the 1500 you sent. The poster includes a pic of the km1000 on it for the "mastermodels". Also the pic of the km1500 in the '82 'FRETS review of the km1500' shows the abreviated "K" in Kentucky. Mine has that too.

[Mike McCoy]

Thanks Geno, great articles! As Bowfinger has said this seems to be the definitive word on what models were considered Master Models and what Sumi's involvement was.
The article clearly indicates that the Japanese Master Model Kentucky's were made in a small shop manned by 4 luthiers of which Sumi was one.

[GTison]

I wonder if there is 'more to the story' after 1984. Like, if the rest quit or Sumi became the supervisor or something? Also it's very interesting about the grassland models.

[Mike McCoy]

There's probably somebody out there that knows the rest of that time frames history. Its just getting to them and trying to get them to talk. Yeah I wonder if there was any differance in the Grassland model and the first Kentucky other than the name. Over time there seems to be small changes like different tuners, inlays and tailpiece covers but it seems that they kept to the basic construction and overall quality from beginning to end if you listen to the many satisfied pickers.

[GTison]

Have you guys seen the new mandolins sumi has made for 1st Quality? I saw them last summer. They were quite nice. The neck still sits up "out of the mandolin" a bit like the Kentuckys. but the bridge height wasn't as high. Very nice mandolins. (Tho I bought a new Fern gib.) I did a seasrch on google and saw one Grassland in Japan for about 650 bucks American. I would wonder about those too.

[Mike McCoy]

Yeah I saw the "Sullivans" he made for them as well as his own "Sumi" model the last time I went to FQMS. They all looked good to me as well. I didnt try anything out while I was there. I didnt want to have to deal with the onset of MAS. I have picked Mike B.'s Sumi and really liked it.
If the Grassland is anything like the Kentucky's that I've played thats a real good price, of course shipping might be a bit hefty if it came via Japan.

[GTison]

we were talking about the price on them on the other thread but theres one on ebay now. that looks like an old one to me.

[GTison]

CHECK OUT that short tailed "K", velvet case interior, XXX XX number style , low number too, position of "Kentucky" I just looks older than early 90's to me. I'd give more for the old one than the newer korean? KM1000 also on ebay. 'course if I ever sell mine (which is not out of the question) I'll try here first. Or try to sell it to the man that bought the last one from me.

[Joe Singleton]

Hey Vince- Give me a call if you still have my number. I am going to sell one of the KM-1000's and wanted to give you first right of refusal if you want to have it back. I tried to email, but it came back undeliverable. Hope to hear from you soon. Thank-Joe

[Lee]

I recently sold a Kentucky Dawg A-style mandola for just shy of USD $2000 in really really very good great condition. Both of us are happy.

[Mike McCoy]

I just played a Sumi 3 point F5 and a "Sullivan" by Sumi today at FQMS, both sounded good and the workmanship was top drawer, I favored the 3 point tone wise at this point. Had a great time pickin all the mando's at FQMS, those folks are great and although there was talk nobody tried to throw me out.

[GTison]

goin to bean blossom nex week ... might get to stop there, our banjo guy is bout to die to anyway.

[Mike McCoy]

Have a good one at Bean Blossom and if you get the chance FQMS is worth the visit no matter what you play. FQMS will probably have there tent set up at Bean Blossom so you might keep an eye out there.

[GTison]

I put a new bridge top on my KM1000. It was wider and just about as tall it added some bass to the mandolin. I think that is neat. I'm gonna put the saddle top on my new Fern if it will fit to see if it will add treble to it.

[Aehle]

Thought I should revive this post while looking for information about early Kentucky Mandolins. I just picked up a 84 Kentucky KM-1000 (sn 84.9.34) and it is one fine mando! The peghead looks like the one early in thread. Anyone know that they are worth these days?
Are you KM-1000 still out there?

[doublestop]

Not sure what they are worth, but I paid about 1400.00 for mine (the one in the post) about a year ago. I wouldn't give it up for anything!!!!

[Desert Rose]

Im glad this post got revived.

I can fill in some information and some misinformation

The Kentucky project was started and a team assembled led by the older Tahara san. Sumi was brought on early in ther formation of the team having just graduated from an elite Japanese woodcarving school. He originally started his relationship with Saga by being the first builder of the Goldstar banjos but dropped that when the offer came to build mandolins, as the mandolin is what spoke to his artistic abilities.

When the team was disbanded and Sumi became the sole builder he was building the 900 1000 1500 and the Dawgs.

The Dawg project ended naturally, Sumi built the last couple of Dawgs when I met him in about mid 1990. He stopped building the 900 mandolins due to economics, Saga was trying to get him to reduce his price to them and at the same time raise the retail. This same thing happened not long after with the 1000. The only difference between the 1000 and 1500 was the quality of the wood used, the building was the same though they asked him to reduce his prices which he couldnt do. Finally in about mid 1992 he was forced by economics to stop all Kentucky building and in 1993 the first Sumi brand mandolins and acoustic guitars appeared

Grassland was also a brand built by Sumi and are equal to the Kentucky 1000 and 1500 He also built another Japanese brand Fields.

The Saga relationship was revived briefly a couple of years ago when Sumi was contacted to build the 25 annaversary Kentucky, he built a small quantity, then again economics entered into it and it was necessary to stop

Hope this helps

Scott

[GTison]

since there was a team of luthiers, What ever happened to the Tahara family? Do they still build mandolins? What year did Sumi start building mandolins? I remember when the KMs price started to climb. I believed the exchange rate was partly to blame and also the reason for the factory move to korea.

[Jeff Hoelter]

Here is the FRETS article:
http://www.vintagemandolin.com/kentuckyarticlepage1.html


Jeff

[GTison]

I searched again today. Elderly has a KM1000 they say is 1990's. But I think it's older than that. It's got a short tail on the "K" and the worm gear on the tuners is above the cog. I wonder since this thread was started if BlueGT sold his? This one has a similar serial number as the one he mentioned early in the thread too. I don't know what to make of the serial numbers. ... they must have started a few different systems over the years.

[Desert Rose]

The elder Tahara died about eight years agi I knew him.

His son was really shaken when the Kentucky project ended and hasnt toughed a stringed instrument since that day.

Sumi was a founding member of the team along with the other major members, Ill ask him tomorrow when that was.

Scott

[Joe Singleton]

Just to update I did indeed sell the 2 Km1000's I had. Nice instruments but neither the real gem that some seem to be. I have played seveal that were a cut above and as with any wood creation, some are better, some exceptional. No hijack intended, but having escalated to the MF collings I'm not looking back. I still beleive that the Japanese made KM1000 is one of the best deals going even with the prices going up a bit. -Joe http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[kudzugypsy]

happy owner of a 87 KM-1500...luckily, i stumbled on this one in 89, didnt know squat about mandos, traded a dud 70's martin for it. it has provided me many years of enjoyment and although i have moved up in the mando food chain, you could never pry that one from my fingers. its the one people at jams keep looking at the headstock with the expression on their face.."NO, that really cant be a KENTUCKY!!"

[poopsidoo]

Guys, was facinated with your posts. I have a 1988 KM-850. I love it, and although it is not a master model, I wonder what it is worth?

[Mike McCoy]

I think Gruhn has a KM800 for $1000.

[GTison]

That seems like a stretch for a used KM800 but because of the demand for the Japanese made Kentuckys that is prob. the price. i think if i was gonna buy it I'd definitely want to play it first. You could have several different current makers mandos which I'd bet are better. I saw a KM180B Jap made some where for about $ 250 that would be a better buy IMO.

[fatt-dad]

So, the question on my mind is whether all of the 5 digit serial numbers in the entire Kentucky line are Japanese vintage. I have bought and sold a few and for sure there are longer serial numbers in the Korean/Chinese era, but is a five digit serial number specifically Japanese?

Comments?

f-d

[GTison]

I don't know. I've never heard any difinative word on it. I'd like to know, but you can't get any info from Saga. I know only the few who have told what the serial number on their own mandolin is. I'm not even sure if the five digit numberiing system was on any of the factory models. Have you seen 5 digit numbers on Factory models Fatt-dad? I've been putting things together like short tail "k" tuners cogs above the post (on earlier ones) , the 5 digit number (on some), and some with the year number in the serial number. But all these really don't make complete sense from the outside looking in. Some information from the Saga Company as to why they numbered the way they did is needed. The one at Elderly right now looks older than 90s as an illustratioin.

[fatt-dad]

I have an old KM-250s that has a 5-digit serial number and made in Japan. I sold a KM-180s with a 5 digit serial number (also Japanese). I have a KM-160s with a more-than-five digit serial number, it's newer and I think it's Korean (if it was in front of me right now, I'd tell you what the serial number is, but it is likely 8 or 9 digits long). I've never looked at any f-style Kentucky mandolins, but just my observations from the few "lower-end" solid (top) Kentuckys that I've owned/sold.

Yeah, not much help at Saga.

f-d

[poopsidoo]

Has anyone ever seen any other KM850 or any mando with "The Kentucky" on the head stock?

[GTison]

I have a '88 saga catalog. The pic in there doesn't have "the" on it. Does it have the little tabs down where the neck joins the body? or, does binding of the body just end under the neck. It should have a traditional "fern" inlay and dots on the fingerboard according to the catalog.

[Desert Rose]

I was over at Sumi's shop today discussing a custom project we have going and I asked him about the Kentucky serial numbers

He shook his head and said that they went thru a number of different systems while he was building the mandolins and its so confussing that he could offer no advice as far as making any sense out of them

Scott

[GTison]

There's a word of authority! It is kinda like I thought.

[Fretbear]

Just for the archivists, I had a Japanese Kentucky KM-1000, serial #84-6-17,
which was made in summer of 1984. They had stock rosewood bridges and could be improved with a fine ebony bridge.

[Markelberry]

I contacted Saga and they told me when my Kentucky was made and what it retailed for at that time.

[GTison]

Well.... when was it made? What was the serial number. What model is it?

[Roachcoach]

Has anyone ever seen any other KM850 or any mando with "The Kentucky" on the head stock?
Poopsidoo The only Kentucky I've seen with The Kentucky on the headstock is my 85 KM-1500

[poopsidoo]

Roachcoach,
Yes, my 850 has The Kentucky on the headstock. I wasnt sure I understood bowfingers question. The body binding goes around the heel of the neck I see no "buttons".
This makes me wonder if mine is more rare. It plays great, but I have that high place at the 12th fret. Not sure what to do about it, short of raising the bridge. I need to find a good set up person. The volume is great. Now if I could only improve in my playing...

[poopsidoo]

PS my KM850 made in 1985 per Saga serial number 16785

[poopsidoo]

Hey--perhaps 1985 was the year they used "The Kentucky"?

[GTison]

"Buttons"?

[poopsidoo]

Sorry bowfinger. I should have said Tabs. don;t know where buttons came from. But not sure I know what you mean by tabs.

[GTison]

I am not too adept at describing what I am talking about here. #I don't know the proper name for it. #

I was asking about the place where binding separates the neck and the fingerboard extension. #This is the peice that is under the fingerboard extension. # It is the little peice of wood that has binding in it from the sound board to the side of the fingerboard. #One of these is between the top side of the scroll and the fingerboard, if yours has one. # I know the KM 1000 and 1500s have this but I didn't know if the 850 did. # The KM1000 and 1500 were supposed to be "Loar copys". #I think the rest had more of the seventys style of neck joint and neck to body construction; as in a one peice neck all the way to the fretboard extension. # I usually call these little "ramps" "ears" #and "tabs" .

[poopsidoo]

Well, as well as I can follow you (and not being familiar with the Loar, unfortunately), I do see a small indentation where the fingerboard ext. starts, indicating a separate piece of wood being used under the ext. What does this tell you about my instrument?

[GTison]

I guess really it just tells that the neck is constructed differently than the other models. I think I just wondered if it had " The " if it might have been a something really different than the run of the mill KM850. But since i started it I guess I'll keep trying... Go to the classified. Look at the "Holoubek F5 Mandola - USED". At the 14th fret, see those little white lines that go from the side binding to the side of the fretboard on both sides? That is what I call "tabs". Thats a great picture of them little do-dads.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin....=browse (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=&query=browse)

[poopsidoo]

Oh, I see, Bow.... No my 850 doesn't have those do dads.
I guess with all of the uncertainty on Kentuckys anyway, I should not expect to be able to easily get info on whether other 850's say "The...". But it really doesn't matter--it plays and sound great. Thank you for all of your help.

[jim simpson]

I used to own an all black KM1000 Japanese model. It sounded great and If I had been smart I would have had the neck profile made smaller as that is the one thing about it that I didn't care for. It had the doo-dads.
I took apart a 70's period Japanese made mandolin (not Kentucky)that did not have the doo-dads. It did have a dove-tail joint. I used to think the doo-dads were an indication of a dove-tail but I now understand that the 2 features are not exclusive to each other. I cannot retain the correct term for the "doo-dads' but at least we know what we are talking about, don't we?

[poopsidoo]

yes, at least you and I do!
I have tried to search the board--is there a thread to talk about left hand fatique?

[GTison]

yes Jim I stopped myself short of saying that about the neck joint and do -dads. hand fatigue... do a search under "hand problems"or high action etc. ... my hand too! Gooday!

[Mike McCoy]

Fretboard riser blocks?

[AeroJoe]

Someone mentioned the KM-850 above...saw a (Japan) KM-800 at Gruhn's yesterday, they want a grand for it, but the top of it is nearly flat, i.e. top sink. Careful with that one...

[Tim Smith]

I have a KM-850 with The Kentucky on the headstock. Number 123xx I bought this new in mid 80`s.